One thing that came up on an All Things Considered piece yesterday evening was that while the officer had no authority to order* Sandra Bland to put out her cigarette, he did have the authority to order her out of her car - or to stay in her car, for that matter.
My reaction was, “that’s interesting, but how am I supposed to know this? What things can a police officer legally order me to do (a) anytime, or (b) in specific situations? And given that I, a pretty well-informed sort, don’t know the first thing about this, how are we supposed to know the difference between legitimate orders, and illegitimate ones?”
So those are the questions here: what can the police legally order us to do, what can’t they, and how are we supposed to know the difference?
*The police officer can of course request this, just like anyone can request anything of anyone, but that’s as far as it goes, apparently.
You pretty much have to be a criminal lawyer (or have the corresponding amount of knowledge) to know what is allowed and what isn’t. And even then, there’s a lot of grey area, since most law (usually 4th/5th Amendment doctrine, but it crosses over into some other areas too) is caselaw made by judges rather than statute, and as such, varies greatly from case to case as it usually comes down to standards like “reasonable” and such.
My advice in these situations is to treat the officer as politely as possible and go along with what they say, for the most part. They’re the guys with the guns and the whole weight and force of the government behind them. If they want to make your life hell, they will, and your recourse often will only be fixing it months/years later in the courts.
Some stuff you just need to know. Police can’t search you or your car without a reason (such as a good reason to suspect there’s contraband in the car, or they’ve arrested you, or they want to search you for weapons because of officer safety). But they’ll often ask - “may I search your car?” - and people will agree because they don’t realize they can legally refuse. On the other hand, if you reek of weed, and the officer arrests you for marijuana possession/under the influence and has reason to think there’s more in the car, he can search the car for weed, so don’t start screaming and yelling at that point.
It’s definitely a difficult area with a lot of intersecting interests and concerns.
Unless the cop is asking you to do something that can’t be reversed - like get on your knees while he shoots you in the back of the head - obey what he says. Don’t say a thing, and get a lawyer ASAP.
OK, folks, this isn’t about what to DO if stopped by a policeman. That’s a matter of opinion, and IMHO is thataway. Can we stick to what can be answered factually?
NPR isn’t perfect, but it certainly has its shit together a bit more than the networks do. And they’ve got a go-to guy on stuff like this who (IIRC) is now a law professor in South Carolina, and used to be a cop.
What I don’t like about the whole issue is we know cops can lie so they say “Tell me where you were last night night or I’ll arrest you for obstruction.” How am I supposed to know that is not something he can force me to do? And if I do tell him, it’s too late.
I think the answer to this question is really that you have to be a lawyer, and even that may not help you. Police are allowed to lie to you in the course of doing their duty. And some don’t know what the law is either, but they know they can get you in a mess of trouble if they don’t like your behavior.
You should really be following even unlawful orders.
Even - *especially *- if the cop is out of line, you’re never going to win your argument during a traffic stop on the side of the road. The kind of cop who might say “Oh, you’re right. I screwed up.” is the kind of cop who probably didn’t mess up in the first place. The kind of cop who has already done something wrong is likely to just double down on wrong, and that’s not going to work in your favor. Ever.
It would be nice if we could all just get along. In the meantime, the place to argue about lawful orders and Constitutional rights is in front of a judge, with legal representation. On the side of the road, you do what you’re told.
And let’s be honest: the more you believe cops are racist, the more you believe cops abuse their power, the more you should agree with me.
There’s that whole series of threads about “don’t say anything to cops”. They can ask you to identify yourself, if driving they can ask for your license and ID. Beyond that - I guess it’s a judgement call whether you are better off answering questions or asking for a lawyer (or “am I free to go?”)
I can’t possibly answer for every state but I know that here everything after that threat would be inadmissible. A certain level of deception is allowed but threats and coercion are not.
And how would you actually prevent it if telling the cop ‘No, you may not search my car’ doesn’t help? Right or wrong, at some point you get into “Stop quoting the laws, we have swords”-territory, trying to physically stop the cop will end badly for you one way or the other.
What does the term “lawful” in “lawful order” refer to? Does it mean - as the OP assumes - that the cop has the legal authority to order you to do it? Or does it perhaps mean that he’s ordering you to do something which is lawful, i.e. not illegal?
[Truth is that I’m not sure the term “lawful order” is part of the law anyway, so this could be moot.]
I would say you better unless you want to end up sprawled on the pavement with a knee in your back and a foot on your head, and a charge of resisting arrest or assault on a police officer. Tell the officer “I will not try to forcibly stop you, but I do not consent to any searches. Am I free to go?”
The real answer is if you want to refuse police orders and avoid consequences you probably need to have an extremely strong understanding of local, State, and Federal laws. You also need to accept there may be temporary (like a few days in jail and charges you have to litigate) consequences to your actions.
If a police officer tells you to do something and you really don’t want to do it, your best option for refusing is to tell him “no, I refuse to do that sir.” If the police officer indicates he is placing you under arrest you should adopt the stance of “nonviolent civil disobedience.” This may mean you let him cuff you and walk you to his car. If that happens you’ll probably avoid charges of “resisting arrest” at the very least. But if you decide you can’t bring yourself to do that, you should resist by simply remaining in place and refusing to move. This will likely result in you being physically pushed to the ground and handcuffed forcibly, then carried or pulled to a police car.
If you goal is to avoid arrest then you really need to know your rights pretty thoroughly in your jurisdiction. If you goal is to avoid serious charges but still assert non-compliance, then you should know that:
Police can almost universally ask you out of your car, if they’ve stopped you with probable cause.
If a police officer indicates he is placing you under arrest, any physical resistance will result in both physical and legal consequences. Even if the arrest is ultimately unlawful, the legal consequences can still be bad for you. Time in jail, money on lawyers, money on bail bondsmen etc.
The 4th Amendment is a pretty strong protection against illegal searches. If a cop is deadset on searching your car against your will, just saying “I don’t consent” but otherwise not physically impeding him will establish that you’ve not consented to the search. If he has no legal grounds for the search then courts will absolutely throw anything illegal found in the car out as evidence.