Ask the Sadist

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
1

At this point, this is probably redundant, but I thought I’d throw it out there - there still seems to be a fair amount of interest in learning about both sides of this coin, and I’d prefer not to hijack freekalette’s thread any more than I already have.

Basics for those of you following along at home -
Robin Goodfellow and I have a relationship that involves an unequal power structure, as well as physical sadomasochistic play. The two of us live in a house with my husband, with whom I have a “vanilla” relationship - we are equals in power, and do not engage in s/m play or other kinks. (unless, of course, you count sarcasm as a kink, in which case… well, that’s another thread.) None of us currently have or are planning to have children. Robin and my husband are not sexually or romantically involved with each other; they are friends, but not partners or lovers.

I will happily answer any question about how my various relationships work, why I choose to engage in sadistic behavior, etc. I won’t ask you guys to keep it civil - either you will or you won’t, and I have no control over that.

All that said - ask away! If you haven’t noticed yet, I looooove to talk shop, so hopefully there will be opportunities to give a little more helpful information. Other tops/dominants/masters/daddies/whatever, please feel free to chime in - as well as bottoms/submissives/slaves/bois/boys/girls/grrrls/whatever. :slight_smile:

2

When you say you like to hurt your boy, is it a sexual thing for you and him, or just him?

And how did you discover you were a sadist?

3

I guess I haven’t been keeping good enough notes. I did not realize that there was a husband in the equation as well as a Robin.
So, which did you have first, Robin or your hubby? How did you introduce hubby (or hubby to be as the case may be) to the idea of you and Robin?
How do I put this nicely? Are you and Robin intimate ( in the conventional sense)? If yes, how does your hubby feel about this, and is he poly-amorous also?

One other quick comment. I have been impressed with how you have presented yourself and your lifestyle in the other threads on this subject.

4

I also didn’t realize you were poly! While I could never do it, I think it’s awesome that there are some (like yourselves) who are able to have this type of dynamic. Rawk on!!

Oh, I was supposed to ask something, huh.

Got any tips for using a flogger without looking like an idiot? I practice in the mirror, and while I’m accurate as hell, it looks pretty silly. Is it possible to look sexy while flogging, or am I just a big dork?

PS- Thanks again for your help in the other thread. You kept me sane.

5

It is both a sexual and a visceral thing, and it is enjoyable for both of us. Sometimes only one of us gets a direct sexual charge out of it, sometimes both of us do, and sometimes we both just want the connection and challenge that pain gives without cluttering it up with sex. Very often, our “harder” s/m play is separate from sex, to allow us to focus on that particular type of pleasure by itself.

I discovered I was a sadist by being forced to think about why I intentionally provoked people in everyday life. A good friend pointed out to me that I had certain behavior patterns that were obviously geared to get a rise out of people and make them respond to me in a certain way, and asked why. I explored it in-depth, and realized that having emotional and physical power was extremely attractive to me. That allowed me to discover that there was a word for what I liked, and people who liked having it done to them - which gave me an outlet that didn’t involve poking people with metaphorical sticks all the damned time, which I’m sure relieved friends and acquaintances alike. :slight_smile:

Your notes are fine, Rick - I hadn’t mentioned my husband before, because he wasn’t pertinent to the conversation. I felt that not mentioning him here would be intentionally withholding important information, though, hence his inclusion. :slight_smile:

I had my husband (hereafter Dermott) well before Robin. My relationship with him (from dating forwards) has lasted 10 years so far. My relationship with Robin is just approaching the 2-year mark, with 1 year of him living with us. Dermott and I were polyamorous for a number of years (a number which I believe to be 5 or 6, but cannot be sure) before I met Robin, so introducing him was not as much of a shock as you might suppose. Introducing the idea of him living with us was a little more of an adjustment, but we tried shorter periods (a couple of months here and there) to see how everybody liked it, and it worked out well. Giving credit where credit is due, this is in no small part because neither Dermott nor I like to clean very much, and Robin is a very helpful roommate. :slight_smile:

Robin and I are indeed intimate in the conventional sense, in that we engage in intercourse on a fairly regular basis. Dermott has no problem with this, in part because he has the same privilege with other women, in part because he is still getting his needs filled by my relationship with him, and in part because he loves me very much and sees how happy this relationship makes me, in a way that he is not wired to do.

Thank you very much for the compliment, Rick. I get the impression that mine is not a lifestyle with which you agree, but all your observations and questions have been just what I’d ask for, ideally: respectful, direct, and geared towards understanding something foreign. Answering that sort of question about habits and behaviors that I know are strange to most people really makes me happy. :slight_smile:

6

Wow! Just Wow! See I knew you were the real deal.
Why don’t we start with a kind of text bookish definition of Sadist for those of us not really sure what that means. I mean I have some vague notion that’s probably way off base.

What’s the difference between a boi and a boy?

Is the sadism thing like a whole separate deal than the dominance thing? Like do they sometimes take place at different times or is it always kind of mixed together?

Do you sometimes slip and go all sadist on your husband or is that a no go?

I just picture your husband smoking a pipe and reading books on world history while all this wild…stuff is going on. How involved or disinvolved is he?

Do you take vitamins or what? Who has the energy for all this?

7

Thanks! I am glad that you and Joe have found what works for you, like Dermott and Robin and I have. It’s obvious that you’ve put time and thought into what you want and how to get it, and that is awesome to see.

On floggers - have you ever watched Midori flog? If not, and you have the opportunity, do! She is the perfect example of what I’m about to try to convey in words. Flogging is a balance of using a stiff handle with a flexible, splashy tip set, so you have to work with your instrument, instead of against it. The best way to get grace while maintaining accuracy is to view it as dance - the flogger is a flexible extension of your arm, which is the focus point of your body’s movement. It helps if you have some background understanding body kinetics - how, for instance, a flogger hit from the shoulder or hip will be easier and transfer more energy than a hit from the wrist. Mostly what you want to go for is to keep your body in time with the rhythm of the flogger, so that your arms and legs are contributing to the effect (both visual and practical) even though they may not be the limb directly controlling the instrument right that second. It’s also helpful if you learn to be ambidextrous - transferring the flogger smoothly from one hand to the other is a fairly hard trick to learn, as is getting enough accuracy in your non-dominant (submissive? hehe) hand, but it’s worth it for the increased range of hits you get and the beauty with which you can create symmetry on your subject. It also helps tremendously (particularly if you’re playing to music) if you can create beat patterns that fit with the music. I have a huge pet peeve about floggings where I can tap my foot to the beat for an entire song, and every hit is right on the beat - that bores the crap out of me, hehe. :slight_smile: (not saying it’s wrong - saying that’s my preference) Being able to create patterns of sensation that meld with the pattern of the music is a great way to create a singularly intense, guided experience for your subject - using a faster hit will hurt more, obviously, so you take care in where you put them, but using the structure that the beat of the music creates to guide your creativity with your partner is generally immensely helpful in not feeling like a prat.

And you’re welcome - trying to keep a cool head among the flying accusations can be a right pain sometimes, as I am well aware. Congrats on not flying off the handle!

8

You misunderstand me my lady, or should I say mistress? :slight_smile: While I am not part of your lifestyle, I have zero problems with it. I am enjoying learning about it both from you and from freekalette.
After all, I grew up in the 1960s, where if it felt good you did it.

9

Who supports Robin financially?

10

Point of order: I feel it’s inappropriate to cast** freekalette** as not the “real deal,” by contrast. Nothing of what she’s posted indicates to me that she is in some way faking a power exchange relationship. I may or may not agree with her choice of terminology, but that’s both beside the point and not in my purview to pass judgment on.

“Sadist” is a very hard word to pin down, from a practical perspective. Generally, it’s defined as someone who takes pleasure from the pain of others. From my personal perspective, I narrow it down to someone who takes pleasure from inflicting consensual pain or intensity. It is perfectly possible to be a sadist who abuses and mistreats people, but that is not the topic at hand. I add “intensity” to “pain” because I feel it adequately conveys a broader range of experience. There are a number of types of play that may or may not be actually painful, depending on how they are used, and yet they fall into the common name of s/m play. So, for my personal definition of sadism, the addition of intensity allows me to put all that play under the same generalized umbrella, without having to go into extended explanations like this every time someone asks “are you a sadist” at a play party. :slight_smile:

Sadism is indeed a separate thing from dominance - someone can be a sadist without being dominant, or dominant without being a sadist, or both. Dominance is (very, very broadly speaking) the acceptance of authority from a willing subject over some or all aspects of the subject’s life. That can be for any duration, over any area, limited or expanded however the submissive and dominant agree is good for them. Simply put, sadism is about discomfort, intensity and pain - dominance is about power, authority, and control. They are often practiced in tandem, but are not mutually dependent.

Boy is generally used for someone who is biologically male, who presents their gender as youthful. It can be used by anyone of any age, as it is representative more of a mindset and presentation than a physical age. Boi is generally used for someone who is not biologically male, but presents a “boy”-type gender. The reason I use it for Robin is that he has a variant enough gender presentation that it seems more accurate to me. Many folks disagree with my usage of it in that context, as they feel it should be restricted to those who are not biologically male. If you would like more clarification on that point, I will ask Robin to step in to this thread to talk about his gender somewhat - he is much better at explaining it than I am, and I do not enjoy putting words in his mouth on so personal a subject. :slight_smile:

I do not “go sadist” on Dermott, though the mental image is pretty damned amusing. :smiley: He would not enjoy it, and that would make me unhappy, because I love him. So, even though it’s a behavior pattern I engage in, I wouldn’t do it to or with him, because it wouldn’t provide either one of us with any benefit. Dermott is very accepting of my desire to be sadistic with other people, but has no desire to be involved - which makes sense, because he simply isn’t wired that way. If he doesn’t get any pleasure out of it, there’s no point. So generally, I make time with Robin when Dermott is otherwise occupied, or we go out to clubs to play, so that Dermott can have his space and time to himself. He doesn’t smoke a pipe and watch - though, again, the mental image is hilarious!

I do take vitamins, but not because I’m a sadist, lol. Having a hard s/m scene is definitely good exercise (if it’s something active, like impact play), but it’s by no means draining. The effect is a bit like a good cardio workout - you may be sweaty and out of breath at the end, but unless you’ve pushed much harder than you normally would, you’re probably not exhausted. I am, frankly, a lazy top - I maintain that if it’s a lot of work, I’m doing something wrong. :slight_smile:

11

Sorry, Rick - general etiquette (at least in my neck of the woods) says that calling me by a title is presumptuous, unless I’ve given you permission to do so. :wink: I’m definitely not offended - I am not a person to take titles and protocol very seriously, except in limited contexts - just keeping you out of hot water if you run into somebody who does take it seriously!

Thank you for the clarification; it’s doesn’t negate the enjoyment I get out of your questions at all.

Robin works outside the home, so he provides most of his own financial support. Dermott provides the rest, as I am a full-time student. (I do work some, but not enough to make a predictable or material change in our budget.)

12

How much pain do you like to inflict and of what nature? Do you leave marks or make him bleed? Have you ever gone too far? How did Robin deal with it?

Could you be in a satisfying monogamous relationship with Dermott if decided he wanted one with you? Could you give up S/M in order to do so?

Thanks for your openness. It’s quite educational.

13

So sadism is primarily a physical thing? I’m a little disappointed by that although I have no idea why.

It would seem that your desire for having emotional and physical power would be more highly rewarded by mental stuff due to the transitory nature of the physical. Forgive me, I tend to think of all this in terms of Utility Curve Analysis.

So there’s often music involved during a flogging? What kind of music? I’m thinking its not bluegrass.

What’s a play party and how many are typically involved?

What’s impact play?

Would you or Sadists in general enjoy watching others inflict and receive pain or no?

14

God, for a few thrilling moments I thought you meant the violinist.

Edited to add:

I don’t know, man, have you ever seen Deliverance?

15

Thank you for starting this thread, as well as to you freekalette for hers. All I’d like to ask is are you also into domination? I’ve never been involved in any of the sorts of dynamics that have been discussed around here of late, but I’ve noticed a tendency in my latter years to be interested in it. So, if you don’t mind and it doesn’t hijack your original intent, could you tell me just the tiniest bit about it? Gracias. :slight_smile:

16

Again thanks for the education.

17

How much and of what nature are both dependent on the subject. Generally speaking, I like to inflict an amount of pain that walks the line between what the subject finds pleasure or satisfaction in, and what the subject considers just beyond their ability to process successfully. I like to deal out enough pain that it forces my subject to work in order to process it, but not so much that it causes the overall experience not to be beneficial or productive. (I hesitate to say pleasant, but it really is accurate in a lot of cases.) I have certainly gone too far on some occasions - either through misreading the subject, through not understanding my equipment or boundaries clearly enough, or just from sheer bad luck. Even the best sadists throw a bad hit now and again, and the way that I define the “best” sadists is at least partially based on how well they deal with those bad hits when they happen. I have not recently gone too far with anyone, including Robin - partly because my skills are always improving, and partly because I am simply becoming more conservative about all non-Robin play partners, and I know Robin extremely well by now. (and, to stave off Murphy, partly because my luck has been good; when you set people on fire in a public place, you prepare for everything you can think of, and then hope like hell you can deal competently and quickly with the inevitable randomness of having other people around.)

As for how Robin has dealt with it when I have gone too far with him in the past, generally it’s all about communication. I am fairly sure that the only times it’s happened have been with bad hits - my aim was off momentarily, or someone entered the scene space and caused a disruption mid-swing, or a toy behaved in an unexpected way. In those cases, mostly I immediately acknowledge the bad hit, and check in with him on how he is doing. Sometimes we’ll take a break to let him process and recover, sometimes not, depending on what he needs. Usually, he uses mental focus and breathing to get his physical and emotional balance back, to be ready to continue play. If the hit is bad enough that it’s a scene breaker (which I don’t recall having happened between us), we will obviously immediately stop playing, and I do a damage check to ensure that he doesn’t need continuing care for whatever may have happened. I have never sent a partner to the ER, and I do not forsee a feasible circumstance in which I would intentionally do so - however, I do play with dangerous things, and that makes me careful of consequences.

I do leave marks on him, and make him bleed. I have, in fact, opened up his skin and ground my tears into his still-bleeding wounds to make him gasp. :slight_smile: If it tells you anything about how we interact, my tears in that moment came from loving him so much only tears would express it - and using them to hurt him was the perfect way to tell him that. It was, no exaggeration, one of the most emotionally powerful moments in my life.

Could I have a monogamous, non s/m relationship with Dermott? Yes, in all likelihood. Would I? No, probably not. That sounds selfish, and it is, but it’s also very pragmatic. When I am happy, I treat the people around me well. When I am unhappy, I treat the people around me less well, sometimes quite poorly. I love Dermott, so I wouldn’t agree to a decision that involved me repressing a large part of my sexual and emotional identity, because I don’t see how that could possibly be healthy or productive for both of us. I would inevitably treat him poorly, no matter how much I tried not to, and I would choose to end the relationship (hopefully amicably, hopefully with us still expressing our love to each other, just in a different way) rather than subject him to years of my resentment and bullshit.

18

Your response to rubystreak was a lot to process so I’ll work on that for a while.

In the mean time do you ever come across people who just don’t care about pain, kind of zen types I guess? Is there a term for them?

19

Actually, no, sadism is just as easily emotional and mental as physical. I left aside the emotional and mental parts of it, because they can get very sticky to explain. I get just as much fun from making Robin hold his arms up for tickling as I do from actually tickling him - one is evoking emotional vulnerability and an intense mental reaction, and one is evoking physical vulnerability and an intense physical reaction. Both are sadism, in my book, although the “making him do something” definitely has dominance in it, as well.

I’m going to go a little out of order, for clarity.

S/m players often refer to “scenes” - and “scene space” and “scene partners” - and “playing.” Playing is generally considered to mean engaging in s/m activities with one or more partners. Scenes are the context in which one plays - when one plays, one is “in a scene.” If you’d like a rundown on the basic etymology of those within the kink world, please ask, but I know that I ramble on about this stuff, so I’m trying to keep it more concise than usual. :slight_smile:

Play parties, by extension, are social occasions where people gather for the express purpose of playing. That may be a small or large gathering, in a public or private space - “public” generally meaning a club of some kind, “private” generally meaning a home not used for commercial purposes.

Play is divided into varying types - “impact play” is a general term that covers a wide range of methods and implements used to hit people. (hence “impact”) That covers things like flogging, caning, body punching, whipping, and a number of others. Most types of play are named after either the implement used - needle play, knife play - or the type of technique involved - piercing play, cutting play.

Most public spaces that encourage play have background music playing - what it is varies by regional taste, but generally you can assume you’ll hear something with a clear beat, vocals that are not distracting, and that will blend well with other tracks of the same type. Although, I can totally see using bluegrass play to make someone scream! :smiley:

I do enjoy watching the scenes of others, both in a visceral sense and in an educational sense. I very rarely get a sexual charge from it unless I know the players involved. That falls much more under voyeurism, though, which is not interdependent with sadism.

I am also definitely into domination - that’s something that I can thank Robin for, mostly. Before I got involved with him I was very clear that I didn’t want to be “in charge” of anybody, because I didn’t want the responsibility. I went so far as correcting people who called me a dominant, insisting that all I would do was top. It is still accurate to say that I am not regularly dominant to anyone but Robin, but I will exert dominance comfortably over casual play partners now that I am more comfortable with the concept as a whole. Together, he and I have discovered that I enjoy having the authority he gives me, and that it makes both our lives better to set it up that way.

The concept of dominance (to me) is generally that one person willingly and enthusiastically cedes authority or power to another person, in order for mutual emotional fulfillment. It can be expressed in any number of ways - from things as obvious as “Bring me my beer, bitch” to things as subtle as Robin opening doors for me whenever it’s practicable. Both are part of a dominance / service dynamic, and both are equally valid.

If you have specific questions, faithfool (or others) about dominance, please feel free to ask. The floor is open to general freakitude, not just sadism specifically. :slight_smile:

(And, because I know that this is a touchy subject even for an anonymous message board, people uncomfortable with posting are invited to make use of my PM box if they would prefer.)

20

:confused: I thought those two terms were interchangeable. Educate me please.