ZIP Codes and Phone Numbers of Many Lands!!

Factual Questions
1

I’m currently in a position where I do a lot of overseas mail, and make a few international calls. I’m confused as to the pattern of how postal and phone codes work overseas. I’ve just sent a letter to Manchester, UK, with a zip code that began with M and had two numbers, a space, then a letter and number and letter. Huh? The London one I did before didn’t start with an L, had a letter and two numbers then a letter with THREE numbers after it. I’ve also dialed the UK and the number of numbers I have to dial also varies, from fifteen to seventeen. And Singapore is all numbers, and Canada uses area codes like we do but British zip codes, etc.

What’s the deal? And I would also ask Dutch and French Dopers to respond, since I have to send a lot of things there too. It would help me to be more accurate if I could see a pattern.

2

UK postcodes:

The first letter or pair of letters identifies the city where the main sorting office is located. Generally, the bigger the city the more likely it has just one letter. The next two digits (or one digit and one letter) identifies the postal district in that city.

The next digit identifies the sector, served by a delivery office. After that it’s the letter identifying the “postman’s walk” (a collection of routes assigned to one postman), and lastly the unit postcode, which narrows the delivery area down to around 15-20 actual destinations. This of course depends on the housing density in the area, and can be as specific as half-a-dozen houses.

London, due to its size, is the most significant exception. London postcodes refer to compass points (N, E, SE, SW, W and NW). S and NE are not used, since these were assigned to Sheffield and Newcastle.

Large organisations can also get a specific postcode just for them, generally looking just like a normal one (apart from Girobank, an old national bank scheme, which has the non-standard G1R 0AA).

Despite all this it’s pretty intuitive. You can usually guess the area by the first letter or two, and the format is either XXXX XXX or XXX XXX. Most people don’t worry about whether they’re letters or numbers. Given how specific the code is it’s quite possibly to address a letter to Number 8, EH11 6ZA, and it will probably get there with little delay (although that’s a made-up address, which may be a large area with several roads).

UK phone numbers:

Regulated by OFCOM, the Office of Communications (formerly managed by OFTEL). Numbers have several main categories. In short: if it’s 01 or 02, it’s a normal number. If it’s 080, it’s free. If it’s 084, it’s local rate. If it’s 077, 078 or 079 it’s a mobile phone. If it’s 090, don’t even think of dialling it. Again, pretty intuitive if you leave here. Mostly. Well, apart from London.
[ul][li]Geographic: your normal landline number. This has evolved dramatically over the last 15 years due to an explosion in demand and a half-arsed set of measures that didn’t address it initially. Geographic numbers begin 01 or 02. Standard access charges, no surprises - e.g. my old home town, Farnborough, falls under 01252. As far as I can tell, the number of digits in your phone number is partly related to historical demand for lines in your area. Some remote Scottish communities have very short numbers with very long dialling codes. I believe OFCOM wants to enforce a standard format of xxx xxxx xxxx eventually.[/li]
[li]London: had “01” for all numbers. When demand went up, “01” was replaced by “0171” for central London and “0181” for the outskirts. Irritated a lot of companies who had to pay for new stationery, and it didn’t last long. As demand increased, London numbers were reformatted again, becoming “020” for all London numbers, with the actual individual telephone number prefixed “7” for central London or “8” for outer London. In other words, (01) 333 3333 in central London became (0171) 333 3333, which became (020) 7333 3333. Most Londoners can’t grasp this, hence you’ll see the incorrect use of (0207) 333 3333. This is wrong; the actual dialling code is just “020”.[/li]
[li]Other geographic changes: some other cities have also adopted this new scheme as demand increases. For example, Southampton and adjacent Portsmouth have switched to share “023”.[/li]
[li]Corporate numbers: start 05.[/li]
[li]Personal, mobile and pager numbers: start 07 (mobiles have “077” to “079”).[/li]
[li]Free non-geographic numbers: start 080.[/li]
[li]Non-geographic number translation service (NTS) numbers: sounds complex, but isn’t. Basically numbers where your rate is not location-dependent: e.g. a call charged at local rate regardless. These start 084 and are very common for things like helplines, phone banking, etc.[/li]
Others: 082 (internet for schools, apparently); 087 (limited to 10p/minute maximum rate); 090 (premium rate; those nasty premium rate numbers used by porn chatlines are 0908 and 0909); 118 (directory enquiries services, recently opened up to market competition); plus numerous indirect access prefixes used to call - for example - long distance telcos (“Indirect Access Providers”) from your normal home phone.[/ul]

3

More on numbering: http://www.oftel.gov.uk/publications/numbering/2003/ntnp_final_c0703.pdf

4

Dutch guy chiming in

Zip Codes
all dutch zipcodes are 4 digits and 2 letters. The 4 digits designate the city, whereas the 2 letters signify the street. Although I have never tried myself but if you only have a last name, street number (but no name) and zipcode (no city) your package will be delivered.

Telephone numbers
a few years ago PTT (The dutch telecom) streamlined the number of phone numbers. Basic format is XXX-XXXXXXX. The first 3 Xs are the area code and the last 6 Xs make up the number. Some larger cities might have more than one areacode but I’m not quite sure.

5

In Aus, all zip codes (post codes) are 4 numbers, with the first number indicating the state from which it comes. For example, all NSW postcodes start with 2 and Victoria with 3 (yet I have noticed that some of the new postcodes for recently created ‘sub-suburbs’ start with the number ‘8’ in Vic…dunno what is going on there…:confused:

Phone numbers similarly have codes for ringing from out of state. For example, if I want to ring NSW from Victoria I have to preface the local number with ‘02’, or South Australia with ‘08’.

There are also local prefixes for areas outside the metropolitan region (called STD codes). All metro phone numbers start with ‘9’ (or ‘8’ if you are using a different carrier to Telstra), but rural areas have their own…in Victoria they all start with ‘5’ (unless you are ringing the North East when the first number is ‘6’).

And now I’ve read back over this post and realise it’s as clear as mud.

Good luck working it out Mehitabel. :wink:

6

As evidenced by the above posters, the only rule is that “everyone makes up their own rules.” When dealing with international postal codes (not zip codes – that’s strictly a US term) and telephone numbers you just have to be able to take what’s given you and run with it.

7

Canada:

Like the USA, Canada partakes of the North American [Telephone] Numbering Plan, so the phone-number format and method of dialing are the same.

Postal code format is unique, but most similar to the British:

LNL NLN,

where L is a letter and N is a number.

The first letter indicates the province, territory, or region. There is also a two-letter provincial abbreviation. These abbreviations are compatible with the US state abbreviations, and do not duplicate them.

Let’s see whether I can remember which postal codes go where:

A: Newfoundland and Labrador (NL)*
B: Nova Scotia (NS)
C: Prince Edward Island (PE)
E: New Brunswick (NB)
F, G, H, J: Quebec (QC)
K, L, M, N, P: Ontario (ON)
R: Manitoba (MB)
S: Saskatchewan (SK)
T: Alberta (AB)
V: British Columbia (BC)
X: Northwest Territories (NT) (and now Nunavut (NU))
Y: Yukon (YK)

Logically, Nunavut should be Z…

[sub]*The provice’s name was recently officially changed to "Newfounsland and Labrador) from just “Newfoundland”, and the province abbrevuiation changed from NF to NL.[/sub]

8

A little more on Canadian postal codes: The first three characters denote a geographic area with a size about equal to (maybe a bit smaller than) a US Zip Code. The last three characters narrow it down further; in residential areas, a Postal code can tell you which block and which side of the street an address is. So, for example, RXX XXX is somewhere in Manitoba; R3T XXX is the southwest suburbs of Winnipeg; R3T 1R7 is my old high school, along with all the houses on the same block.

9

The nine-digit zip code indicates one side of a block – sometimes even a specific building.

10

True enough; I suppose I should clarify: When I said “Zip Code” I meant (like most people do) the five-digit version, not the “Zip+4”. I would wager that a good 80% of U.S. residents don’t know the last four digits of their full Zip Code. (I don’t, although I could probably come close.)

11

As an addition, not many people know (including those in the UK) that UK phone codes relate to the place name that they represent.

e.g. 0121 is Birmingham (where B is on the 2 key on a phone pad)

Some others that stick to this format :

0131 Edinburgh (3=E)
0141 Glasgow (4=G)
0151 Liverpool (5=L)
0161 Manchester (6=M)

01232 Belfast (2=B, 3=E)
01223 Cambridge (2=C, 2=A)
01625 Macclesfield (6=M, 2=A)

A surprising amount still follow this format despite changes to phone codes in recent years.

12

Wow. Thanks everyone! I knew it all made sense, except when it doesn’t.

Keep 'em coming.

Is there area code/post code snobbery? 'Round here it’s prestigious to have a 212 area code, which means you’ve been in Manhattan for a while; 646 covers the same area but means you’re a newbie. Top bragging rights apparently go a 212 cellphone.

Signed, 718 and proud of it

13

Don’t small towns have 1 postal code for the whole town (hundreds of homes)?

And, of course, don’t forget that Santa’s postal code is H0H 0H0.

14

Here’s my Irish postal code:

7

And these only apply in Dublin (AFAIK). The rest of the country doesn’t have them at all.

(BTW ‘ZIP’ is a purely American term, standing for the US Postal Service’s Zoning Improvement Program).

In Dublin, the odd numbers are north of the river Liffey and the even ones are south. There’s a northside/southside rivalry, with the stereotype of the former as rough and poor, and the south deemed rich and snobby. Dublin 4 (“D4”) is the “best” code to have. D7 is amongst the worst. I believe there was recently some scandal about some politician rezoning their friend’s property development in order that they were on the “right” side of the fence.

15

Yes. For example, my hometown’s postal code is S0K 0A0, and that’s good for, oh, probably about 1000 people. However, mail isn’t delivered to anyone’s house; it all just goes to the post office, and it’s not like you’d gain anything sorting-wise by dividing up the PO boxes into different postal codes.

16

Definitely true for postcodes in the UK, largely because your postcode can say a lot about an area - EC1 or WC1 in London means the very centre, for example. It’s not accurate snobbery, mind - NW1 covers nice bits of London and some very unpleasant council estates. NW3 “looks” worse, but I think includes posher areas like Primrose Hill.

It’s not really a big deal for London. There was a vaguely famous advertising campaign for BT when the 0171/0181 split between central and outer London occurred, with a gossipy old lady remarking sarcastically on her friend’s “outer London” number, while her friend was talking it up as a “greater London” number.

Mobile numbers don’t have the same problem. You can, though, pay extra to have a more “memorable” number (set aside by the operators), but most people would think this a waste of money.

17

Also car and house insurance companies use post codes to determine if you live in a high risk part of town. Just having the “wrong” post code means you can be paying much higher premiums. This is most noticeable at the border between two post codes . People just living one street apart can find themselves paying vastly different premiums.

18

Just to expand on this, Australian post codes (as mentioned elsewhere, ZIP is a purely US term) run to a general pattern:
**New South Wales (& ACT): **2000 - 2990
Victoria: 3000 - 3999
Queensland: 4000 - 4999
South Australia: 5000 - 5999
Western Australia: 6000 - 6999
Tasmania: 7000 - 7999
The Northern Territory: 0800 - 0899
Australian Defence Forces (overseas): 2999

The first two codes in each state’s range are for the CBD (downtown area) of that state’s capital city. So, 2000 is Sydney street delivery, and 2001 Sydney GPO box addresses, 3000 would be Melbourne street addresses, and 3001 would be Melbourne GPO boxes. After that, the next two hundred or so are for metropolitan suburbs, and the rest for country areas.

The new ones Kambuckta mentions are LVR (Large Volume Receiver) postcodes, and tend to be given to large businesses which receive a lot of mail. This is an 8000 - 8999 range in Victoria, and a 1000 - 1999 one in New South Wales, with the smaller states using vacant blocks of their existing range. You will see placenames in front of them (North Fitzroy VIC 8138), but that does not mean the place is using that code. It’s only for the business concerned. New Melbourne suburbs will still be receiving traditional 3*** codes.

When the four-digit postcode system was introduced in Australia about thirty or so years ago, there was concern even then that we would run out of codes, and that we should have adopted a US ZIP or UK alphanumeric system. Strangely, it’s less of a problem today, because mail is barcoded, and every address in the country has it’s own unique identifier. This system is also used in the USA and elsewhere these days, and may one day even render post/ZIP codes obsolete. It enables us to stick to four-digit codes, which Australia Post is keen to do, as it maintains they are much easier to remember. Aussies, the black barcode you have been seeing above the address the last few years is your address ID. The fluorescent one at the bottom right of the envelope is your postcode (yes, I’m enough of an anorak that I can read these barcodes without a machine), and the one towards the left is the ID of the sorting machine somewhere in Australia which read the address and assigned the codes.

Codes are mainly of use only for handwritten addresses, and for items that need to be manually sorted (although, as a sorter, I have several thousand Aussie placenames and their destination offices in my head. I rarely look at the code).

Off-topic, but the 2 for NSW and the 3 for Victoria, etc is a very old part of Aussie life. Even the radio station call signs conform to this rule. I think it comes from when the monopoly telco and the post office were all part of a huge governmental, bureaucratic Post Master General’s Department (which probably also managed the radio spectrum).