There is no concrete, codified definition of the difference between top and dominant. Most people I know do distinguish between the two, in generally the same place as I do - but there are variations on where the line is drawn, and in some cases whether it’s drawn at all. From my own, personal, not-the-be-all-end-all perspective: a top is someone who is willing to engage in s/m play with a partner in the context of a scene. A dominant, by contrast, is someone who is willing to engage in D/s play with someone, either in the context of a single scene or an ongoing power structure. Let me reiterate that s/m is about pain and intensity, and D/s is about power and authority. So, you can have one or the other or both in a given scene or relationship.
Going by the common connotation, tops are often considered less serious than dominants, because there’s a generalized feeling that it takes less skill to flog someone than to order them around. I disagree vehemently with that view; I believe both require a very exacting amount of skill and care.
So, while I identified solely as a top, I would engage in s/m play with people, and did not engage in D/s play. Now that I identify as both top and dominant, I will do either s/m or D/s, or both.
How sought after are SM dominant women? Are you a rarer commodity in the SM world then a sub guy would be?
I ask because I occasionally see ads for even mainstream brothels that will advertise they have a dominant mistress available, indicating there’s a large demand for such. Unless, of course, all other prostitutes are supposed to be subs, in the “I paid, so do as I tell you” way.
That’s actually a fairly hard question to answer, so I’ll take it from two angles. First, the common perception is that femdommes (or dommes, or dominatrices, or femtops, or whatever other word is in vogue these days) are an extremely valuable commodity - so much so that submissive straight men often become very discouraged in trying to connect with one without a previous reference. However, I think that the common perception is somewhat skewed - mostly because all the dominant / toppy / whatever women I know are always bemoaning the lack of good submissives. Yes, there are many would-be male subjects for each would-be female top. (Take top in this context to mean any top / dominant / whatever identifier) However, very often the would-be male subjects have a lot of preconceived notions about how the top “should” be, which leads to very few successful matches. A picky woman (like me) can go for years between regular play partners, despite her “valuable commodity” status - just because the people who volunteer to be her subjects are incompatible with her desires.
So, on one hand, you have the straight numbers ratio, which does indeed favor female tops. On the other hand, you have the percentage of successful matches, which indicates that it is just as difficult for a female top to find a suitable partner as it is for anyone else.
The ads for brothels indicating an on-staff mistress (for lack of a better term) fall into a different category - professional domination. This is a much different animal from domination for fun, and has a whole different culture and set of expectations at work. It is the case (at least in the US) that female tops are generally the most successful at making a living off dominating others - my opinion is that that’s caused by a number of cultural factors, and only minorly affected (if at all) by the perceived rarity of female tops in the “regular” kink scene. It is my experience that men who regularly engage the service of professional dominants are rarely comfortable socializing with non-pro players, although there are certainly exceptions to that rather broad generalization.
Robin has noted that it would probably be helpful if I discussed the difference in the non-straight dynamic, and he is correct. Unfortunately, I have very limited experience in that area; the very small sample I do have with lesbian ratios implies to me that feminine tops are vanishingly rare, but not necessarily particularly sought-after generally. I have never met a woman who patronizes a professional dominatrix regularly, and so cannot speak intelligently about their experience. Most of the information I have about gay men’s kink is necessarily at second hand, and I think it would be presumptuous of me to try and speak to their views or experiences coming from such an outside position. One of the things that is an ongoing frustration for me in our “community,” such as it is, is the very large dividing line between straight kink and non-straight kink. It is depressingly rare for kink events to be pansexual - they are generally geared towards one end or the other of the spectrum, which I feel is counterproductive.
I think I’m starting to understand but please tell me if I’ve gone off track.
This is really not so much about the physical damage but the interaction of the processing of the pain.
If so that’s a whole different deal than I thought it was.
I’m guessing the skill of the top is in understanding how to regulate that processing.
I’ve tried to picture myself having to process receiving a flogging and guessing 3-4 seconds per hit and how that would work getting hit rhythmically with some sort of musical pacing. Pretty intense brain work. Since the flogging thing was brought up first that was all I really considered. I see there are a lot of other variations to think about.
As far as what you wrote here I’ll have to ponder that for a while. Anyone who says they can pull all the meaning out of that in a few minutes is kidding themselves.
Do you think you are, in “real life” (as opposed to the life you live with Robin and Dermott, where things are explicitly set up this way) a mean person? Or does the “mean” side of you only come out in the context of the s/m relationship? Or, if “mean” is the wrong word to use - if somebody in your real life all of a sudden found out you were a sadist, would they be like “Well, duh, I can certainly see that,” or would they be like “Seriously? You? Seriously? For Real?”
How old are you? How old is Robin? How old is Dermott?
What are you going to school for?
Have you read the Marquis de Sade?
Do you wear leather and chains and stuff when you are engaging in a scene? How much does the attitude from the scenes blend into the non-scene part of life? I know in another thread (the Pitt one, I think) you referenced how Robin doesnt like making the beds, and you and him sat down and discussed the bed-making - was that kind of like a “time-out” discussion, or is part of the fun discussing mundane stuff while still being kind of sadistic?
Also in the other thread, in the same post about beds, you mentioned two beds - who do you usually sleep with at night? Or do you trade off?
Can you order Robin in here to answer some questions, or do you think he might pop in of his own accord?
Past Dominant/Switch, current sub checking in. There is quite a bit of controversy among certain lifestyle circles about switches. Some D/s’ers don’t believe switches are serious about the lifestyle. Some think switches are fooling themselves and don’t really have a desire to be both, but are actually one or the other. And some think switches are players looking for a good time and won’t take good care of a sub.
There are some D/s’ers who are very narrow and strict in their interpretation of the lifestyle and feel their way is the only way.
When I was a Dominant I preferred to not be addressed as Mistress by anyone who was not my collared sub because in my opinion it was a title that was earned over time and through experience with one particular person (my sub).
Priori Tea, do you and Robin have a contract? If so, how often is it re-negotiated?
Are you involved in your local scene? Do you attend play parties? If so, do you perform or merely observe?
Re: switches. I have a masochistic streak that’s very prominent, so I am technically an s/m switch, but not a D/s switch. I have met folks who are both, and even couples who switch roles with each other on a regular basis. I look at switches the way I look at pretty much any other orientation - some of them are awesome people, some of them are assholes, and most of them are somewhere in between. Aithele is correct in that there is a stigma attached to being a switch in certain communities, but I think that it’s a silly one. I believe that it’s becoming less prevalent, as open switching is becoming more common, and hope that eventually it will go the way of the dodo.
Re: “real life.” Most people who don’t already know I’m a sadist who find out are not surprised. I am very blunt, and very direct in getting my way. I don’t think I’m “mean” to people who haven’t asked me to be, because I have an objection to taking out my uncommon tendencies on people who haven’t consented. That’s one of the reasons that I am happy I found a constructive outlet for the desire to be a horrible prick. But I think that there is a certain perception of women who have no qualms about bossing people around (in a context-appropriate way) to get what they want, and who are not afraid of saying “I want this. How can I get it?” That perception, I think, leads people to be comfortable with the idea of a woman like that having something different or wrong about her, which makes sadism unsurprising to them.
I am 26. Robin is 22. Dermott is 31.
I am going to school to polish skills I already have, that need formal instruction. That’s the long way of saying “I don’t know yet - a little of this and a little of that, right now.”
I have read two of the Marquis’ books, and will not likely read more. While he is the etymological source of sadism, he has very, very little in common with how modern, consensual sadism is practiced. I do not recommend him as reading for budding sadists, except for historical context.
What I wear in a scene is largely dependent on context. I’ve certainly worn leather and chains - and rubber and rope, for that matter - but it’s not always either necessary or desirable. Quite often there is no specific costume or drag required for an ordinary beating or wax or whatever scene, so I’ll just wear something I like wearing to the club, and go from there. I am as often in BDUs as leather, because BDUs are much more practical, and there’s less worry about getting stuff on 'em.
I have a few friends with whom I play, and Robin, who is my partner. If I don’t have a relationship with someone that involves play, my “scene attitude” will not bleed over onto them at all, if I can help it. To me, that’s involving them in my kink without their consent, which is a no-no.
Yams!!, you asked about the bed-making discussion particularly - no, that wasn’t a time-out sort of discussion, in that we didn’t make a concerted effort to put off our dynamic in order to have it. In fact, without the dynamic in place, I doubt the conversation would have been as productive - because I would not have had the authority to force Robin to hold still and answer my questions, even when he didn’t want to. I believe that the way our relationship (and the power exchange within it) is set up actually fosters better communication than an equal relationship between us would, because I can require him to stay on a topic I am not done investigating, and require him to give me answers that he might otherwise try to wiggle out of giving. This is particularly true because he doesn’t like giving me answers that will (or just might) make me unhappy; I believe that is more because he really doesn’t like making me happy than out of any fear of punishment or retribution for the “wrong” answer. Part of the reason I believe that is that I have never punished him for the way he feels, and I never intend to; his feelings are part of the person I love, and because I value him very highly, I will not devalue that important part of him. And, frankly, I do a get a mild sadistic jolly out of making him answer questions he doesn’t want to - but that’s secondary to having a productive conversation, if there’s a problem that needs to be addressed.
There are two beds in our house - one in the master bedroom (heh) and one in Robin’s bedroom. I spend one week in one, and then one week in the other, giving both partners an equal opportunity for Tea-cuddling.
I can order Robin in here to answer questions, but I’m not going to - I feel that a thread like this is entirely too personal to enter into without a specific personal desire to do so. I will happily mention to him that you asked, though, and it’s possible that he will pop in of his own accord.
We do not have a formal, written contract. We do have clear expectations of one another, and if one or the other of us gets unclear on what they are, we talk about it. We re-negotiate our expectations and boundaries on an as-needed basis - pretty much, when one of us gets pissed about something, it’s time to talk about what we’re doing again.
We are involved with our local scene as much as is practical - the “local” scene is an hour’s drive away, and we’re both very busy, so it’s not as often as we’d like. We do play in public as often as we can, primarily because the public dungeon space we attend has more room for me to swing the scary stuff at him. I’m also involved in the (very limited) educational arm of that scene, to the extent that often my more esoteric scenes involve talking about technique and safety to the audience as I work. If I can ever get the organizers on board with scheduling regular classes, I’ll be doing the Sadist Happy Dance, hehe.
Aithele - I have run into that kind of staring-down-the-nose attitude from a couple of D/s couples in real life, but in my experience it’s pretty uncommon. The place I’ve seen it most is here in the intertubes, where people can be dicks without ruining their reputation amongst their friends. Have you found the same, or is it different in your neck of the woods? Thanks for popping in to share - more experiences and voices will give people a broader view, I hope.
Excellent thread, A Prioi Tea. Fighting ignorance has taken a couple of big steps forward this past few days, hasn’t it?
I’d like to add my two cents’ worth on a couple of topics folks have brought up, just to back up what you have said from a slightly different perspective:
It is entirely possible to be into D/s without being a sadist, a masochist, or into S&M at all. It was confusing for me to learn that, but a valuable thing to know. I’ve been on both sides of a flogger, and not only did neither side particularly turn me on, while on the receiving end, I literally almost couldn’t even feel it. Now, after some reading, I know that my particular preferred style of D/s relationship commonly foregoes S&M beyond some very basic impact play (spankings in particular) and some pleasure-pushed-to-the-breaking point type play (e.g., multiple orgasms until she passes out, though I haven’t quite attained that … yet). FWIW, I’m a daddy dom.
Having said that I’ve been on both sides of a flogger, one might naturally assume that my next point would be about switches, and one would be right. The girlfriend who introduced me to the more advanced BDSM concepts that I now understand identified herself as a domme entirely when we met. I identified myself as submissive, though not necessarly “a submissive,” because I wouldn’t have understood that terminology. It was she who sussed out my true nature as a dom and it seemed to be quite startling to her to find out how quickly she was willing and able to submit to me: I think that she literally had no idea that she was a switch. I could be wrong, I’d hate to put words in her mouth, but that was the way it seemed. But the point is, sometimes whether you’re a dom or a sub depends entirely upon who you’re with and what they bring out in you. I can imagine being in a relationship that “switched” me, and in fact explicitly told my new girlfriend that until we knew each other better and felt more comfortable with each other’s boundaries, she only needed to consider me her Daddy when we were in my home, and that if she felt the need to be in charge elsewhere, I was open to that. But so far, she seems very happy with the way I take care of her.
I have some comments and questions; I just want to make it clear they aren’t intended as a personal attack but out of a sort of simultaneous fascination/confusion with the idea being presented here. Everything I say, I say with the utmost respect and appreciation for having this dialog available.
A Priori Tea thank you for your eloquent responses in all threads regarding this topic. I have, shall we say, more than a passing interest in the concept of submission and bondage, though to be perfectly frank humiliation and sadism in any context, particularly sexual, make me feel a little ill to ponder. I am not close-minded to the possibility that people other than myself could be fulfilled by such a relationship, but it’s emotionally difficult to comprehend. I can’t help but feel that any person I would want to give power over me would never deliberately humiliate me or cause me pain, and it’s hard to imagine any sort of loving relationship with those elements. And while the idea of ceding that power during a sexual encounter might be exciting, the thought of ceding power over other elements of my life is unthinkable. I have a lot of anxiety about living the life the right way, but I make the choice to struggle with that anxiety and fight against it – letting go of the power, letting go of the struggle, seems to be antiethical to what it means to be truly alive. For me, it would mean giving up on life – I might as well be dead if I am to stop altogether the painful business of living.
To use a very basic, recent example – I called in sick to work today. I have a lot of guilt and anxiety whenever I’m sick or call in sick, because I feel like my employers may be judging me, think I’m a liar, whatever – or that I’m weak and most people don’t call in sick because of X illness. Whatever. The point is, after agonizing over it this morning, I made the decision to call in sick, because that is what I believed was best for me. Had my husband, who listened to my agonized thought process this morning and simply replied, ‘‘I trust you to do whatever is best for you,’’ simply stepped in and said, ‘‘You will go to work,’’ or ‘‘You’re too sick to work today; you’re staying home.’’ – well, that would have saved me a lot of mental grief, right? But my husband feels the same way I do – namely, that it is best for me, in the long run, to make these decisions for myself. Even though there might be pain involved, it is growing pain – we all have to take responsibility for ourselves at some point and take responsibility for the decisions we make. To cede that responsibility to someone else is to put ourselves in the same position of powerlessness that we had as children–and, more importantly, to cease to grow and strengthen ourselves as human beings. Therefore, from the point of view of someone who does suffer depression and anxiety, a Total Power Exchange looks a lot like suicide to me–or at least cowardice, giving in, letting the discomfort of depression and anxiety win instead of fighting against it.
I guess that would be a comment better addressed to freekalette or Robin, and I’m not really accusing you of being cowards, I’m just trying to explore and understand my own reservations about this lifestyle. I have no doubt that you’d be lovely people to meet in r/l and have already contributed very much to this board.
Now, to A Priori Tea, I ask the following:
You mention you have a tendency to be mean to others that is less pronounced when you are happily engaged with Robin. Are you saying, in a sense, that you are potentially pathological and somehow are able to sublimate this urge through acting out BDSM relationship dynamics? (By ‘‘pathological’’ I mean sociopathic or sadistic --either without empathy or deriving pleasure in all contexts from others’ suffering.) Have you ever felt different from other people and your relationship with Robin a kind of experience in which you find total acceptance for predilections that have made you feel abnormal in the past?
If so, then…
…you must be aware how truly difficult to comprehend this passage must be for a lot of us. If I am to take a stab at it, it would have to be this: You have felt like a freak, different from anyone else, for the majority of your life, and felt shamed for your impulses to dominate and humiliate others. It is only with Robin that you can truly be yourself, and he actually loves you for it because you fulfill the same sense of belonging in him.
Feel free to correct me if I’m wrong, but that leads me to my final questions…
Do you believe there is ever a risk of objectification and exploitation in this context? At what point does Robin cease to be a whole human being and instead become a beloved object, your Savior, a symbol instead of a person? When you say, ‘‘my tears in that moment came from loving him so much only tears would express it – and using them to hurt him was the perfect way to tell him that,’’ this strikes me as the essence of a fetish, namely that what you value in your relationship with Robin is being loved for your sadistic tendencies, which to most would be seen as a human failing, but to him are seen as fulfilling. Powerful, maybe, but this has a very one-dimensional, fetishistic feel to it, reducing Robin’s identity (and yours) to the masochistic/sadistic dynamic. Do you ever feel there is a danger of that? How do you address it?
Do you feel all or your sadistic/dominating urges are fulfilled by your relationship with Robin, or do you ever fantasize about cutting deeper, causing more pain and more intensity, or acting out your urges on unwilling victims? Do you ever worry it will get out of hand?
Thanks for your willingness to satisfy our curiosity regarding this deeply personal matter.
non-name bolding of the word “happy” in the first paragraph is mine
Thank you for your answers, A Priori Tea!
I am wondering if you meant “doesnt like making me unhappy” in the first paragraph?
Do you think Robin ever purposefully does something “wrong” so he can be punished? If you realized that he was doing something with the specific purpose of getting punished, would you go head and punish him or would you purposefully not punish him, because you don’t want to give him what he wants? (I am not in a D/s relationship (nor in any kind of relationship, sigh) but I am fairly masochistic, and this is totally something I would do were I in his position.)
The clarification about the bed-making discussion was spot-on, thank you. Do you stay “in character” when you do the contract negotiations? It seems like the “contract negotiations” kind of come up as needed - do you just naturally kind of slip out of the roles when you realize that the dynamic needs to be reevaluated, or will you officially put down the whip, so to speak?
How to Dermott and Robin interact? Do you all eat dinner together? Do they ever play together? (Not like football play, but, you know - play.)
Also, a confession: whenever you mention Robin, I automatically picture the Robin from Batman, but because his full screen name is Robin_Goodfellow, and because “Goodfellow” reminds me of Pilgrims, I always picture the Boy Wonder wearing a hat with a feather in it and shoes with buckles.
Again, thank you for the great thread!
Regarding switches: When I was switching 7 or 8 years ago the discrimination was pretty bad. It’s one of the reasons I distanced myself from my local scene. I’ve become a little more involved with it since then and the attitude has definitely improved. There are still people who have that attitude but it’s rarer which makes me enormously happy to see.
Regarding my-way-is-the-right-way attitude: Absolutely. There are some Houses in Houston that were more strict about it, wanting everyone to do things their way. I’m not as involved in the local scene as I used to be. I’ve noticed people are a little more relaxed about it now. It’s an hour away and gas isn’t cheap. That attitude is definitely more prevalent online. But the anonymity of it allows them to get away with it. They aren’t berated for taking someone to task for not doing things their way online. Unless an assertive sub or opinionated Dominant tells them they are being assholes. I’ve had quite a few heated debates about it but some people are going to be judgmental no matter what.
Any BDSM relationship needs flexibility. The couple (or group as the case may be) have to decide what works best for them.
A Priori Tea, thank you for your answer. I’m not sure I have any other questions right now, so I’ll just keep following along and trying to learn stuff. I’d also love to hear from Robin if he’d like to share too.
First - yes, yams!! I definitely meant unhappy, not happy, hehe. Thank you!
Olivesmarch4th, thank you for giving me some serious food for thought this morning. I had to run out and do errands, but your post needed chewing on before I could answer it with any clarity, anyhow. Let me see if I can take it one piece at a time, and offer something with substance.
I deal with bipolar disorder and anxiety myself, and I empathize with the impression that you have. TPE as a submissive would be deadly wrong for me, too - not because I am dominant, but because that’s just not a good structure for me to work through my challenges in. I hesitate to put words in Robin’s mouth about why it works for him (with social anxiety, shyness, etc.), so instead I’ll offer you a couple of tidbits about why working on it with him works for me. Let me caveat that he and I do not classify what we do as TPE - there are some areas of his life over which I do not have authority, nor want any.
When we first started considering entering into a full-time D/s dynamic, one of the first things I asked him about was whether he had things about himself he wanted to change or improve. To my mind, one of the ways that D/s is most useful as a structure is to help a submissive learn and grow in ways that s/he otherwise would not. Robin would not, for instance, have pushed himself nearly as hard as I pushed him to expand his social boundaries, and to engage in situations that were just outside his comfort level - but because I was there to provide both impetus and stability, it made for a very productive method of work. It’s a bit like the difference between joining a gym and having a personal trainer - when there’s someone else invested in your effort, providing structure and setting goals, it’s often much easier to achieve things that you previously thought impossible.
Let me reiterate, though, that I am NOT Robin’s therapist. I am not qualified to be. All I do in behavioral training is work with him to find the things he wants to be able to do, and help him achieve those. In that way I can provide him with a place of security from which to experiment, so that he has enough confidence to face the sorts of challenges he might otherwise not.
As far as his decision-making ability atrophying - well, let me say without condescension that I find that idea pretty funny. One of the big things I do is force him to make choices, to commit to having a preference - specifically because it’s something he’s not good at and wants to work on. Yes, I make decisions that affect both of us, and sometimes I go against his expressed preference. However, that by no means indicates that he isn’t required to make and hold to decisions on a very frequent basis. To hear him bitch, you’d think I made him decide everything!
I see I’ve been unclear somewhere, and I apologize. Let me restate: before discovering that my sadistic tendencies could and should be channeled productively, I exercised them on whoever was handy. It was mostly ignorance, and partly just not giving a damn. However, since discovering that there is a consensual, mutually gratifying outlet for this desire, I don’t consider myself in any danger of becoming pathological, or a danger to those who have not consented to engage in s/m with me. I have always felt “different” from other people, but sadism is a small part of that difference, not the whole of it.
I do find in my relationship with Robin a kind of acceptance that I haven’t found in other places. It’s not what you’d expect, though. Since finding a kink community, a lot of people have accepted and even lauded my sadistic and dominant sides, and found great joy in them. I don’t have any trouble finding people who want me to hurt them, who find it fun, and who will give me emotional and social validation for doing so. Oddly enough, the acceptance I get from Robin that I don’t get anywhere else is that I’m not always a big scary sadist. Sometimes I just want to be cute and cuddly, and he enjoys that without taking advantage of it or allowing it to negate me as a sadist in his mind. I can explore being vulnerable in different ways with him than I can anyone else, because I can trust him not to lose sight of my main identity just because it’s not my only identity.
If my relationship with Robin were to end, I would not be in any danger of becoming pathological or unable to control my urges. Think of it… like eating meat. Folks who eat meat can certainly become vegetarians; it requires discipline and planning, but is certainly possible. They can even become vegetarians while there is no meat available, and then go back to eating meat when it becomes available again. Sadism, for me, is the same way - it is an integral part of my sexual diet, but not necessary for my survival. In the long term, it is necessary for me to feel fulfilled and happy as a person, but that’s in the long term.
I think that I have addressed your second question somewhere in here (about one-dimensionality, and loving a symbol instead of a person); if I haven’t, or I’ve not been clear, please let me know!
When I first realized that I truly was a sadist, that I could take pleasure in making someone scream and bleed, I was petrified. I thought I was a monster. I had nightmares about being a passenger in my own body while some big evil Thing in my head used me to cut them up and leave them begging and dying. Given that this happened about when puberty hit, for me, you can see how it would be something of an adjustment.
Part of that realization is knowing that no matter how far I go, there will always be some small urge to go further. I acknowledge it, I work around it, and I don’t put myself in situations where taking things too far would be easier than being conservative about where my (and my partner’s) limits are. I have never had a fantasy about unwilling victims - a lot of what drives me to give out pain is my partner’s desire to feel it, to overcome it, to be with me in it.
Do I worry that it will get out of hand? Yes, in the same way that I worry about crashing every time I’m in a plane. I understand that it’s possible, and it worries me because it’s not technically impossible - but I take every reasonable precaution to prevent it, and I don’t consider it even approaching “feasible.” I have never had the smallest feeling of being out of control of myself while engaging in s/m play, and none of my nightmares have proven to have any basis in reality.
Now, to separate posts so I don’t give you guys yet more Huge Blocks O’ Text, heh…
Robin and I do not have a “punishment dynamic” - that is, I do not beat him when he does things wrong. You’ve put your finger solidly on the reason for this - beatings are not a punishment for him, because they’re fun! We have certain rules and expectations that he is required to follow. If he does something wrong, I sit down and tell him “This is what I see that you’ve done. Your behavior implies (disrespect, sloppiness, disobedience, whatever) to me. If you’re having a problem, I need to know it - and if there’s an explanation, I’m willing to hear it. If it’s just that you’re too lazy to do what you’re supposed to, perhaps I should review how you spend your time so that you can be more organized.” That’s a paraphrase, but you get the idea. It’s very much NOT scene or play oriented; play is something we engage in for fun, and I have no desire to muddle up punishment with fun. That just gets messy in a hurry, and I hate messy. (There’s also the whole Skinner-behavior-modification model which I think is very intelligent - if I reward a behavior, he is encouraged to repeat it, and if I punish it, he is discouraged from repeating it. When most things that are called punishments are pleasant, you have to find new methods of discouraging undesired behavior.)
I have been in relationships with masochists before, where that kind of “acting out” happened in the beginning. My response is quite simple: “I understand that you’re trying to provoke me into hurting you. What you need to know is that I’m going to hurt you anyway - but not until you’ve proven that you can act like an adult and ask for what you want.” I am told (by some) that this is apparently no fun, and I’m just supposed to hit them when they’re bratty. Well, fuck that. I hit people who enjoy being hit, and who I enjoy hitting. If someone is intentionally trying to make me angry, I’m not going to enjoy hitting them. That’s just how I work. That is not the case for all sadists, or all dominants, by any stretch.
The idea of being “in character” in my relationship with Robin is a foreign one, to me. We aren’t playing characters, or roles - we are being who we are. If we put on our “we are equals now” hats, that is playing a role. I don’t officially “put down the whip” (I love that phrase!) when we talk about problems - because of how our dynamic is structured, as I said, he actually communicates better within it than outside of it. If we need to reevaluate the dynamic as a whole, then we do - there is no character or hat change necessary, because he and I can both speak freely within the context of the dynamic. He’s allowed, at any time, to say “I don’t want you to boss me around,” and I will listen. I may force him to explain to me why, and we may eventually come to a different conclusion about what needs to happen, but it’s an organic process that involves both of us, in which we both have a say.
Robin and Dermott interact like any number of other male roommates who get along but are not romantically interested in one another - they hang out, play video games, talk about stuff, etc. We very rarely all eat dinner together, because of scheduling. They don’t play together, because they are not inclined to do so - Dermott is both straight and vanilla, and so has no interest in Robin as a sex or play partner.
I must pass along your confession to Robin - he will giggle like crazy about that. I have told him that there is quite a bit of interest in him coming to join this thread; again, I am not going to force him to post, but we can all hope that the requests draw him in sooner than later.
I’m completely with you on this. The discovery that causing pain turns you on can be really frightening. The first guy I was with who was a masochist taught me a lot. The first couple of times we were together, I’m sure he wanted to laugh. I was so timid! Standing over him, belt in hand…wincing because I was afraid of hitting him too hard. Yea, it can take a while to realize that with a willing partner it really is ok to indulge.
The thought of ‘What if I can’t stop and go too far?’ is a scary one that needs to be worked through. The masochist has their limit on how far they can go, but so does a sadist. There are certain thresholds that I cannot cross for my own mental well being. Like blood, drawing blood from someone would be going too far for me.
Yes, yes, yes. There’s a “joke” that’s not really a joke in the kink world about how “tops have safewords too!” Truly, sometimes things are just outside someone’s scope of desire. I freely acknowledge that my scope of desire can be… fairly wide, but it still has limits beyond which activities leave me cold or afraid. Even with the desire to push boundaries, to see how far my partner and I can go, there is still a line at which I must say “no more - I can’t.”
A Priori Tea, all I can say is that I couldn’t have asked for more thoughtful, reasoned, fulfilling responses to these questions. I am really glad you are here.
Keep that up, and you’re gonna make me blush. It is a fulfilling and rewarding experience for me, as well - because I enjoy sharing about my experiences, and bringing some commonality to different spheres of engagement. Thank you, olives and everybody, for your challenging and interesting questions!
Like Rick, I’m a child of the ‘anything goes’ 60s and I really don’t give much of a shit what consenting adults do in private, but I’ve got to be honest – this makes me almost physically ill. I don’t suppose this is something I will ever understand.
My question is, do you ever worry that though you’re satisfying your own needs, you may be psychologically harming the one you love? I don’t mean this to be confrontational, A Priori Tea, I think you were brave to start this thread. I am genuinely interested in whether or not you think you really have Robin Goodfellow’s best interests at heart.
But I think that there is a certain perception of women who have no qualms about bossing people around (in a context-appropriate way) to get what they want, and who are not afraid of saying “I want this. How can I get it?” That perception, I think, leads people to be comfortable with the idea of a woman like that having something different or wrong about her, which makes sadism unsurprising to them.
I’m also involved in the (very limited) educational arm of that scene, to the extent that often my more esoteric scenes involve talking about technique and safety to the audience as I work. If I can ever get the organizers on board with scheduling regular classes, I’ll be doing the Sadist Happy Dance, hehe.