So, brought up on the temporary SDMB board were questions about BDSM. While many of the comments were value judgements on the participants, and often inaccurate remarks made about practices, I am offering myself up to answer any and all questions that board members have about BDSM.
My background in this milieu: I’ve been a participant within the scene since 1995. Beyond my first hand participation, I have also read up on the subject and written some articles on the topic of BDSM from the practice as wel.l as the philosophical angle.
I am not positioning myself as the BDSM equivalent of Ellen Ladowski from Rendez View. I have an array of people whom I can turn to for indepth information about practice in a heterosexual context, not to mention anything else that I may require assistance in answering in a complete and correct fashion.
So… ask away and I shall attempt to disspell misinformation about BDSM.
I have heard people refer to something as “Edge Play”. What exactly is that? My particular kink is mostly around being tied up, gagged, hands around the neck, etc… pretty basic stuff. Is this some kind of “specialty sub-group?”
Thanks BDSM guy!
While this is a whimsical question, safe words are an important thing within BDSM.
In a situation where a scene is not in a context of regular partners, it is considered manditory to choose a safe word. At certain times, there are two safe words. One safeword is designated to slow things down, and one is more of a panic button stop.
Where a regular relationship is concerned, partners may know each other well enough to not use safewords. In those cases, “stop” is considered enough, and regular communication is all that is necessary.
Edge play is a subgroup activity that often involves knife play, blood sports, and taking aspects of bondage to an extreme.
In some cases, this can involve such things as decorative cuttings on the arm to achieve scarification, using the knife purely for a threat/turn-on, or putting needles through the skin at a myriad of places.
This can also involve strangulation, and a variety of potentially dangerous sexual aspects.
Edge play is not to be entered into lightly, and should be proceeded by some research and a discussion with a play partner in a non scene context before hand.
Well, that question is a bit subjective. Where literature is concerned, what is crap to one person is gold to another.
Many people in the scene cream themselves over Anne Rice’s Sleeping Beauty series. I loathe those books for many reasons.
Exit To Eden on the other hand is a book I love. I think that as fiction goes, the book covers the psychological aspects of the desire to be dominant as well as submissive in a very realistic fashion. But, as always, YMMV.
I must say though, I love getting a question from a poster who uses the name of my favourite Fury.
Do you think some of this stuff is dangerous, and I don’t mean just physically?
Do you think that there are serious psychological issues attached to the more extreme forms of BDSM?
You use terms like “edgeplay,” and “Strangulation,” and to me that seems like a whole different can of worms than a little roleplaying for fun’s sake.
It seems to me that if you allow yourself to take pleasure in abusing another or take pleasure in being abused, there’s no way that that abuse can help but be incorporated into who you are as a person.
I’m trying to think of a better word than “soul” and I can’t come up with one. I’m not using it in a religious sense.
I see no harm in fun among consenting adults (I’d be hypocritical to suggest otherwise,) but I think there might be a slipperry slope here.
I guess the question is where do you draw the line?
Answering only for myself (because I said I’d participate on the temp board) here.
There are lots of things that are dangerous. Certainly, aspects of BDSM can be, but then most of us (I would hope all, but again I don’t speak for everyone) don’t go into things blind, so to speak.
Different strokes:)
That isn’t all BDSM is about. For example, if I were to be with someone who derived sexual pleasure from being whipped, then when I was whipping this person I wouldn’t be trying as hard as I could to inflict bodily injury; I’d be wanting this person to be deriving pleasure.
At NYC megafest there were at LEAST three people who used Arden Ranger’s flog on me. Once, and only once, did it hurt to the point that it wasn’t fun. Mostly it was very light hitting/whipping, beside which the floggers and I knew each other well enough to know what was okay and what was not. I would hazard a guess that the floggers derived as much pleasure from knowing I was having fun as I did from the actual flogging. However, I would say that’s a very different thing from taking pleasure in the fact that yeah, it did hurt a bit. Their happiness wasn’t derived from the fact that they were hurting me but that I was having fun. That it was somewhat painful was another aspect of it.
Each person, IMHO, has to draw that line individually. I don’t think I’d have fun having my balls nailed to a razor blade, but maybe that’s someone else’s bag. I do enjoy pain in many forms so long as it doesn’t get too extreme (which is, I think, a form of that line I just talked about). I know that seems like a cop out, but really to me it’s a question of what each person is comfortable with. I personally don’t have enough confidence in myself safety-wise to do something like nail someone’s balls to a razor blade, but … well, let’s just say I didn’t only receive the flogging:)
Yes, I do. I often have questioned people who wish to participate in such extreme things, and have often encountered what I see as major psychological issues. While I am not a professional therapist, it isn’t hard to see when someone is doing something that they consider pleasurable to something that someone does because they feel nothing unless they experience such extremes.
There can be. Like in everything else, there is a contingent that is not connected to themselves and thus are going to indulge in self destructive behaviour. That is no different than any person who engages in compulsive behaviours like alcholism, drug addiction, over eating, etcetera.
I have seen a prevalence for people to have serious psychological problems in that subsection. Not my cup of tea, personally.
Tell that to Michael Hutchince of INXS.
I agree that these things that fit in the realm of Edge Play are extreme and dangerous. I do not advocate them, and often have gently recommended people who want to go blindly in to experience their “fantasy” to see professional psychiatric help.
I have met a woman in the past year who was into being strangled. This woman was missing many parts of her Erector Set. While she was seeing a therapist, she got angry and stopped seeing him when it came to the self-destructive nature of her fantasies.
The problem here, IMHO, is that she took something that should have remained PURELY a fantasy and been hellbent on making it flesh.
This is not the norm, but an extreme within a lifestyle that is already considered extreme by outsiders.
Let’s just say that she is not our poster child.
Here is where there is a major difference between looking at it from the outside and knowing your way around.
Within the BDSM community, there is the motto of: Safe, Sane, and Consentual.
Under these three concepts, there is a lessened chance for abuse.
There is an expectation within the community that there is mutual respect between a top/bottom, master/slave, mistress/slave, democrat/republican, et al.
Communication is paramount, as is physical and emotional safety, as well as implicit consent.
Well, don’t get me on the slippery slope concept. I feel much about that as Bill Maher(whom I don’t like) does.
Just because you like being spanked and tied up does not mean in a year you are going to consent to being sold to white slavers. Or that you are simply going to be taken off kicking and screaming to the white slavers.
You draw the line where you see fit. When you feel your comfort zone has been breeched, you put a stop to the proceedings and do not recommence until you are ready.
While my concepts are in line with the current body politic of BDSM, these things only exist as hard and fast rules when you are involved with a group(which you can find in almost any area of the country).
When meeting someone who is not affiliated with a group, such as RCDC in Portand, Oregon, or the NYC Renegades, you risk the chance of someone being a predator and not adhering to the rules.
I never said any of this was simple or easy, but it isn’t looking for Mr. Goodbar.
Actually, I was talking about the book. Which bears no resemblance to the movie whatsoever, IMHO.
Just wondered, because I find Anne to be a little ahhh, over the top in quite a bit of her stuff. Well, okay, more than a little over the top.
A few D&S games are fun, but I know where my limits are and feel no particular need to test them. Pain is not part of my personal equation. But hey…whatever floats your boat, as long as nobody is permanently hurt.
The strangulation thing is a whole 'nother kink. That one’s dangerous, and should be left purely to the imagination (unless you really do want to die, and it’s a damn unfair thing not to prep your partner for). I found out about this in semi-related research, and auto-erotic asphyxia is a much more common way to die than many think. A good chunk of them are reported as suicide - which they are, of a sort. I’m glad you steered people toward counselling when this came up. It’s a pity sexual therapy isn’t a legitimate, recognized, AND respected profession. Of course, the number of Beavis and Butthead clones out there preclude that notion being taken seriously anytime soon.
I do have vague memories of a case where a prostitute was up on charges of strangling somebody moderatly well-known (some poet/composer/artist about a hundred years or so ago), but was aquitted after explaining that he was having a love affair with the cord, and she was merely the facilitator. For the life of me, I cannot remember who/when.
/slight hijack/
I finally got to read “The King in Yellow”, Hastur. Your username is no longer associated with Darkover in any way. Now it’s associated with creepy turn-of-the-century fiction. Better?
I have a friend who played a “trainer” in the movie. Go easy on him, like most actors in Hollywood, work is work is work. OTOH, feel free to take Rosie to task. You may also want to include the moron who thought that Rosie would look good in leather.
Does fisting fall under the heading of BDSM or is it a different kettle of fish?
He is blameless. I hold the screenwriter, the director, and the producer responsible. Your friend was just hired to do a job and had no content control.
Fisting does end up(pun unintended) within the realm of BDSM.
Some of the participants do not consider themselves in the BDSM area, but often at play parties there is anal and vaginal fisting with both genders on the giving and recieving end(still not a pun).
I’ve found the best works to explain the mechanics and safe fisting techniques to come from lesbians. Pat Califia and Susie Bright are the two writers I learned from, and I highly recommend them.
Contrary to myths and fears, one does not lose bowel/sphincter control if the fisting is done in a safe manner with LOTS of lubricant.
Fisting also does not have to hurt at all. In fact, fisting can be extremely pleasurable and can be an intense moment of intimacy between two partners.
Excellent thread, Hastur. It’s good to see you back at the SDMB.
I have experience as a Dominatrix/Mistress within a monoamorous M/F relationship. I shall be following this thread and giving input where I consider it useful.
Any decent hardware store is definetely a sex toy shop for those members of the community that get into bondage or any other numbers of things.
I’ve always thought that there should be a show on one of the smaller cable networks that focuses on home improvement plans for the discriminating member of the BDSM community. Perhaps a show could be done on making and hanging your own sling. It would be a good thing.
An aside:
Why are there not more questions? People seemed to have many of them on the temp board, not to mention some of the VERY narrow minded opinions that were posted.
How am I to become the Esprix of BDSM without an ongoing thread?
Now it’s associated with creepy turn-of-the-century fiction. Better?