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#1
05-24-2002, 10:46 AM
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AOTC: The Jedi are the bad guys
Saw AOTC last night. Hated it, but that's not the point of this thread.
No, what struck me was that the Republic and the vaunted "good guy" Jedi are, quite frankly, morally reprehensible. I first thought this after seeing TPM, in which our dear Jedi have abolutely no problem with slavery on Tatooine, a Republic world. But AOTC confirmed it. The "bad guys" use androids - machines - as their fighting force. The Jedi use sentient beings, cloned and genetically manipulated to lose their free will, as their expendable fighters. Worse yet, they order them and pay for them. The Jedi were trafficking in sentient living beings. Far from merely tolerating slavery, as in TPM, they were engaged in the slave trade. I say that they deserve what's coming. Sua 
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#2
05-24-2002, 12:21 PM
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Apparently, you hated both movies enough to not actually watch or listen to them.
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Padme: I can't believe there is still slavery in the galaxy. The Republic's anti-slavery laws . . . Shmi: The Republic doesn't exist out here. We must survive on our own. Try again? Further to the point, I guess the Jedi were supposed to abandon the mission they were on -- getting the Queen to Coruscant -- to overthrow slavery on Tattooine or something. Is that your point? Quote:
And it would just be crazy to think that Sidious and Dooku purposefully put the Jedi in a position where they had to make a choice between using the army to defeat the separatists and rescue the Jedi or risk being exterminated. That's just nuts. I wish people would actually watch the movies if they're going to criticize them.
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#3
05-24-2002, 12:54 PM
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pl, instead of going through that absurd rigamorale in TPM to get them money to buy Annakin, perhaps the mighty Jedi should have just taken Annakin (and his mother!!) away from their slavemaster - who was just a little putz anyway.
But fine, I'll concede the TPM slavery point. I won't concede the AOTC slavery point. The question of who ordered the clones aside, the Jedi (not just the Jedi, but Yoda!!) took delivery of said slaves and threw said sentient beings into battle. And who said that the Jedi and the Republic had no other choice? Let's see - there are tens of thousands of worlds in the Republic. We need an army. Maybe we could raise said army from the trillions of citizens in the Republic? Naaaah, let's go the expedient route and use cloned slaves who have had their free will bred out of them. Sua
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#4
05-24-2002, 01:12 PM
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You didn't really see this one either, did you? Try to follow the sequence of events-- 1. Ten years ago, fake Jedi orders clone army. 2. Present day, Palpatine/Sidious and his Sith buddies manipulate events to create false crisis of separatists and to plant idea of need for a Republic army. 3. Jedi go to Geonosis to rescue Obi-Wan and find themselves at the mercy of Dooku and the "separatists." 4. Yoda takes clone army to rescue Jedi, lest they be destroyed. 5. Palpatine, having been granted emergency powers, sends the clone army, now given legitimacy due to its use by the Jedi, off to thousands of worlds to subjugate them and consolidate his powers. 6. Jedi are truly and deeply fucked now, hoist on their own petard.
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#5
05-24-2002, 01:13 PM
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And then, Yoda would be stuck with over a million sentient beings who have been bred and raised to be soldiers with nothing to do. The Jedi were stuck with this army, there's nothing else the soldiers can do because they are genetically predisposed to military service, so it made sense that they may as well use these guys for the purpose they were intended for (and what they're happy doing, thanks to the genetic conditioning) and then let them serve as the Republic's army to face the separatist threat. Now, before anyone complains about how it's wrong to force the separatists to stay in if they don't want to, it was a good enough course of action for Abraham Lincoln.
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#6
05-24-2002, 01:17 PM
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It seems that Yoda arrived in the nick of time with an already armed and trained fighting force. There was no time to darft Republic citizens, arm them and train them in time to save the Jedis. The movie ends immediatly after the battle.
We don't know if the Jedi say after that "No more clones, it's morally reprehensible. We only used them once cause we had no choice." And then perhaps we have 3 factions: Separatists with their droids, anti-clone Republic faction with Jedi support and a drafted army, and Palpatine's pro-clone group. That's all just speculation. As for just whisking Anakin and Shmi off of Tatooine, you have to remember that they had explosives embedded inside them that couldn't be removed easily. If they were to leave the planet (or perhaps even the city) then Kaboom!
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#7
05-24-2002, 01:22 PM
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Darn too slow.
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#8
05-24-2002, 02:11 PM
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Also, the Jedi are servants of the Republic and are under the ultimate control of the Chancellor. The Chancellor wanted the clone army, and if the Jedi didn't want to serve with them there wasn't much they could do short of joining the separatists. Therefore, the Jedi are not the villains, but are instead tools/pawns of the villain.
So while they do come out looking not-so-great, you have to remember that the films are about the fall of the Republic and the Jedi, so that's what we get.
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#9
05-24-2002, 02:59 PM
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2. Jedi discover that fake Jedi ordered a Clone army. Quote:
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Obi-Wan is captured. The Jedi go off to save him. At precisely the same time the Jedi leave, Yoda goes to get the slaves, er, clones. Yoda doesn't know that the Jedi are in need of rescuing when he goes to get the clones. It is Yoda's immediate response when he learns that one Jedi has been captured. (Annakin had not been captured when Jedi went to get the clones). There is expediency and then there is expediency. Perhaps it is justified to engage in slavery to save the Republic. But Yoda and the Jedi Council engaged in slavery to save one Jedi. I would think by the code of the Jedi, a Jedi would sacrifice himself rather than be responsible for the enslavement of hundreds of thousands of sentient beings. Add to that, Yoda went to get clones that he knew had been ordered by a fake Jedi. Suspicious, yes. Made for evil, they are. Sua
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#10
05-24-2002, 03:32 PM
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Separatists? Let 'em secede.
What really bad thing would that be? Give them a taste of independence, and perhaps failure, let them come slinking back to the Republic...maybe they'll learn something. Or... Maybe they would sucsede, and the republic would learn something.
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#11
05-24-2002, 03:46 PM
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#12
05-24-2002, 04:12 PM
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I just thought I would toss this article in here...
http://www.weeklystandard.com/Conten...1/248ipzbt.asp
__________________
XBL - CavemanGamer | Steam - Paleospieler | Twitter - tanstaaflWDM | Blog - The Paleogamer
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#13
05-24-2002, 04:13 PM
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Sounds like you looked at both movies, but didn't really watch them, Sua. The Jedi are responding to a crisis on Geonosis, which Obi-Wan reported to them before being captured. His transmission ends with a pair of destroyer droids walking into the frame and attacking him- very alarming. Every available Jedi sets off on a rescue mission - is it illogical for Yoda to decide to bring the clone army along just in case? If it's important enough for the Jedi to go in force to Geonosis, then it's logical for Yoda to bring reinforcements in case they're needed, and in case some kind of garrison force is necessary.
Now, sure, the war hadn't started yet when these events were set into motion, but playing both sides has been Palpatine's strategy all along. In TPM, he created the crisis with the Trade Federation on Naboo in order to have Valorum voted out as supreme chancellor and himself nominated to fill the post. Ten years later in AOTC, he has created a secession crisis, maneuvered himself into being granted emergency powers as Supreme Chancellor, and arranged for this big clone army to be created (maybe he was going to use them to support the separatists, but Obi-Wan discovered the army and the plan had to be changed)- this way, he's guaranteed a war to perpetuate the crisis and cement his hold on power. If you'll recall, a major point of contention - and the reason for the asassination attempts on Padme Amidala - is whether or not the Republic should raise an army or not. Palpatine declares that, now that he has emergency powers due to the separatist crisis, he will raise a Grand Army of the Republic - by then, the Jedi are heading off to battle. As for Yoda's justification for using the clone army, when its an emergency, you use the tools you have at hand. Sure, he knew that they were ordered by a fake Jedi, but the Kiminoans didn't know it, so they trained the clones to be loyal and take orders from the Jedi. Here Yoda has a couple of hundred thousand highly trained soldiers (in the batch who are ready to go) who are itching to take orders from him, and the rest of the Jedi are going on a rescue mission that looks like it might result in combat. Hmmm....not a hard decision on our favorite Muppet's part. Even if he doesn't know how bad the fight will be, there's no reason not to arrive with reinforcements just in case, and figure out the whys and whos later, once the smoke clears.
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#14
05-24-2002, 04:20 PM
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Sua, have you ever heard the expression "Never look a gift horse in the mouth?"
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#15
05-24-2002, 06:24 PM
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Sua Quote:
Sua
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#16
05-24-2002, 06:38 PM
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The problem with the Jedi is not that they're evil, but that they're bumbling incompetents. They stumble into every trap Palpatine lays for them. They jump into action Wile E. Coyote style with no plan or purpose. Obi-Wan and Anakin seem to get their asses kicked by pretty much everyone they come up against (the Tuscan PTA not-withstanding).
Hell, if I needed a bodyguard, I think I'd feel safer with David Addison or Valerie Irons on the case.
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#17
05-24-2002, 06:48 PM
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Good points Sua. To expand on them a bit.
Point 1) Ok, so there's a bomb in L'il Anakin an' his mommy? Keen. Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon are Jedi. "Size matters not", remember? All Qui-Gon had to do is use the far-seeing stuff (that we saw Luke use) to look inside the kid and his mommy to see the bombs then one of the two Jedi had only to twiddle his fingers to A) break the bombs, B) remove the bombs, C) disable the bombs. OR, even better, grab Watto, put your turned-off lightsaber to his left ear, and ask him if he want's his right ear cleaned when you turn the light-saber on? No? Then better hand over the de-activator for the kid and his mommy. It's amazing how the Jedi forget their powers when it's incovienient to the plot. Hell: grab another slave-owner who isn't convienently immune to Jedi Mind Tricks and force him to give up his money to pay Watto. Oh. But you couldn't make a video game out of that.  And before someone goes all culturally relativistic on me, let me say in advance that by being a slave-owner, anything the Jedi do to him in order to free the slaves is morally fine by me. Fenris
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#18
05-24-2002, 07:05 PM
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tanstaafl: Thanks for that link. As someone who hates Star Bores, I thought it was hilarious.
Darth Vader rules, Han Solo drools.
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#19
05-24-2002, 07:20 PM
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Sua, what would you have the Jedi do in regards to the Army? By the time Yoda arrived and spoke to the Kaminoans, it must have been obvious to him that this army was ordered for some dark purpose. Should he have just left it there and said, "Whelp, I guess I'll leave it to be picked up by whoever wants to use it for evil! Bye!" I guess you'd want him to take it and turn it loose, which might be reasonable, but there was that matter of the droid armies being assembled on Geonosis (which Obi-Wan did tell them about) and the potential for danger to a couple hundred Jedi.
It's a lose-lose situation for the Jedi. Leave the army there, and not only do the Jedi on Geonosis (which included the entire Council) get slaughtered, but the army's real orderer takes it for evil purposes. Take it with them, and Palpatine, leader of the Republic (and newly blessed with emergency powers) says, "Thanks for picking up that army--I'll just take it off your hands now." Regarding the "fake Jedi" issue, it should have been apparently clear that someone showed up on Kamino using Sifo-Dyas's name to order the army. Let's see . . . --AOTC takes place 10 years after TPM --Darth Maul was killed at the end of TPM, necessitating recruitment of a new Sith apprentice --Dooku, who is revealed to be a former Jedi, also turns out to be Lord Tyranus, a Sith. It doesn't say when he left the Jedi order, but dollars to doughnuts says it was ten years before AOTC.' --Someone shows up ten years ago on Kamino claiming to be Jedi Master Sifo-Dyas and orders a clone army --Master Sifo-Dyas was killed about 10 years ago --The template for the clones, Jango Fett, was "recruited by a man called Tyranus [who we know is Dooku] on one of the moons of Bogden." I'm getting a picture here--you don't suppose that Dooku left the Jedi, joined the Sith, killed Sifo-Dyas and used his name on Kamino to order a clone army, and recruited Jango to be the template for it, do you? Fenris: So, not only are the Jedi's powers supposed to be without limit (and BTW, when did Luke ever use his powers to do an MRI or a CAT scan, for crissakes??? If they could do that, Qui-Gon could have just done his own freakin' midichlorian count--with magic!!!), they are supposed to dump their mission at the drop of a hat?
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#20
05-24-2002, 07:27 PM
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Forgot the last part
And why would they just be able to "twiddle their fingers" and disable the bombs at all? We have never seen Jedi able to affect the actual operation of machinery at a distance. Especially machinery they've never laid eyes on. We've seen them perform basic telekinetic tasks, like moving an object or causing a switch to throw. But Ben Kenobi had to physically shut down the tractor beam on the Death Star. He couldn't just "twiddle his fingers" at the map in the control room and shut it down. Luke had to physically blow up the Death Star. The team on Endor had to physically shut down the shield generator--they never suggested Luke just "twiddle his fingers" at it and make it shut down.
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#21
05-24-2002, 07:28 PM
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I watched the movie tonight, and I came to the same conclusion for different reasons.
We have ‘The Republic’ which te Jedi know to be corrupt, which has proven it is unable or unwilling to protect its citizens from being slaughtered and enslaved (see Naboo invasion TPM). In short it is failing. A group of people wish to leave this ‘Democracy’. They don’t want to orchestrate a coup. They want to leave. And the Jedi are forcing them to stay why? Aren’t the Jedi just acting as the enforcer arm of the imperialist republic? Then we have a Jedi murdering women and children. Yoda knows about this. A senator knows about this. What happens to this mass murderer? Absolutely nothing whatsoever. While he is threatened with banishment form the order for disobeying a direct order on the field of battle, for mass murder absolutely nothing happens. No prison sentence, no banishment, nothing. The state and the order know that its Jedi are doing this sort of thing and nothing happens. So much for the Jedi being the keepers of peace and justice. They willingly accept murderous thugs into the order. So much for the senate/republic being the good guys. If you murder women and children on a non-republic world they no only do nothing, they actually allow you to continue to act as police officer. But he was crying about it later, so that make it okay I guess. Then we have to Jedi walk into a bar, hit someone with a lightsaber, and when the crowd gathers round the senior officer says “Jedi business’ and everyone shrinks back. This strongly implies their they were frightened, or they know there is absolutely nothing you can do about Jedi actions. The impression I get is that the Jedi are brownshirts for the ‘democratic’ imperialism of the republic. I’m sure this wasn’t Lucas’s intent, but that really is the way they come across. Allowing a mass murderer to stay in the ranks of the Jedi means that the jedi have no moral right to tell anyone what constitutes just and legal behaviour, and the Senate/republic has no right to suggest that it is compassionate, just r taking the moral high ground. The movies no longer have goodies and baddies. Just two sides with legitimate greivances, on fighting a ‘War of Independance’.
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#22
05-24-2002, 07:37 PM
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I'm only using abilities Lucas has explicitly said they have. It's not my fault if he has to resort to an "idiot plot"* to work around the abilities he's already given them. And hell, assuming that for whateverthehell reason their Jedi powers suddenly become useless for disarming the bombs, what about A) threating Watto B) Mind-Tricking a vulnerable slave-owner to buy L'il Anakin and Mom (they can't ALL be immune, can they?) or C) Have Amidala pawn ONE of her fancy outfits to get the money to free the two slaves? And since both Jedi (IIRC-or was it just Qui-Gon?) thought it so important to rescue L'il Anakin ('cause he was so hyper-midichlorinated), why not take another few minutes to try to rescue mom, since a happy well-adjusted Uber-Force User is better than an emotionally traumatized one by ANY rational. For all his other flaws (like blowing up planets), at least the Emperor managed to stamp out the slave trade on Tattoine (as opposed to the Jedi, who couldn't be bothered.. Fenris *"Idiot plot" = one that only works because all the characters are idiots.
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#23
05-24-2002, 07:43 PM
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#24
05-24-2002, 07:49 PM
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Folks, wouldn't the Jedi be a bit, erm, pointless if they really had such far-reaching powers? *Twiddle your fingers* and the problem is instantly solved? Jedi are supposed to be magicians, not gods. The Force is along the lines of a magic wand. Useful? Yeah. Mystifying to the uninitiated? Sure. Solution to all life's problems? Nuh uh.
I do admit that it squicked me a bit to see the Jedi using a cloned army, though.
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#25
05-24-2002, 07:58 PM
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It's only by virtue of the fact that they're investigating the plot to kill Amidala that they discover the armies assembling on Geonosis, and even then they use the clone army to rescue the Jedi, and to take away the separatists' ability to attack the Republic. It is never stated that they care one way or the other whether the seperatists join the Republic. And they aren't the ones being sent off (presumably to quash the seperatists) at the end of AOTC--the clone armies are. Quote:
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B) & C) Watto didn't want to sell them in the first place. Why would he have agreed under either of those scenarios? [quote]why not take another few minutes to try to rescue mom, since a happy well-adjusted Uber-Force User is better than an emotionally traumatized one by ANY rational. [/quoite] They take them from their families nearly at birth and make them live near-monastic lives for 15-20 years. Do you suppose that makes them well-adjusted? And there is the whole matter of that other mission, that might have been occupying their minds, you know? Shmi certainly didn't seem to care, either. Quote:
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#26
05-24-2002, 08:02 PM
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Blake says:
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Yoda, on the other hand, does not know. He felt anger and hate. That was it.
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#27
05-24-2002, 08:23 PM
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If an Army Ranger is sent into WeHaveSlaves-istan to perform a mission, or ends up there in the course of performing a mission, he is to complete the mission and nothing more. He is not to take it upon himself to interfere just because he thinks he should. Why should Jedi be any different? Indeed, interfering could potentially cause a great deal of trouble! What if word got back to Coruscant that Jedi had meddled in the affairs of a non-Republic world, and stolen property? That could be a huge political mess. The Republic is not trying to pick fights, nor are the Jedi.
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#29
05-24-2002, 09:10 PM
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Also, while a Jedi might (arguably) be able to use his TK ability to disarm an explosive implant, the ability to do so does not necessarily equate the knowledge of how to do it. And you are vastly overstating the Jedi ability of foresight, which has never been shown to be as percise or as controllable as would be necessary for on-site, on-the-fly, crash course training in demolitions disposal. And finally, what Blackknight said. Jedis running around Tattooine, flagrantly ignoring the laws of a sovereign nation and threatening its inhabitants would be a major diplomatic infraction, one which the Republic, which doesn't even have a standing army, cannot afford.
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#30
05-25-2002, 01:32 AM
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#31
05-25-2002, 02:10 AM
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Another commentary on Star Wars, these from David Brin, who, to say the least, has a different perspective than Mike Wong:
http://www.salon.com/ent/movies/feat...ide/index.html http://www.salon.com/ent/movies/feat...ain/index.html I have no problem with the group leaving Shmi behind due to the expediency of the mission in TPM, but what I cannot accept is that after Annakin saves Amidala's mission (and probably her life), and later her entire planet, she never thinks to use her considerable wealth to go back and buy Shmi's freedom. And Annakin in 10 years never tries to go back and try to free her. The only reason Shmi is still on Tatoonie ten years later is because it's necessary for her to be there so that she can be kidnapped and die in Annakin's arms.
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#32
05-25-2002, 04:29 AM
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RE: Qui-Gon and slaves on Tatooine...
The thing that's being forgotten here is that they were trying to keep a low profile. They had to get the Queen to Coruscant... if that failed, then millions of Naboo were going to die. In the middle of this crisis, you want them to kick off a slave revolution that (most likely) would have failed? Do you have any idea how many resources the Hutts have at their disposal? Plenty to take out two errant Jedi and a handful of Naboo guards. RE: Jedi using clones... The necessity for an army was already apparent. They knew that Obi-Wan was in danger, but what's more, they knew that the Separatists were massing forces on Geonosis and were a credible threat to the Republic. It's not as simple as "stop and recruit from the population". Further, the way clones are viewed in that society, they aren't much more than sentient droids. Calling it "morally reprehensible" shows an inability to enjoy the fiction. Hell, why not criticise it for showing people carrying guns in public without a CCW permit? Quote:
Hell, Fenris, it's not like there's no limit on what a Jedi can and can't do. Obviously, if Qui-Gon didn't use the Force to disarm Anakin's escape-protection device, the logical conclusion is that he was unable to (or chose not to for the purpose of maintaining the low profile as referenced earlier). Jeez, I know TPM was bad, but watch it 'fore you criticize it.
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#33
05-25-2002, 04:32 AM
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Missed this...
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#34
05-25-2002, 05:31 AM
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Well, it makes sense that the Republic wouldn't do much to free Shmi. They can't agree to pass a vote to wipe their own asses, and besides, it really is insignificant except to Anakin and a few others. Maybe if they knew exactly what would be prevented if they did so, they would have found a way. But hindsight is always 20/20.
Anakin himself couldn't do anything. For one thing, he has no ship. He'd have to borrow or rent one. I doubt he has much in the way of money. Jedi don't seem to be able to possess much besides their cloaks and lightsabres. Besides, the council would hardly allow a padawan to do something like that. Amidala, we find, has barely thought about Anakin at all since they parted (much to Anakin's chagrin). And to be honest, why should she? Her planet was recovering from attack, then she had to still be queen to her people (and now had relations with the Gungans to worry about), and then to be a senator. She probably voted for a few bills or courses of action that would have helped reduce slavery in the galaxy. That's how she's comfortable operating - as a politician. Yes, she can weild a blaster if she has to, but it's clear that her main skill is politics. (She's been a politician since she was what, 8?) If by some chance she even remembers the kid's mother and wants to do something, she is far more likely to do so by diplomatic and political means. There is simply no reason at all to expect anyone to free Shmi. Perhaps they should have done so, in the sense that I should give that $40 to the United Way instead of buying "The Structure of Evolutionary Theory" from Barnes&Noble. But only from a very Utilitarian perspective.
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#35
05-25-2002, 06:12 AM
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Shmi didn't seem to have too bad of a life after Anakin left, until those last few days. I imagine She continued on with Watto for a few years, met this guy Cliegg, they fell for each other and he bought her freedom and lived together in wedded bliss for a few years. Maybe Anakin could sense that she was happy for the past 5 years and felt no need to rush to her aid.
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#36
05-25-2002, 06:46 AM
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“>>>>And? When exactly in AOTC did she get an opportunity to tell anyone about it?
“>>>>Wow, I must have missed the part in the movie that takes place when Anakin returns from Naboo after escorting Amidala back and the Council decides to take up the matter of his actions on Tatooine with him. Oh wait, there wasn't any such part because the movie ended.” Not sure what movie you saw pldennison. The one I saw ended with a wedding between Anakin and the senator, Anakin replete with new glow-in-the-dark arm. Now maybe the hopped a passing medical transport with no communications ability and got dropped off at a remote monastery with no communications, but I would have though there was ample opportunity in AOTC to tell the entire galaxy about it. “>>>>The senator does know -- but she also happens to be in love with him and knows that he did it after those in question kidnapped and murdered his mother. You think she's about to turn him in?” Well, yeh. She is supposed to be one of the good guys, as is he. By acting as an accessory to his behaviour and marrying him despite it bith she and he cease to be good by any standard I can understand.
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#37
05-25-2002, 07:21 AM
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I saw the movie last night, myself, and it just begs for nitpicking and deconstruction. The mortality of the clone/slaves has been pretty much hashed out, but I'm curious about the Jedis themselves. Didn't Yoda send "all remaining Jedi" to the rescue? Strangely, that seems to be only about 30 guys, tops, including all the senior members. How many Jedi are there and if their numbers are that small, how can they keep the peace in any social structure larger than a typical college campus? Is that the best they can do when one of their own is in trouble? They all would have slaughtered but for the arrival of the clone army. I don't see the Jedi as being numerous or powerful enough to keep the peace in a Republic consisting of thousands of worlds. It's comparable to one regiment of Green Berets trying to act as sole U.N. peacekeepers on Earth; no matter how skilled they are individually, there simpy aren't enough of them.
Of course, the saccharine scenes with the Jedi kidlets is tolerable only because we know that most or all of them are going to be slaughtered eventually. Was anyone else expecting Jango's severed head to fall out the helmet when Boba picked it up?
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#38
05-25-2002, 08:24 AM
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#39
05-25-2002, 08:56 AM
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Fascinating. On one hand, in response to the idea that there's more happening than we see on the screen, PLD says:
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Consistancy. Ever the watchword of the obsessive fan.Fenris PS: I conceed the point that my "Emperor stamped out slavery" comment was way wrong. I'd forgotten about the "Jabba's Place" scene somehow when I wrote that. (Which is funny, since I just re-watched Jedi a week ago!) PPS: SPOOFESTER: Couldja pop into this thread? I *think* I gotcha on a bit of Star Wars trivia! 
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#40
05-25-2002, 10:09 AM
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Yeah, Fenris, but if you concede the point, then I was right on both counts, so there. :P
I re-watched all three of the OT last week, too, and I will concede that Natalie Portman's AOTC acting is the worst I have seen in any of the five movies. Which is a shame, because she's shown in movies like Heat, Beautiful Girls and Leon that she's capable of superlative work. I blame Lucas 100% for that, since he's the guy who decides whether he got the shot or not.
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#41
05-25-2002, 10:20 AM
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Quote:
L'il Anakin was pretty damned wooden, but :: shrugs :: there ain't all that many great kid actors out there. Except for the bad monologue towards the end of Phantom Menace ("Jeepers. What-does-THIS-button-do. Maybe-I-should-press-it.")* his performance was mostly cringe-less. But Big Anakin... :: shudder :: I hated his performance. Every tortured line ("Da sands. O' Tat. Tew'een, dey arh ruff. But your skin, It is smoot'. ")* he uttered, every clumsy "Dah scrip sez ta look at da goil here. So I will now look at da goil here" gesture. I never once forgot that whoever-he-was was an actor, not the character. I cringed through most of his "sincere" bits. (He wasn't bad during the action sequences when he had to keep his yap shut though.) Fenris *Exaggerated for humorous effect
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