This is for the Smashing Pumpkins fans. If there are none I guess I will just sit here in
What did you think of the latest Pumpkin’s release: Zeitgeist?
Many people I’ve talked to aren’t particular on it, and most youtube comments on it are awful.
Addressing the criticisms:
It isn’t the Smashing Pumpkins without D’arcy and James.
What? It was always just Billy and Jimmy, the rest are there for live performances.
It wasn’t “spacey” enough.
This is silly to me - yes, it lacked the dream-like quality of a few of their albums, but this is a new Billy, a Zeitgeist, aggressive and active. Everything on the album seemed strong to me. I am at a loss…I feel like I am hearing people talk about a different album.
This one came out awhile ago, yeah? I remember liking it ok but not really loving it. I saw them play on the tour for that album and the show was fine but it was kind of sterile and missing any real passion from the band. It just felt like they were going through the motions.
I grew up a Pumpkins fan, and when I heard “Tarantula” off of Zeitgeist, I was excited for what lay ahead. But the album is mostly forgettable rock by numbers, stuck in a purgatory of mediocrity.
The new(est) album, Oceania (from 2012) is better in the sense that it feels more genuine, a little less calculated, and a little more loose - which the AllMusic reviewer and I agree on.
Neither really stacks up to albums like Siamese Dream though, so at this point these additional ‘Pumpkins’ albums are more intriguing to people who must hear everything Billy Corgan does. Given all his antics and the loss of a believable angst, though, there are many many fewer of these types around than there was in the 90s.
I think Adore gets a bad rap. For me, that was the last solid Pumpkins album. It wasn’t Billy & Jimmy, but I liked the songwriting on it and the mellow vibe. I think it worked well. After that, they became a parody of themselves. Machina has always sounded to me like a pastiche of the Pumpkins, or Smashing-Pumpkins-paint-by-number. It just sounds cold and calculated to me, and the a capella part in “Everlasting Gaze” always cracks me up for some reason. It sounds like parody. (The Internet-only Machina 2 wasn’t too bad, though.)
And I’m not sure how the OP is considering Zeitgeist the latest release. It came out in 2007, and there’s been two-ish albums since (depending on how you want to classify Teargarden by Kaleidyscope.) Oceania is the last traditional album they released, and it came out in 2012. There’s actually a couple decent tracks on there, but I can’t fully get into it.
Machina was at one point early in its development conceived as the Pumpkins playing another band and that the band would perform the album “in character”. At the very least I’m guessing D’arcy’s departure led to dialing back the original commitment. I’m actually looking forward to the eventually Machina reissue, not just because it’ll incorporate the Machina 2 release in physical form at last, but because hopefully Corgan will explain some of the weirdness in the liner notes.
As for me, Oceania was a far superior effort compared to Zeitgeist or Machina. Other than Billy’s voice you do have to accept that the Smashing Pumpkins 1996 or 1999 or 2007 or 2012 are all very very different constructs even if Billy’s kept the name for himself for most of that time.
I would definitely agree with that. I miss Jimmy’s drumming, but the new kid is good, if different. There’s a bit more energy and “sincerity” on that album, and I wonder if it’s the youthful energy of the new guy that’s slipping through.
I’m going to have to give Oceania another listen on the headphones - I tend to miss a lot on speakers.
I have to agree that Billy his reason for angst is gone and that was his base, his rock.
Am I in a haze of denial here? I view Billy Corgan as a musical genius, way up there with the greats in terms of creativity and technical ability. Am I wrong?
Also, seeing as how 90’s alt rock came and went, what music would you listeners call your go-to? In other words, I love Classic Rock, Synth Pop, 80’s Pop, 90’s grunge and 90’s alt, and on and on and on…but my favorite? Progressive Rock.
Sometimes after a particularly intense listening session of Pumpkins, or King Crimson, for example, I will sit there in denial thinking: This can’t be over…can it? And it amazes me to think some people will never hear it.
Zeitgeist didn’t stand out to me as much as classic Pumpkins albums like Gish and Siamese Dream. I saw “Smashing Pumpkins” a few years ago at a small venue and it was a great show, Billy can still rock.
I think the Pumpkins and Billy Corgan were absolutely awesome from Gish to Adore. Billy could write a riff like nobody’s business, and I loved his densely orchestrated shoegazer-esque arrangements (mostly on Mellon Collie and Siamese Dream) combined with that classic rock and even prog rock (which I usually don’t like so much) influences. The Pumpkins had such a distinct sound to their music–nobody sounded like them, and to this day nobody really sounds like them. I love their mix of Sabbath with Joy Division/Bauhaus/Cure with My Bloody Valentine with Cheap Trick, etc.
I don’t know what happened with Billy after that, though. He’s been able to put out some decent stuff here and there (with SP and Zwan), but hasn’t been able to capture lightning in a bottle like those first few albums.
Argh :rolleyes: Good lord, Cherub Rock. When it explodes into My Bloody Valentine-fuzzy saturation, I had never heard that before. And he really is a great lead player.
Yeah, it is a fun tune. I love how it starts with the circus-like drum rolls, going into the Neu!-esque"Hallogallo" octave-Es riff, exploding into that shoe-gazery wall of guitar fuzz. That may still be my favorite all-around Pumpkins tune. Beautiful melodies, great orchestration, and a killer guitar solo.
Same here. I was a pretty big fan. Gish and Siamese Dream were great. Mellon Collie had some really good songs on it but it’s hard to fill a double album with consistently good material. I saw them in '93 and they put on a good show.
I haven’t heard it, but I can say this…I am one of those poor saps who was ‘coming of age’ when the grunge scene hit, and I am forever trapped in a fog of Nirvana, Hole, Weezer, Smashing Pumpkins type nostalgia. Smashing Pumpkins can never recreate the fuzzy wuzzy vibe that era gave me, so I don’t even bother trying to keep up with newer stuff from any of the artists I loved from back then.
Remember hearing the entire album on a local radio station the day it came out. What struck me was the total lack of dynamics:the songs just rode the same riff for their entirety, with none of the changes in tempo or volume that made their earlier work so distinctive. I don’t think the album even had a ballad, much less something like “Disarm”.
See, I can relate to that in the opposite way; I was coming of age as of all this was fizzling out, so I never really got the scene - I see the 90’s grunge scene in a different light, I believe. Surely you must be a big Alice in Chains fan as well, no?
Also, I knew Jimmy was a good drummer, but I read a few things recently that suggest he could be top-5-drummers-alive-good.
He would certainly make my short list for Top 5 rock drummers alive. In terms of technique, power, timekeeping, and creativity, it’s hard to argue against him.
