Good link. I’ll check into these on my next range/gun show trip.
Thanks
What do I do? Depends on where he is.
If there is nothing between him and the nearest available exit, he can go.
If moving towards the nearest available exit means that he would approach something valuable - me, my wife, my children - then he will lie face-down on the floor and not think too loud while I dial 911. Whether or not I shoot him before he lies down is entirely up to him.
And if I do have to shoot him, I’m pretty sure he had that kitchen knife when I first spotted him.
Regards,
Shodan
I heard about this on the national news (TV). A homeowner shot a college student who mistakenly came to his house. As tragic as the situation was, legally he was within the law.
You can check out the following:
According to the article you can only shoot trespassers after dark. I’m guessing that means process servers try to do their work in the daytime. (Because how can you tell a process server from a trespasser? I’ve wondered about that myself.)
I knew if I kept looking long enough that I could find the actual Texas penal code itself:
Penal Code
Justification Excluding Criminal Responsibility
http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/statutes/docs/PE/content/htm/pe.002.00.000009.00.htm
If I’m reading this right and “movable property” includes your car, does this mean if you catch someone vandalizing your car in a parking lot at night that you can kill them?
While I respect your support of your gun laws I’d like to see the long term consequences of crime as a result of it.
I don’t have a gun at this time but my house is set up for the event of home invasion. I can retire to a defensible spot that allows me to fight a gun-wielding intruder with a bat. He will be as dead as if I used a gun so I guess my response would be to flee if my life was not in danger and shoot if it was. If I lived in a local that frowned on personal protection then they would have to retrieve the body from a nearby river. I don’t feel obligated to suffer a life threatening attack with a prison sentence.
yojimbo, your American translation was spot on so you must have a few Hollywood movies in your DVD collection. And that was certainly a chunk of change if you lost 100 movies.
Pretty much the tail ending of what Shodan said.
Get their attention, so that the entry wound is in the “frontish” part of the torso. The kitchen knife in their hands won’t fall far from the body, I’m sure.
If convicted, which I doubt (line: I was in fear for my life and the life of my loved ones) I will do the time standing on my head, as I won’t have done anything wrong by my own moral code.
YEah, notice tresspass is not in there.
Criminally yes you can kill them if you catch them stealing your hubcaps after dark. Civily you will get your ass sued off by their family.
My underlining:
The assumption behind this, the assumption behind the case I originally heard about, is that if someone is on your property at night it’s for no good reason. That college kid who was killed had not done a thing besides inadvertently trespassed. He was not going to be doing anything illegal besides the trespassing. The homeowner believed he needed to use deadly force for protection and the law allows it.
Don’t like the way the way the statute is being interpreted in real life, move to Texas (if you’re not already there) and argue with the state legislature. You asked for a cite. I provided two.
That’s an interesting point. Can you be sued for doing something legal? Yes.
Will the case be successful if your actions were legal? Not in Florida. (The new law here in Florida provides protection against civil charges. The dead person’s family can sue, but if it turns out that the using of deadly force was legal, the dead person’s family will lose and have to pay the defendant’s legal fees. Since I expect you’ll ask for a cite on that, see below. The law in Florida relates to defense of person. As far as I know, in Florida you can’t shoot someone for vandalizing your car in a parking lot at night.) Don’t know the law in Texas about civil liability. Since you bring up the point, feel free to look it up. Or to quote you, “Cite?”
Florida’s Stand Your Ground Law
Hell yes, I’d shoot him. Last time I had to deal with an intruder, I did it barehanded and naked. I exploited the element of surprise and gave him the mother of all beatings. If there is to be a next time, I want a gun. And clothes.
Nah, the nudity probably won half the battle for you. I wouldn’t want to fight barehanded with someone who’s manhood was slapping in my face 
I own nothing of that much value that I can’t just say to an intruder, “take it and leave its not worth that much to me.” But then I couldn’t say how much anger I might feel seeing someone taking my property 
I would simply shoot the intruder with my X26. No warning is necessary, and no worries about killing him or her. If I wanted to, I could then proceed to beat the crap out of the intrudrer while he/she was electrically paralyzed writing on the floor in pain, just to reinforce my displeasure with him/her.
–FCOD
Perhaps not. Perhaps just more dead folks.
IIRC, the person in question was inside their house. Generally the courts around here consider that reason to assume they mean you harm. He was not shot for trespassing.
I’ve lived in texas for 40 years (except for a brief stint in utah). I worked armed security for abou 15 years of that (both full and part time) and I had to take a 40 hour long class on precisely who you can shoot and why. I’ve also talked to lawyers and cops about it quite a bit. I’m pretty familiar with the law. In fact, I have arrested people for trespass before.
The cite you provided (Wikipedia doesnt count) but the actual penal code says NOTHING about shooting someone for trespassing. People who have done here over the time I’ve lived here have wound up indicted for it.
There is no provision in texas law offering protection against civil liability in this case. I can not prove a negative. It is not in the penal code. So I guess my only cite for it is the copy of the penal code you posted from…its not there.
Conealed handgun, and security classes in the state all teach that the likelyhood is that you will be sued and that you will lose. Since their cirriculim is not online I cant show you that. Come here, shoot someone for trespass, and see where it gets you. This isn’t the wild west anymore.
What he said. Give 'em a RACK-CLACK of the 12 ga., say “Hi there!” in a friendly, cheerfull voice, and then ask them to please not move as I just got new carpet and don’t want to have to replace it again so soon. Let them know the A-thauri-ties (pronounce it just like that) are on their way to collect them up, and ask the intruder if they want I should call 911 back and let them know to send the Coroner along, as well.
If that don’t give 'em pause, and they’re still intent on advancing further on me or into my home, then they’re either too stupid or too crazy to be allowed to remain in the gene pool, and I will STOP them with whatever force I feel is appropriate. And since I already have the shotgun in my hands (a Mossberg 500 shorty, with laser pointer and a nice, bright Tac Light mounted on the barrel), with a round up the spout…
Seconded. The one time I actually pulled a gun on someone was to defend someone else, and the prosecutors could’ve nailed me on breaking and entering, trespassing, and whatever it is when you point a deadly weapon at someone, threaten violence, but don’t actually commit violence (some form of assault). But the prosecutor didn’t press charges. I just got a stern lecture from the cops about the perils of intervening in a domestic dispute, especially a violent one.
Not I. Not for any deeply moral reasons, mind you. Under the “proper” circumstances, I can kill someone deader than dogshit and sleep like a baby that night. But I think violence for violence’s sake is sick. I’m fully capable of committing horrible violence (I think most human beings are, under the individually “proper” circumstances), but only to a specific purpose, such as self defense, or defending family members, even total strangers, if need be (see above).
As an independent contractor with some experience with how shitty insurance companies can be, I could conceivably hurt (even kill) someone fucking with my work truck; that’s my livelihood. The roof over my head and the food on my table, and few of my clients are understanding or forgiving enough to cut me some slack because the insurance company are being dickheads with my claim.
Again, seconded.
While I have no specific objection to anything bdgr said, I’d just add my IMO comment that I think your liability in Texas may vary depending upon locale (thus the makeup of your jury), and that you may see a wider variance in “decisions” from urban, suburban, and rural juries as to just how liable you are for the person you shot (assuming it was justified in any way to begin with).
Absolutely. I just wouldn’t want to roll those dice. From what my cop friend told me (and I take legal advice from cops with a grain of salt) that any time you shoot someone in Texas you can count on going before a grand jury even if there is a high probability that it will tossed. The cost of hiring a lawyer for that, and probably having to make bail, would encourage me to let them take the damn stereo as long as they left. My pit bull would have something else to say about the matter but at least thats covered under my homeowners policy. If they were intent on harming me or mine it would be a differant story. I keep a .40 cal berreta 96 in the headboard loaded with mag safe.
There was a guy not too far from here many years ago that shot a man in defense of a third person, (legally according to the law). the DA tried to make an example out of him and although the grandy jury set him free his lawyer and bail bondsman fees were probably well over 5 grand. I felt bad for the guy, he did the right thing and gets totally screwed for it.
Do you have a cite for that? I’m not challenging you, I live in NJ too and have been looking for info on this very topic.
Thanks.
I shoot, and I shoot to kill on sight. No attempt to apprehend. Aim for the center of mass, fire twice and then a third time if needed. I don’t wait to see what he might do; his very presence in my house has told me that.
There are sayings that have abounded for years. One of the most accurate ones is
I walked in when a man was robbing my apt. My ex-bf was with me and spotted the guy and screamed “what the &$%# are you doing” and charged the guy. Burgler had my patio doors open to place my goods outside and bolted through the open doors. My ex chased him and (in hindsight) probably encouraged the burglar’s inner Jackie Joynerness by shouting his intentions to maim and or kill the burglar, should he loose the race.
I dont think I would have shot the robber if I had owned a gun though.
A) I am embarrased to say it, but I sat stunned for a moment because it all happened so fast and it was as if my brain could not process the scene.
B) The guy RAN…and QUICK. He was not looking for a confrontation. (lucky for me-see A) for my cat like reflexes)
C) Unless I had the gun in my purse, the intruder might have found it already and used it on me. (He had ransacked my bedroom and all bureaus and I feel certain he would have taken any weapons found) Plus, let us refer again to A) for my lack of Quick Draw skills.
However, if you google: Jackson MS burglar shot- you will see that home owners here became so fed up with staggering crime rates that they have taken matters into their own hands. Burglars are shot weekly here.
A cite, no not really. It was more of an opinion based on the fact that hollowpoint ammunition is illegal for non-Law Enforcement use in NJ. You can find most firearms laws on the State Police web site. It seems to me that the laws here are stacked against firearms owners at every turn, so my statement was more of an opinion than a fact.
Personally, I recommend this site and any books you are able to find in print by Evan Nappen. If you ever need an attorney for firearms issues in New Jersey, he’s the guy to get.
I live alone and have a pump-action shotgun for self-defense. If the intruder is not in the room with me, I’d rack the gun to get his attention, give a warning, and let him run. (I’m sure he’d run if he was just a burglar - the sound is quite unmistakeable and very loud in a quiet nighttime house.) I do not plan on leaving my bedroom in that situation; I’d get the bed between me and the door and be ready to shoot. If he were already in the room with me, I’d shoot. I’m not sure what to do if they come in through the bedroom window though - the gun is under the bed, the bed is under the window, and the window is accessable by the deck. I imagine I’d have the warning to run, but I’d be leaving the gun and the landline behind me.
I do keep the alarm on at night, which has glass-break detectors for the rooms on the front porch (although not my room, grr), motion detectors, and door opening alarms. I have a dog, but he’s small and he’s put up in the laundry room at night. I live close enough to a rough area that I’ve put a lot of thought into this. I’ve gone to the range and practiced with the gun, although I’d like to put more practice into loading it in the dark. I do not keep it loaded; I’ve been known to wake up very disoriented and I want to have to take a few seconds to be sure I know what I’m doing.