I’ve been hearing about this book for years, now I’m reading it (well … audiobook anyhow). Halfway through. My question is: should I bother finishing? I mean, half way through, right, so why not go all the way?
The guy’s philosophical stuff keeps going off the rails and, just before I say screw it, he will chuck a line of reasoning and start over somewhere else. So, that kinda keeps me going but I really don’t care about his mental masturbation. What is interesting is the back story interwoven into the philosophical rumination.
What I want to know is, is it worth finishing the book to find out what is going on in his personal story? I’d like to know what comes of his relationship with his son, which seems odd and strained, and the rest of his family. Is there any resolution? Basically, the narrator comes off, to me at least, as a complete ass in the way he treats his son and others. He continually implies that there is something wrong with his son, or that other people have “problems” with the way they think and this is done in such an egotistical manner that I have to think he’s setting us up for some sort of epiphany on his part.
So, could someone who has read the book drop me a clue? Is the narrator just a big jerk or is he leading somewhere?
Both. He is leading somewhere with being a big jerk. The ending wraps up why he’s acting in that way, and where he goes from there.
The mental ruminations are somewhat like a philosophy 101 course. He’s not trying to map out a comprehensive system - rather, he’s trying to develop a new attitude and perspective toward rigorous, analytical thinking. The section on “gumption” leaking out during frustrating times is an idea that has always stuck with me.
I’d say it’s a good college-undergraduate sort of book. Used to be one of my favorites, and I still think back on it fondly.
I read it a long time ago. I kept wondering when I would get to the part that made people think it was terrific. Yes, he is leading you somewhere, or a handful of somewheres, but he never gets there.
There was a comic strip joke recently about an audiobook. The dad said some parts of it were good, but it jumped all around, and he couldn’t follow the plot. Then the son came in to tell Mom that Dad’s player was set on Shuffle.
I had the same feeling with ZATAOMM, but I was reading it on paper. Should you finish it? No.
I found large chunks of the book tedious, but I do think the sections about teaching freshman comp contain some of the most brilliant stuff ever written about that particular topic.
I’d say dip into the parts that interest you and skim-read the ones that don’t, except I guess it’s kind of hard to do that with an audiobook.
We were actually assigned this book in my Philosophy 101 course.
I read it. Don’t remember a thing about it except that the guy was kind of an ass. But I think the point of the book is much less his personal story than the “mental masturbation” part, so if the story is what interests you most, you may be disappointed.
Yeah, I’m reading the same book right now, and am having the exact same thoughts as the OP. (Except that I’m reading it because a friend is saying it’s one of his favorite books, so I feel obligated to finish it at any rate.)
It’s easier to make the decision to continue with an audiobook. I listen while commuting so the time isn’t wasted even if the book is less than great.
I’m at the part where he is hiking with his son. From time to time he teaches his son lessons in a cruel manner, like letting him walk to exhaustion then pointedly taking the heavier items, forcing his son to continue then complaining about having to carry the heavy items. At one point they are climbing a hill and he begins to run. The son out paces him to the top then playfully shouts “the winner”. Our narrator has to tell us about how this is due to the son’s ego problem as created by the camp he had attended and their egocentric hiking methods. Sheesh! If he had beaten his son to the top we would have been treated to a discourse on what a weak hiker his son is, no doubt due to the same camp. I have to believe the narrator is setting himself up as a jerk to make a point later on. If I stop now it will be with a bitter taste still in my mouth.
I loved the book. I read it when it first came out. I like the philosophy discussions . The conclusion fails though . I found it a fun and enjoyable read.
I started reading it about 15 years ago shortly after purchasing a 1977 Honda 250 (the direct predecessor to the Rebel). I found it most unhelpfull in keeping the bike running but did take the part about the shoelaces to heart.
As I recall the book does lead somewhere but as has been pointed out there are no fireworks there either. I think the point was to draw up the conclusion in a way to make the journey more meaningful than the destination. However the art of the book is that the journey is not particularly meaningful until the destination is reached.
All in all not a bad book but not a “quality” book either.
It remains one of my favorite books. I don’t know why it’s “mental masturbation” any more than any other discussion of philosophy is. I also don’t know why you find him to be an ass in the way he treats others. I don’t see that at all. I agree that he never really concludes his point or finishes his metaphysical theory all the way through(in fact he continues working on it in the sequel, Lila, and in real life, Google: “Metaphysics of Quality” or “m.o.q.”). Regardless of that, this book has been one of the great influences on how I view the world, especially after struggling a lot in my youth with the dogma of western philosophy.
Stupid book, precious little about motorcycle maintenence, and I’d spoil the ending for you if you don’t want to waste the time reading to it. Not a full spoiler: Don’t get too attached to anybody. It seemed hippyishly dated by the time I read it, about ten years after it was first published, but I could see how undergrads could interpret it as profound. It has that faux-mystical thing that they love.
But I was a cynical 30-something when I read it and have only gotten worse, so YMMV.
The personal story is really just the vehicle for the philosophy, but yes, both are going somewhere. I have read the book multiple times with great enjoyment - obviously not because I didn’t know where the story was going. I consider it important not because of the destination or answers given, but because of the questions asked.
If you’ve got to the top of the mountain, you’ve already been through the DeWeese’s living room. If you didn’t get anything from the discussion of peace of mind, I think the rest of the book might leave you a little :rolleyes: . Maybe not, though. It’s probably still worth finishing if just for the story, I find it powerful enough.
It’s a complex book, I don’t think I’d recommend it on audiotape myself, but it’s one of my favorites. I found Catch-22 pretty hard the first time through as well for the jumbled sequence of events. But I would say Zen (and Lila) was a formative experience for my world view
You need to read it when you’re in college. It’s probably too late for you. Personally, I like all the stuff about motorcycle maintenance, but the philosophy is an eye-roller. I did appreciate it when we finally sort of found out what went on between him and his son.
Personally, I like all the stuff about motorcycle maintenance, but the philosophy is an eye-roller. I did appreciate it when we finally sort of found out what went on between him and his son.