I was getting ready to ask this question myself. My reason for asking is that I feel I have considerable anecdotal evidence supporting the idea that zinc has a real effect on the common cold. I’ve been taking zinc for colds for a while now, and I really feel the effects. I still get them, but I would say if I start a course of zinc early on, they are at least cut in half.
Right now my wife and I are both suffering from a cold that just hit our kids. Since she’s pregnant, she’s disinclined to try anything that she doesn’t know for sure is safe, so no zinc for her. It certainly seems she has this cold worse than me. Not scientific of course, but hey, it’s an anecdote with a control, sorta.
I notice that Cecil’s article is from '98. The zinc lozenges on the market (I won’t shill for anyone, but I’ve tried the two big brands) both seem to work. Some are still revolting, lending credence to some of the criticisms mentioned in the article. But there are some that are really no worse than sucking on a cough drop, and still seem to work just fine.
Anyone else finding this? Should Cecil revisit this one?
And testimonials in general are pretty suspect. Especially on a subject like this one.
Assume an average cold last seven days.
I’m just making up numbers, but if seven is average let’s say a cold can last from 4 to 10 days.
If you get a runny nose and a tickle in your throat and you take a remedy and feel better in two, who’s to say you didn’t have a cold at all?
If you take the remedy and feel better in 4 days one could say the Zinc had no effect even if “your” colds usually last 10 days. (You could have had a weak strain this time or a pernicious strain the last time.)
The point is that, given time, you will get over the cold either way and self-reporting is likely to be skewed by so many factors that — given the relatively short period of the common cold — testimonials are too unreliable.
I’m also suspicious of the idea that you have to take zinc at the first sign of a cold. If the cold lingers someone can simply say they didn’t take the zinc soon enough.
Study results have been inconclusive on whether zinc does any good fighting the common cold. From a recent (2007) review:
“Four studies met all 11 criteria. Three of these studies reported no therapeutic effect from zinc lozenge or nasal spray. One study reported positive results from zinc nasal gel. Of the remaining 10 studies, 6 reported a positive effect and 4 reported no effect. Intent-to-treat analysis was the most common criterion not met. CONCLUSIONS: This structured review suggests that the therapeutic effectiveness of zinc lozenges has yet to be established.”
Of course you can find people who swear zinc lozenges worked for them, and those who say the opposite. Anecdotes are inherently flawed as a means of establishing an effective treatment. To this day there are many who still feel taking vitamin C in megadoses prevents or limits colds, in spite of all the experimental evidence under controlled conditions that shows otherwise.
Here’s an anecdote: For the past few years I’ve been fortunate enough to have very few colds. During that time period I haven’t used any zinc products. Therefore, I have good evidence that avoiding supplemental zinc prevents colds. :dubious:
Here’s another article on zinc and colds which discusses both the inadequate evidence for this remedy, and the risk of side effects with zinc usage (including losing your sense of smell through the use of zinc nasal sprays).
Ahh, what other kind of response do you expect on the SDMB?
Anyway… colds really come from the mind. Not infections, mind you. Infections come and go all the time, but the majority do not lead to symptoms. Symptoms come from the mind (well, sort of. but in large part). The best treatment for a cold is placebo, especially right at the beginning when you only have a scratchy throat.
So… it’s certainly possible zinc makes you feel better, if not by some more direct means. Frankly, that’s not less valid. Of course me saying this might spoil this for you, but I’m saying it only to point out how dumb the people who talk about studies are. Asking whether zinc is better than a placebo under controlled conditions is NOT the same as asking if zinc helps colds in real life. And the latter question is surely more valid for practical matters.
P.S. The part of the symptoms of a cold that is not caused by the mind is caused by exposure to cold. (Again, this is NOT about infections themselves.) And so, really, the best defense against colds is to expose yourself to coldness regularly, which acclimates the body to this “allergen.”
Are you railing against the idea of approaching clinical trial data with skepticism?
If drinking flat diet coke and eating a half pound of carrots makes you feel better when you have a cold, knock yourself out. If knocking yourself out makes you feel better, knock yourself out.
If we’re talking about analyzing the results of clinical trials, some of which have diametrically opposed results, then the outcome for any one person is irrelevant.
There is a colloquial meaning for the terms placebo and placebo effect, but in a clinical trial it means something specific.
The placebo effect you seem to be referring to describes someone using a placebo when they believe they are taking an agent with effect X and then experiencing X despite having taken the placebo.
In a clinical trial, the placebo effect would simply mean that a subject that received the placebo had the same outcome as someone who received the agent being tested. Imagine a trial where the agent in question is supposed to bring people out of a coma. Obviously, the person in the coma has no idea that they’ve received any treatment and there is no expectation on their part that they should wake up.
I couldn’t have said it better myself.
Again, if flat soda and carrots (or whatever) help you, use them. But the controls in a valid study are not meant to be alternative cures; in may cases, the control group receives no treatment. Unfortunately, in the case of a cold, the control group gets better even with no treatment – sometimes faster than the treated group.
Actual evidence as opposed to personal anecdote (which may supplement but not substitute for evidence) is always expected and welcome.
Cold viruses don’t care about the mind. They’re good at infecting and replicating in your upper respiratory tract. The idea that superior mind power can defeat them probably has the virions rolling around in laughter. That might damage their delicate multihedral structure, but is not a reliable defense against colds.
“Real life” is full of people who’ve been abducted by aliens, see conspiracies everywhere and drink their own urine for “health”. If it comes down to believing a “real life” Shaquille O’Neal saying that a pain reliever works or on the other hand getting the straight dope from a well-conducted study, I’ll go with the study. Your mind may be directing you to depend on word of mouth from people you don’t know and/or whose veracity and powers of observation are questionable, but in that case question what your mind says.
It’s like the George Carlin routine in which he talks about the brain being the most important part of the body, then realizes that of course it’s the brain telling him that.
Colds are not caused by allergens or coldness.
To SIXSwords: It’s not clear to me exactly what the zinc studies in question did or didn’t do in regard to intent to treat analysis, just that they didn’t measure up. Incidentally, the Cochrane review of multiple studies (published in 1999) reached a similar conclusion as to the lack of convincing evidence for zinc’s effectiveness in colds (the review has been withdrawn pending a needed update).
You didn’t understand my terse words. The virus isn’t affected by the mind (well of course it is a little, but that’s not relevant to my point). The point is that the virus doesn’t directly cause the symptoms of a cold: the runny nose, fever, etc. Most viral infections do not cause symptoms. Infections and colds are distinct, if related, things. People don’t generally appreciate this point. It is the symptoms that are initiated by the mind and are subdued by neurotrophic drugs like analgesics (fever) and adrenaline isomers (runny nose).
The other things I said aren’t as to-the-point, just something to give perspective, something that illustrates how you misappropriate scientific research (slyly substituting “does zinc help colds” with “does zinc help colds better than other things”). People on the SDMB are cynics. Not skeptics. Cynics. And this point can’t be made any better than in the context of colds. For half a century cynical idiots tried to explain to the entire world that the piece of anecdotal observation enshrined into most languages is completely false and that cold temperature doesn’t induce colds. Absolutely fucking ridiculous. And was the original scientific research that prompted this conclusion incorrect? Not at all. It was just misinterpreted by people with an agenda to be smartasses. (The underlying truth in the data being that cold temperature doesn’t induce infections.)
And this is the utmost point. Science is not necessarily scientific. There is objective data, but inseperably layered into it is interpretation. A fact which cynics ignore in their self-righteous condemnation when they twist “fact” without realizing that fact can be twisted.
Zinc helps the common cold for the people who take it. Maybe the reason is trivial. Maybe the reason is just the placebo effect. But when you march in and claim, “it does not,” you are wrong. You may be ‘supported’ by peer-reviewed research, but you are wrong. Technically. Do you appreciate this fact? I wish you did, I wish you saw the disconnect between studies and the truth and your intended points. I wish you would see that nothing is as clear cut as might seem, even if data (often limited, specific data) exists. I wish you would gain some humility in discussing all these topics. I wish you’d stop being cynics.
This is what I meant when I jabbed at the SDMB.
One of the questions that scientific studies are trying to identify is the difference between
"does zinc help treat colds?’
and
“does stinking something in your mouth that has no chemical or biological effect on the infection help treat colds?”
The reason is that the ultimate question is whether to recommend that people take the zinc or not. If the zinc itself is not actively doing anything, then other questions get more weight, such as “what are the other effects of taking zinc?” (You know, like losing some sense of smell due to using the spray.) Assuming the answers to those other questions are benign, then maybe recommending zinc is okay even if the zinc itself is impotent. But it’s kinda important for doctors to know the difference.
I believe that Alex_Dubinsky was not claiming coldness is an allergen. He put it in quotes. To me, that signified that he was using it metaphorically. Coldness is a stimulant that causes certain reactions - i.e. runny nose.
What is a “cold”? Is it an infection, or is it experiencing certain symptoms? Allergans also cause some of those symptoms, but allergies are not “colds”. Cold weather might cause some symptoms. Spices can cause symptoms (think pepper). Does eating pepper constitute having a cold? If pepper and allergies can cause some symptoms but are not considered “colds”, then why is cold weather considered a “cold”?
Terse means “brief” or “devoid of superfluity”. It does not mean “nonsensical”.
These statements are evasive, uninformed and/or just plain wrong, also including your laughable claim that symptoms “come from the mind”. Viruses don’t “directly” induce the symptoms of colds (our immune responses do), but this is not what you were saying.
God help us then.
After separating out and discarding the inappropriate blithering, again you have a problem with definitions. “Cynics” is not defined as “people who know what they’re talking about and have facts to back them up”.
How in your lexicon did “true” get to mean “ridiculous”?
Alex. Listen up now. A “cold” as understood by 99.99999% of the sentient population (and at least 90% of the nonsentient population) means a common virally-induced upper respiratory infection. Whatever through-the-looking-glass definition you are applying is irrelevant.
Covered admirably by Cervaise.
I regret that science has treated your ill-informed speculations so cruelly.
Maybe you should stick to metaphysics. As Sherlock Holmes once memorably said, “Indeed, I cannot think why the whole bed of the ocean is not one solid mass of oysters, so prolific the creatures seem. Ah, I am wandering! Strange how the brain controls the brain! And that’s why I don’t have a cold!”*
*O.K., he didn’t say that last sentence according to objective evidence. But he might have, in some parallel universe to which we are denied access by cynics.
A cold is when I have icky boogers and cough a lot.
I really give a rats ass what causes it or if some crappy tasting lozenge will make it go away 2 days faster. At night, slam down some good drugs, a shot or four of Jameson’s and you can sleep through anything.
There is some evidence that zinc, taken at the onset of symptoms, can reduce the symptoms and the length of time symptoms are present. That has also been my experience. That said, the stuff tastes like SHIT and ruins everything you eat or drink for the next half hour!
