I am very disturbed that Zenster has been advocating (and veiling) what may only be interpreted as pseudo-genocidal measures, such as his suggestions to slaughter innocent civilians, etc. Zenster’s bigoted statements and ranting range from suggesting that Islam/Moslems in general are inherently violent (but I did not quite get what point he was trying to make there), to titling a touchy thread, “Let them drink oil”—somewhat amusing, but not very culturally sensitive in these times of cultural tension. This is an issue of fighting ignorance in those who lack critical information but have strong opinions and categorical approaches.
Below are some samples of the inflammatory crap Zenster has been posting since September 11. I didn’t have time to comb all the volumes of long-winded, diffuse, and inelegantly verbose prose it satisfies you to churn out, Zenster, but I think the below provide ample evidence that you are far from an objective or informed authority on the subjects being discussed.
Here Zenster says we should bomb all Afghan cities and “Make the Afghani people suffer for their complicity in such an atrocity”. Emphases mine.
Over here he says, among other very suspicious things, that “decimation” of countries that harbor terrorists “is the order of the day”. He also says, rather genocidally:
Apart from the unpleasant mixed metaphor above we have, from the same link:
There is little more annoying than an arrogant and uninformed person with a rudimentary grasp of formal language, a love of diffuseness, and a soapbox.
Zenster on negotiation and honoring agreements:
Here Zenster discusses how to treat suspected terrorists: “No expensive court case, no dragged out trial. Kill them now.” Heh, Zenster the Vigilante, bludgeoning people to death using lengthy and unsound diatribes—would make a good comic strip. Anyway, Zenster continues with this comment:
What are the “Taleban governments”? And do you have ANY regard for the US’s well-being and long-term standing in the international community? Do you understand why these things you suggest are generally undesirable for the US itself?
The stuff here is extreme even for Zenster’s standards of the past month:
Emphasis mine. But it gets better. From the thread this demagogue mockingly titled Afghanistan: Our people have suffered so much:
The problem with demagogues is that they seldom know what they are talking about. You, Zenster, are very passionate about broad violence, but you demonstrate repeatedly that you are unable to comprehend that the Taleban and the Afghan people, as well as terrorism and war, are discrete. They are not the same damn things. They are not equivalent. When someone pointed out the obvious, Zenster replied with this stunning display of poor mental performance:
Now that’s what I call an extremely intimate embrace with ignorance. It’s also reminiscent of Bin Laden’s assertions on the US and its citizens. I also note that Biggirl spotted your bigotry right away and challenged you over it. Your response was about as valid as the nonsense you have been posting in your discussion with me: pretzel logic, ethos and pathos by the bucket, oversimplification fallacies, false causes, false analogies, guilt by association, not to mention red herrings, slippery slopes, quite a few non sequiturs, and enough WAGs to slay an strong man. You are a mess. Biggirl responded as I did, by posting a few examples of your silliness. Her version is here. Notice also, compared to the nonsense you have been posting for a month, Tomndebb’s much more concise and infinitely wiser objections to your post a little after Biggirl’s. Triskadecamus’s reply to you is also noteworthy, as is Tamerlane’s and several others. Not that you were able to address their points in a valid manner (as others have pointed out before me), or we wouldn’t be having this discussion.
Proceeding with that same thread, Zenster seemed to realize how inappropriate his earlier comments were, and he did some furious and undignified back-pedalling without really changing the nature of his offensive remarks. Well, Zenster, until you retract your several obtuse and uninformed comments you will forgive me for rejecting your poor attempts at qualification. And we can see very clearly in another thread how Zenster feels about retractions while he is busy spreading misinformation, in this case suggesting that the US is donating money to the Taleban. It’s not even worth quoting, it’s just a flat denial to a valid request for retraction.
So what is it with Zenster’s highly fallacious and insistent arguments? Does this guy understand that he not only makes an ass of himself, but that his uninformed assertions cause nothing but tension and irritation? Even worse, I hesitate to think of new readers who may actually be influenced by Zenster’s elaborate posts. Others pointed out and shot down several of his glaring errors in some of the threads above, and it seems evident that Zenster is not in command of the facts and that he not only embraces ignorance, he gives it a voice.
You should consider, Zenster, what the qualities of Bin Laden are: stubborn ignorance, forceful zeal, and a desire to get in people’s faces. In his sick mind, Bin Laden wants to make the world a better place when he utters such outrageous statements as “all Americans must die”, and “it is the duty of Americans to rebel against their governments, or they will die.” Well, I am sorry to say that your bullshit comes very close to sounding like a Bin Laden speech. You had best apologize for the several offensive and bigoted remarks you made in the last five weeks as soon as possible.
On the topic of Zenster’s sensationalist debate tactics: Zenster claims that “if Osama bin Laden was able to kill continuously at the rate he did in New York, he would surpass Hitler in just a few months”. Fortunately this WAG was challenged by mhendo, who also pointed out “you don’t do your overall credibility any good with absurd comparisons like this”.
On a slight change of topic, you posted Why No Excommunication?, meaning why are Bin Laden or the Taleban not excommunicated by other Muslims? I shake my head in disbelief, first at the gaping holes in the knowledge of one who writes as if he knows so much, then at yet another attempt to backpedal after Tomndebb pointed out the obvious. After that, several posters pointed out ways in which Bin Laden and the Taleban have been shunned or at least marginalized. Not that it prevented you from gaining any perspective in a later reincarnation of your nonsense in your masterpiece thread, Muslim Solidarity and its Implications.
What does Zenster answer when asked What if Bin laden is not the guy?. The answer: “It matters not”. Please see Rickjay’s refutation of such a silly assertion. I am pleased, however, that you did not try to back-pedal or qualify your answer.
In the appropriately named Screw Justice thread Zenster responds to a poster who was concerned that the process of achieving justice might also involve injustice:
Stoid’s reasoning stands up just fine Zenster, it is your reasoning that needs a heavy-duty wheelchair. As is evident from that discussion, you are more interested in your territorial pissing–leaving your mark of “widsom” all over these boards–than you are in treating seriously an argument with which you disagree.
In The Attacks Have Begun, Jshore rightly criticizes Zenster’s foam-at-the-mouth solutions. Zenster then takes offense and says “Just out of curiosity, jshore, what is your solution to this mess? I don’t recall you positing any grand scheme. Poking holes is much easier than formulating reasonable constructs.” Check out the rest of the exchange:
I let this bullshit speak for itself. Zenster then goes on to rape the reasoning process:
It should be clear to anyone that simply because we don’t know the value of X does not mean we do not know the value of Y. But I can see why Zenster’s posts are so wacked if he thinks nothing of posting such reasoning for all to see and deride.
Zenster goes to great lengths to try to come across as rational and informed, but an inspection of his posts suggests he is merely an angry and outspoken dilettante. The most obvious giveaway—even more obvious than his ponderous use of language—is the deep-seated conviction with which he posts his nonsense.
In the thread where I first challenged Zenster, Muslim Solidarity and its Implications, he made these blanket statements among many others:
He champions these and other assertions even though he is unable to prove that Arab nations are engaging in solidarity with the Taleban. In fact, he is unable to prove pretty much anything, his standard reply being that it is all the fault of the Saudis or the Pakistanis or some other group of people.
What nonsense, Zenster. Your insufficient grasp of formal language can’t hide that you are simply trying to incite violence for the sake of your personal feelings. This is the worst kind of demagoguery. And for the sake of all readers please pick up some Orwell on language. Please pay particular attention to what he has to say on pretentious diction and phrases, and spare us pain in the future. Your clumsy writing style actually detracts credibility from your posts, and I mean that in all sincerity.
I could post plenty more. I haven’t even discussed Zenster’s bristling debating techniques, but this thread is long enough and–with the volume of litter Zenster has been leaving on these boards in the last five weeks–that would require a fair bit of time. He does seem fond of ad hominem attacks, but those discredit him, not me. Zenster’s attempts to portray me as a supporter of the Taleban, a hater of America, and an opponent of democracy are reprehensible, but I will not address those here because I suspect that, when fired up, Zenster has little else in his toolkit to pull out in discussion with someone who does not accept his categorical crap (the offences mentioned are here. I’d like to close with a quote from **pldennison **(from this thread) that I thought was most appropriate:
Look things up, Zenster, and please learn the value of retractions and apologies.