Zinc and the common cold

[SiXSwordS]

@HolyFreakingMoly

There is some evidence that zinc, taken at the onset of symptoms, can reduce the symptoms and the length of time symptoms are present.

And there is some evidence that is does not.

However, the benefits of zinc on the common cold have been inconsistent, and a number of studies have failed to find any benefit.

That said, the stuff tastes like SHIT and ruins everything you eat or drink for the next half hour!

It can also lead to copper deficiency, loss of the sense of smell (when using nasal sprays), mouth irritation, stomach upset and it is potentially toxic. Zinc is not recommended for children. (see Web Md Link)

Oh, and it might not do a thing to help your cold.

For every study showing a positive benefit with zinc, there’s another study showing no benefit at all.

[HolyFreakingMoly]

@SiXSwordS

And there is some evidence that is does not.

It can also lead to copper deficiency, loss of the sense of smell (when using nasal sprays), mouth irritation, stomach upset and it is potentially toxic. Zinc is not recommended for children. (see Web Md Link)

Oh, and it might not do a thing to help your cold.

Thankfully, I don’t get colds very often so it’s not likely I’ll ingest enough zinc as to be toxic or create copper deficiencies for me. Perhaps I’m weaker of mind and more prone to the power of suggestion than I believe but I have noticed my colds lasting less time and being less miserable when I take even a couple of doses of zinc when I first notice symptoms. I do not portray myself as any kind of expert, I only share my experience. I don’t recommend for or against zinc, briefly, for the common cold. I’m also a person who doesn’t run to the dr for useless antibiotics as soon as I sneeze so I’m not a “medicate it” kind of person unless medication is indicated.

[SiXSwordS]

@HolyFreakingMoly

… I have noticed my colds lasting less time and being less miserable when I take even a couple of doses of zinc when I first notice symptoms.

The effectiveness of zinc as a cold remedy relies on frequent dosing during the illness, which means zinc lozenges must be taken every two to four hours.

I have no problem with your personal choice of cold lenitive, but is it possible that you were less than systematic in your observations?

According to the comment above, also from the Web MD article, infrequent small doses shouldn’t have had an effect even if Zinc were a remedy.

[Alex_Dubinsky]

@Irishman

@Alex Dubinsky

Most viral infections do not cause symptoms.

Cite?

This is called the Iceberg Model. Here is one source that mentions it: School of Biosciences - Cardiff University (Scroll to the middle)

@Cardiff University Common Cold Centre

Infection does not always mean a cold

Most viral infections in man produce no disease at all, they are ‘subclinical’ (i.e. no symptoms), despite extensive viral replication . The concept that the majority of viral infections pass unnoticed without any signs of disease is known as the ‘iceberg concept of infection’ as the classical and severe disease cases only represent the tip of the iceberg of infection10.

Colds are like an iceberg

The ‘iceberg’ concept of viral infection describes the general consensus by virologists that most infections in the community do not cause symptoms and pass without notice. At the very bottom of the iceberg we have the vast majority of encounters with common cold viruses in which the virus does not infect the nose or causes only minor symptoms such as short lived throat irritation and a couple of sneezes which are not recognised as a cold.

[Alex_Dubinsky]

@Jackmanii

Viruses don’t “directly” induce the symptoms of colds (our immune responses do)

See… you’re agreeing with me!

[Cervaise]

Yeah, Jack, knock that off.

[SiXSwordS]

@Alex_Dubinsky

See… you’re agreeing with me!

Yes, in much the same way that zinc helps you with your colds.

In context

@Jackmannii

… These statements are evasive, uninformed and/or just plain wrong, also including your laughable claim that symptoms “come from the mind”. Viruses don’t “directly” induce the symptoms of colds (our immune responses do), but this is not what you were saying.

[Fear_Itself]

@SiXSwordS

It can also lead to copper deficiency, loss of the sense of smell (when using nasal sprays), mouth irritation, stomach upset and it is potentially toxic. Zinc is not recommended for children. (see Web Md Link).

As most popular zinc cold preparations are homeopathic dilutions, you probably absorb more zinc from the pennies in your pocket than you do from a “zinc” lozenge.

[Irishman]

Alex_Dubinsky, thank you for the link. That helps me understand some of what you are saying.

You are differentianting a cold, which is a state of extreme infection where symptoms are present, from an infection, which is technically having the virus growing in your body but not necessarily exhibiting symptoms.

I also see the link from Jackmannii that discusses how the symptoms of a cold are triggered by our immune system responding to the virus. I suppose there’s a semantic argument over what it means for a virus to “cause” the symptoms. It is the inflammatory mediators that are causing the symptoms, but the inflammatory mediators are responding to the viral infection. It’s a chain of causality. Admittedly, there can be a level of infection that is not triggering the inflammatory mediators, so the chain is not inevitable.

But you still haven’t justified your claim that “colds really come from the mind”.

[Alex_Dubinsky]

@Irishman

It’s a chain of causality.

It’s not quite causality. The body ends up making a choice of whether to turn on the full immune response and the symptoms.

You are differentianting a cold, which is a state of extreme infection where symptoms are present, from an infection, which is technically having the virus

That’s not how it works. At least, the Cardiff University Common Cold Centre I quoted didn’t say anything to that effect. It said, “Most viral infections in man produce no symptoms at all, despite extensive viral replication.” It’s not the extent of infection per se that triggers symptoms.

But you still haven’t justified your claim that “colds really come from the mind”.

Ok, I probably did not use the best wording. However, what I mean is the body makes the choice. It makes the choice for two reasons, in my experience. One is that it feels coldness during an infection (and it isn’t exposed to coldness often enough to not react to it as a trigger). The other is thinking about having the infection. If I have a scratchy throat in the morning but then ignore it, I have a much better chance of it not developing into anything than when I dwell on the fact. There may well be other triggers, like stress.

I have half a mind that the body turns on the symptoms as much to fight the infection as to change the sufferer’s behavior. Or it does not turn on the symptoms to not change the sufferer’s behavior. Either way, evolution must have played a part, and the phenomenon is not trivial.

[Cervaise]

… Well, that was worth waiting for.

[Irishman]

@Alex_Dubinsky

That’s not how it works. At least, the Cardiff University Common Cold Centre I quoted didn’t say anything to that effect. It said, “Most viral infections in man produce no symptoms at all, despite extensive viral replication.” It’s not the extent of infection per se that triggers symptoms.

From the link you provided:

Most viral infections in man produce no disease at all, they are ‘subclinical’ (i.e. no symptoms), despite extensive viral replication . The concept that the majority of viral infections pass unnoticed without any signs of disease is known as the ‘iceberg concept of infection’ as **the classical and severe disease cases **only represent the tip of the iceberg of infection.

Bolding added. In other words, severity of the infection is an issue. Extensive viral replication does not mean severe infection.

[Alex_Dubinsky]

@Irishman

Most viral infections in man produce no disease at all, they are ‘subclinical’ (i.e. no symptoms), despite extensive viral replication . The concept that the majority of viral infections pass unnoticed without any signs of disease is known as the ‘iceberg concept of infection’ as the classical and severe disease cases only represent the tip of the iceberg of infection.

Bolding added. In other words, severity of the infection is an issue. Extensive viral replication does not mean severe infection.

The author had already established the use of “disease” to mean merely “symptoms.”

[Jackmannii]

@Alex_Dubinsky

However, what I mean is the body makes the choice. It makes the choice for two reasons, in my experience.

Your experience is as meaningless as any other set of anecdotes.

If I have a scratchy throat in the morning but then ignore it, I have a much better chance of it not developing into anything than when I dwell on the fact.

The rhinovirus virions do not care whether you believe in them or ignore them. They’ll replicate regardless.

I have half a mind

And it’s a terrible thing to waste.

Well, half a terrible thing.