Disclaimer: I’ve only seen the movies and are very vaguely aware of the EU; if there are “official” sources on this please point me to those.
*Is there a such thing as “Orthodox Jedi Beliefs”? Do Jedi HAVE serious theological disagreements outside of the obvious Jedi/Sith split?
*Do the Jedi have any sacred scripture/apocrypha?
*Are Jedi ranks earned or endowed via ordination?
*Is there a Jedi catechism?
*Do Jedi scholars debate how many midochlorians can dance on the head of a pin?
I can’t really answer the “theological” questions, but I can direct you to an official source. It’s really the only official source, since Extended Universe materials (and, to a lesser degree, the films themselves) are works in progress and can become outdated.
They seem to basically be analogous to some idealized form of, well, knights. Religious scholarly warrior type guys who get dispatched to settle disputes and bring peace/put down and/or encourage rebellion as needed. From what little I’ve seen, I get the impression that the balance between the various sides (cop, scholar, etc.) probably depends a lot on the individual Jedi (and whoever is writing the story for that round)
That’s what I don’t get – how is faith even a part of it? Why is it a religion at all? Unlike real religions, it’s based on a scientific, verifiable fact – the existence and use of “midichlorians”. Shouldn’t it just be another branch of science in the Star Wars universe?
Well, I’m not a bit SW fan, but from what I’ve gathered, even though the midichlorians were ‘known’ to be a link to the Force, scientific investigation of them had not really answered all the questions about the nature of the Force. It was much more along the level of ‘soft sciences’ such as sociological statistics and psychological theories… they knew that there was a correlation between midichlorian count and Force potential, but couldn’t really explain how the midichlorians interacted with the Force, whether the Force was physical energy or metaphysical, etcetera.
On the other hand, they did seem to have ‘theological’ differences of opinion on the nature of the force - This page has some of the differing opinions. I can definitely picture Qwi-Gon Jinn and Yoda having a formal debate on the Living Force versus the Unifying Force.
Even leaving aside the midichloran thing, there’s a lot of pretty strong evidence for the existence of the Force. Anyone who’s had lightning blasted at them by a creepy old guy could attest to that.
I guess people in the Star Wars universe have a different conception of religion than we do. That guy who Darth Vader Force-chokes in Star Wars makes fun of his “religion,” but it doesn’t make any sense that he simply didn’t believe the Force existed, since the Jedi only went into hiding something like twenty years prior to that and Darth Vader didn’t seem too shy about strangling subordinates from orbit.
Of course, Han Solo seems pretty dismissive of it, too. Maybe people in the SW universe just have really, really high standards of evidence.
The Force is a fact in that universe, but the Jedi have their own beliefs: the existence of a light and a dark side, their sayings about “hate leads to anger” and such (maybe that’d be their catechism - I’d love to see a priest deliver a sermon while speaking like Yoda the whole time). They have at least some rules about conduct, and presumably people get kicked out for not following them. In the second or third movie, there was a bunch of talk about how Jedi aren’t allowed to love. There was also apparently a belief in a chosen one, although what he was supposed to do, like “bringing balance to the Force,” wasn’t defined. So it’s a faith on some level. I think comparing them to knights and monks makes sense. They’re not cops, they’re really sort of a militia, and in the prequels that status ends up being used against them.
During Vader’s first appearance in the real first movie, doesn’t Tarkin dismiss Jedi as an old religion? If I’m remembering it right, he’s clearly not suggesting the Force isn’t real, because he watches Darth strangle a guy with the “I squish your head” gesture and doesn’t bat an eyelash; it probably happens at least once a week. He’s saying the Jedi religion, with its “everything is part of a duality” mush-headedness, is extinct.
By the time of Episode IV, the emperor had been running anti-Jedi propaganda for almost 20 years. This started out merely casting them in a bad light, but probably had started casting doubts as to their abilities by this point. Han and that guy on the Death Star were only believing what they had been told since they were small children.
This brings to mind the old trope of “scientists” not believing that something odd is occuring when it is clearly before their eyes, when any rational person in the real world would start an investigation into it, but we need a disbelieving antagonist for dramatic tension.
(Or if it’s a children’s book, substitute “parents” for “pseudorational scientists”.)
I still don’t really see how this would work. Even someone in his 50’s would have been around to know what the Jedi were capable of. Even if there were some “Talk about the Jedi and we’ll kill you” rule, you wouldn’t think that a lot of people who flat-out not believe in the Force.
Heck, Han Solo hung out with people who absolutely knew for a fact that the Force was real, like Jabba the Hutt, Boba Fett, and Chewbacca.
I thought the “Jedi have only been gone for 20 years” bit was a mistake too, until I thought about it a little more in depth.
There are hundreds, maybe even thousands, of planets in the Republic. This encompasses billions, maybe even trillions, of people.
There are maybe a few thousand Jedi, at best.
Therefore, it’s more than likely that most of the population has never even seen a Jedi from a distance, let alone interacted with one to see Force powers up close. To most of the Republic, Jedi were mythical beings who may or may not be able to do the things people say they can do even before the Emperor. Combine that with anti-Jedi sentiment after it becomes the Empire (remember, the Jedi were blamed for the Separtist movement) and you have a population that begins to think the Jedi are a myth.
It’s possible that folks who were dismissive about “some old hokey religion”, like Han Solo, merely disbelieved the spiritual beliefs and connotations of the Force, but not the obvious existance of the Force.
In other words, I can believe that Lord Vader has the power to choke someone from a distance. If you work with him long enough, you’ll see it in action.
What I may not believe, however, is where exactly this power comes from, and whatever rituals and supernatural “prophecy” clap-trap that gets dragged along with it by various priest sects. That’s not to say that I would sneer at Vader. I would keep my opinions to myself.
I could believe that if either of them had any appearance of being in their 20s. They both looked to be well into their thirties, pushing 40 pretty hard to me, and so both should have had very clear memories of a time before the Empire. To me, having the Jedi extermination and the foundation of the Empire come so close upon each other’s heels was one of the many, many mistakes Lucas made with the prequels.
An explanation a friend of mine gave for how quickly public opinion turned on the Jedi that sort of made sense to me is that most people’s experience with Jedi is limited to when one of them showed up at the door and said: “Hi, your infant has midochlorian levels over 9000, I’ll take care of him from now on.”
That’s basically what I figured, which means that the conception of “religion” in the Star Wars-verse isn’t quite what it is for most people here.
I think that Qui-Gon says something to Anakin’s mom about him not having been screened for Jedi-ness at birth or something, and that’s on a remote planet, so while the Jedi themselves might have been few in number, it seems like they had a fairly expansive presence in the Republic.
I do agree with you, though, Justin_Bailey, although rather than a “myth,” I’d maybe say “frauds” or something. Unless there’s some doublespeak going on the Emperor needed them to exist so that he could blame everything on them, at least at first.
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