Thanks to the OP, I’ve got this stupid pop tune going through my head.
*You’ve served your time, now pay your bill
You owe us for that tasty prison swill
If you received our letter saying jail time isn’t free
Just write the state a check and make it payable to me
Whoa, mail in what you owe us for your room and board
If you can’t pay it all, send what you can afford
If we don’t see some money from you right away
You’ll be back in the pen
Serving time again
Don’t put the blame on me
If you do the crime you know you’ve got to
Pay the fee*
No, I’m talking about the part where you said being punished is a crime.
What do you suggest we do with people who commit murder or rape? Or even people who steal? Do you think we should just let them go because punishing them for what they did would be wrong?
I know people like to say “Oh, we should rehabilitate these people so they don’t commit crimes any more.” That’s a great idea - but do you have any suggestions of how to do that?
The reality is that rehabilitation is the core of the prison system. It always has been. Prisons were invented as a means of rehabilitation. Prisons spend more money on rehabilitation than they spend on security. Saying you think prisons should try to rehabilitate people is like saying you think hospitals should try to make people healthier or schools should try to make people smarter.
But even after a couple centuries of trying, we still haven’t found a reliable form of rehabilitation. We keep developing new programs and trying them out. But nobody has found something that will reliably turn a criminal into a non-criminal. The only thing that works is when the criminal decides on his own that he doesn’t want to commit crimes any more. All the rest of us can do is point him in that direction. But most criminals don’t choose to change.
So what do you do with the people who are committing crimes? Just live with the crimes? Give them a public whipping like they used to do before there were prisons? Exile them to a faraway colony? Or separate the criminals from everyone else so regular people aren’t victims?
So you were aggressively criticizing the sarcasm, then.
Also I’ll note that my sarcasm was meant to criticize the extra fees incurred due to being in jail, not the fact that we put people in jail at all. I’m super-cool with people being jailed in response to crimes. However there’s a difference between the following two punishments:
We’re gonna lock you in a box for twenty years.
We’re gonna lock you in a box for twenty years, and then bill you tens of thousands of dollars for the privilege.
In my opinion, if you tell a dude that he’s getting punishment 1, you shouldn’t turn around and slap him with punishment 2. And it’s not just that that’s a sly stealth increase in punishment; I believe that when the punishments are determined the people choosing the punishment (either the judge or earlier legislators) don’t generally think about the additional fees when they decide what punishments are appropriate for specific crimes. In other words the people determining the appropriate punishment for the crime say punishment 1 - and then punishment 2 happens anyway. (I’ll clarify here that I’m mostly talking about the prison fees mentioned by the OP; judges are obviously aware of some or all court fees.)
Let’s unpack this a bit. Each state has different regulations or rules on what inmates can be charged for during their incarceration. According to the Brennen Center for Justice, almost all states have some provision for charging inmates. In some cases it is limited to the inmates ability to pay. In some cases it’s limited to reimbursement of medical fees. In some cases it’s limited to reimbursement from funds that the inmates earn while incarcerated. There’s no clear standard policy and some might argue that some policies are fair while some others are less fair.
IMHO, blanket policies of charging a daily fee to inmates like the OP described in the state of Florida, is grossly unfair, and appears to be the most egregious of these types of policies instituted by states.
But the bigger issue is the inconsistency of sentencing across crimes. Yes, I think that convictions of poor non-white drug offenders result in a disproportionate amount of jail time compared to other criminal convictions. Primarily due to over-zealous prosecutors looking to build their case rate, etc. Begin to solve this problem, then the problem highlighted by the OP becomes lessened.
I’m putting down the prediction now - within 15 years the US will either have single-payer healthcare, or we will have mandatory organ confiscation and sale upon hospitals and prisons treating indigent patients.
I really do know a lot about this subject. I worked in prisons for three decades. And because it was my job, I’ve always had an interest in the subject and have read widely on its history and practices. So my knowledge extends beyond just my personal experience. I know how prisons work and what they do.
Sure, the first prisons were build as part of the Pennsylvania System.
You are aware of the Pennsylvania System, right? And the Auburn System and the Elmira System and the Irish System? As an expert on the subject of rehabilitation.
“I am my own cite?”, in this forum? :rolleyes:
edited to add: In this forum, you are not your own site-you are an anonymous source of opinion until you show otherwise.
I’ve been a regular poster on this site since 1999. If people choose to believe I’ve been lying all this time, I’m not going to bother trying to convince them.
I am sure you are an excellent source of information pertaining to your personal experiences in your field…but that’s as far as it goes. If you want to make broad declarations about the prison system as a whole(which you have), cites would be nice.
