5 year old girl raped and killed and more are expected...

[Cubsfan]

I don't really feel like swearing or ranting a whole lot. I just don't know what can be done to stop stuff like this from happening.

People like the person that did this anger and frighten me on so many different levels that its hard to just yell "Fuck you goat felcher shit eater etc..." because that just doesn't make me feel better.

I have a 3 year old little girl and she lives with her mom. We are still very close and I have her several days a week. But what if some fuck does something like this to her when I am not around? What do you do? Shes my baby and I would lose my mind for good if someone did this to her. It angers me because I know that I would kill the person that did something like this without hesitation and that would make me a murderer ala "A Time to Kill". I am not generally murderous though.

I just don't get what makes people do something like this. It doesn't make any sense.

How do we protect ourselves and our children from stuff like this? I hope this POS gets caught and put straight in the chair and put down to hell where he belongs. Along with anyone else that would even consider doing things like this.

http://www.msnbc.com/news/781040.asp?pne=msn

[Kricket]

Another child to cry for.
What in the hell is going on?

[Mockingbird]

I concur, Kricket.

*sigh*

It really makes me wonder what things are coming to.

[Arden Ranger]

*goes to annoy her children by hugging them "too much"*

[dreamer]

There are no words to express the sadness.

[Mockingbird]

Originally posted by Arden Ranger
*goes to annoy her children by hugging them "too much"*

That is the most wonderful thing I have seen or read today.

[techchick68]

I had serious tears over this outcome. I can't imagine what her parents are going through. My God, it has to be the worst that anyone has ever gone through.

It's just un-fucking-believable that there are actually people on this Earth that would do such a horrific thing to a child. My heart hurts for all parents of children.

I am not one to have kids but that little girl was just being a little girl and someone hurt her and killed her. FUCK, we have a strange fucking life. This shit was just not known to me as a kid, we knew not to talk to strangers but this asshole took her away kicking and screaming.

WTF is wrong with our world if a little girl can't go out and play in her yard?

< tears >

[Tranquilis]

[Bricker]

I don't think it's just "these days" - I think there have always been, walking among us, creatures that look human, but are capable of such vile actions. These alleged humans are either born like this... or maybe other monsters did enough to them that they became like this. Either way... it is horrible.

At ten months old, our baby son is trusting and accepting of strangers. He sees anyone and he holds out his arms to be picked up, grinning his four-toothed grin and charming anyone who sees him.

How sad it is that we will have to explain to him, over and over, that he cannot trust anyone he doesn't know. And that even adults he knows have boundries.

My heart weeps for that poor little girl, and her family. They will be in my prayers this week.

- Rick

[belladonna]

Are things getting worse? It doesn't seem so, but that fact does nothing to end the anguish of this family today. I can't imagine how her playmate is dealing with it, or the victim's grandmother, who was the one watching them. I'd feel so guilty, and so helpless, and so angry, and so confused.....
It's things like this that make me desperately hope that there is a heaven of some kind. As horrid as that little girls last moments were, it's only fair that she be compensated somehow.

And to the cowardly beast that did this; I wish nothing more for you than that you be treated with the same level of consideration and humanity that you have chosen to treat others with. I hope that little girl's spirit haunts you until the day you die alone, unloved, and unmourned.

[LolaCocaCola]

There truly is evil in this world.

[Milossarian]

Did you see the little girl's photo? So happy and angelic.

When my mind begins to imagine what her last moments on earth were like ...

For what it's worth (virtually nothing, in the wake of such a senseless, brutal, devastating loss), there are a group of VERY MOTIVATED police officers looking to remove the vermin responsible for this from society.

PLEASE get the job done before "it" does it again.

[Feynn]

This is my greatest fear, that something like this could happen to one of my children, or our neighbours children, or really... anyone's child. My oldest daughter is almost five and looks like Samantha with her curly auburn locks, dark eyes, and loving smile.

My greatest fear has become someone elses reality. They must be in hell.

They are not going to get their beloved daughter back because some demon in the form of a man took her away, raped her, and then murdered her. Samantha's last moments of life must have been horrific.

There is sadness and there is rage in me at reading this.

I would offer my sympathies to this family as a father of my own little girls but would disagree with them on wanting vengeance.

There should be no mercy and no quarter given. The killer of this precious child left enough evidence that there should be no doubt to his identity when he is caught. Once this has been established I say kill him slowly. Viciously. Painfully.

Those who prey on our children should suffer the most severe punishment imaginable. Our society has no place for monsters that prey on children.

[JRDelirious]

Quote from the other 5-year-old:

"Then he stole my friend[...]"

God, reading that felt like a mule kick in the guts...
One child's life, another's innocence.

Once they catch the beast, I say let him live for the time being... but make sure the lifers in Maximum Security have a look at that little girl's picture... so they'll be waiting for him.

[airdisc]

And the worst part is, in my mind, reading stuff like this doesn't affect me at all. I've just become desentized (sp) to it. Although I'm still wondering why the torture and burning of a kitten got me angry, but this, I just felt nothing.

[Lodrain]

Damned world. It's getting to the point where I'd be extremely reluctant to bring a child into being, what with where the world seems to be spiralling down into. There's always been child molestors and remorseless moral zeros, but what the hell sort of person does this? One-third of all women are sexually assaulted at least once in their lives - my mother and my sister are two, for example. We're no better off now than we were in the age when women were considered property - and from this bit of news, we may even be worse.

Burn in whatever circle of hell is reserved for thoughtless condom breaks like yourself.

[ElwoodCuse]

Yes, the people that do this are evil and no punishment is too harsh for them.

But I'm really sick of the way the media covers these stories. Child kidnappings are this summer's shark attacks. I would be very surprised to learn that this summer has significantly more missing children than any previous years. 2001 actually had FEWER shark attacks than 2000, but they were reported like mad. I am willing to bet it's more or less the same deal with missing children.

There are, sadly, many children in this country that face such a plight. However, the media circus surrounding a precious few of these cases (especially if they are white middle class girls) is shameful.

[kung fu lola]

The perpetrator of this horrific crime is not a demon or a monster. He is a human being (I am reluctant to call him a "person", which I guess is my own concession to my wrath). The same God who made me, made him as well.

[UrbanChic]

Elwood, when the person who did this to Samantha is still at large, the media damn well had better report it.

[Arnold Winkelried]

The mother gave some interviews to the media (to ask the kidnapper to return her little girl) until the body of her daughter was found. In the Los Angeles Times it was reported that she did her best to teach her daughter what to do if someone grabbed her. I found it especially heartbreaking to read that Samantha cried out "Help me! Tell my grandmother!" as the man grabbed her. Even though I know that this (kidnapping of a child by a stranger) is a rare event¹, reading this article filled me with the sad knowledge that whatever you teach your children, they are vulnerable to a determined killer.

¹In the Los Angeles Times a spokeswoman for for the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children said that these cases are very rare, 200 to 300 a year (which of course is 300 too many.)

[Thurgin]

Normally, I am a big fan of the death penalty.

But for this whackjob, I really do hope they don't kill him. Just put him in general population, and let nature take it's course.

I'm sure that all of the fathers in with him, that don't get to see their daughters will be more than happy to point out the error of his ways.

With a fucking lamp.

There is absolutely no possible excuse that who ever did this could use to escape punishment. Not abuse, not insanity, not mindcontrol from some buttnugget on Regulus. None.

Turn the piece of shit over to the inmates and walk away.

[Milossarian]

Arnold: 300 cases a year? I don't think so. They must be lumping domestic kidnappings of children (custody battle-stuff) in with that, too.

Elwood: You don't find it the least bit unusual that a 5-year-old is dragged away by a predator, kicking and screaming in broad daylight, is raped and left dead in a pile along the side of the road?

This summer's shark attacks???

What happened here and in Utah got the attention it did because it just doesn't happen.

www.missingkids.com Has a link to a report by the State of Washington's attorney general and the U.S. Department of Justice's Office of Juvenile Justice.

The report notes:

The murder of a child who is abducted by a stranger is
a rare event. There are estimated to be about 100
such incidents in the United States each year, less
than one-half of one percent of the murders
committed. There is approximately one child
abduction murder for every 10,000 reports of a
missing child.
The victims of these cases are "average" children,
leading normal lives, and living with normal families,
typical low-risk victims. The vast majority of them are
girls (76%), with the average age being slightly over
11 years of age. In 80% of cases, the initial contact
between the victim and killer is within 1/4 mile of the
victim's residence.

The report also notes that if the child is murdered, it's usually within 3 hours of abduction.


airdisc: Sucks to be you.

kung fu lola: Your opinion is noted. Some put additional qualifiers on what constitutes a human being and rightful member of a society, however.

[KismetRose]

When I heard about where the body was found and how quickly, how out in the open it was, I got a different message from it than the cops. The man moved with speed when he took her. He only had her for a few hours before he dumped her body. He left it out in the open, as if to say: Look what I did. That's what bothered me. It reminded me of how cats will bring their kills to the doorsteps of their masters. Look what I did.
Every day, my decision not to have children looks like a better one, and it was good enough when I subconsciously made it as a child. You can't leave your children anywhere: not at school, not at church, not even in your own back yard. Strangers are actually the least of a parent's worries - family members, friends and neighbors are far more likely to be the culprits.
On the news this morning, I saw a hidden camera test that was done in Ohio to see if kids would talk to a stranger who offered them ice cream. The kids had just received a don't-talk-to-strangers lesson at school. All but one child talked to the stranger. The newscasters were aghast, and one said that kids are taught to trust adults. Adults are supposed to be responsible. They're supposed to take care of kids. And I wish to Christ all adults did. Then I wouldn't have the memories I do, and others wouldn't either. And that poor girl wouldn't be so very dead.
I wish I could tend her family personally. I wish I could take them each in my arms, one at a time, and tell them that so long as there is one person in the world willing to do good, we are not all human monsters.

[Feynn]

Originally posted by kung fu lola
The perpetrator of this horrific crime is not a demon or a monster. He is a human being (I am reluctant to call him a "person", which I guess is my own concession to my wrath). The same God who made me, made him as well.

What God would create a being like this? You seem to be a fine and decent person but this other thing that now walks the earth and is a demon that may be looking for another victim as I write this.

[kung fu lola]

Originally posted by Feynn
What God would create a being like this? You seem to be a fine and decent person but this other thing that now walks the earth and is a demon that may be looking for another victim as I write this.

I am trying to practice this thing called "radical compassion". Part of it is having the grace to wish mercy on those who deserve it the least.

To answer your question, Feynn, IMHO God created this man with free will. Who knows where he picked up his twisted compulsions, complete lack of empathy and absence of judgement.

[KismetRose]

What God would create a being like this? You seem to be a fine and decent person but this other thing that now walks the earth and is a demon that may be looking for another victim as I write this.

I once heard it said that a truly infinite being would be incomprehensible to the human mind. Perhaps this is evidence?
I know the man is human. I know he is a person. I've seen men like him, and for all their derangements, they're human. I think that humanity encompasses a far greater range of emotions and actions than most people would like to think about. I think that people go about calling perpetrators monsters and demons because that gives us all some distance - the "good folk" and the "monsters" are placed apart. It helps people feel better. I've had people almost violently assert that murderers are a different species.
If only that were true. Everything would be so much simpler.
But murderers were children once. Murderers often have living parents, spouses and even children. Even murderers can be loved by people close to them, and valued. Some murderers, like the late Jeffrey Dahmer, were well liked by most people in their neighborhoods. How would you feel if your child committed a murder, and then someone said that they weren't human? What if it was your husband, cousin or friend? What if you watched someone grow up and they became a killer? You would know how human murderers are then. The taking of a life does not erase the past, no matter how much we'd like to believe that it nullifies everything for the perpetrator.

[Happy Lendervedder]

When I first read this story in the paper this morning, I felt sick to my stomach, and re-reading it here makes me sick all over again.

Originally posted by Stinkpalm
I don't really feel like swearing or ranting a whole lot.

I know what you mean. I'm just shaking my head and saying a prayer for the family. And feeling sick.

What makes me the saddest is thinking how scared she must have been.

[Rotten Candy]

I am starting to believe that there is no god. I don't know of any deity that would allow this to happen to a child. Dammit, the little girl has done nothing to deserve this.

[JohnBckWLD]

This one hit closest to home for me. Worse than Susan Smith, the bathtub drownings, or that arkansas father who's children cooked to death in their car seats while he went bow hunting.

I talked about it with mmy kids tonight and reinforced all the "what do we do if a stranger is going to kidnap you" rules

Like Feynn, my youngest is 5 and looks like Samantha Runnion too. In fact, I think they share a birthday.

Like JRDelirious, that quote by her friend affected me too (almost as much as the son asking his Mom "what did we do wrong?" before being held underwater).

Unlike Thurgin, I feel imprisonment is much too compassionate a punishment, as is Stinkpalm's call to fry him. If that was my little one, I'd pay off the authorities what ever it took to let me in a room with him and personally beat the living fuck out of this subhuman, festering slime to within an inch of his life then tear his filthy balls off his body and ram them down his throat until he suffocated on them. But that's just me, an overly emotional father venting his disgust with certain sectors of our society.

[Scoundrel Swanswater]

I don't wish to bring more gloom and despair to an already depressing thread, but during my time in SA I found out that things like this are almost day-to-day business in South-Africa. Some local legend has it that you will be cured from AIDS if you have sex with a virgin.

Since a large part of the South African population has AIDS (especially in the townships around the big cities) men will only be sure someone is a virgin when it is still a baby.

So now you have gangs of HIV-infected people breaking into houses to rape babies. How fucked up can this world get !! I know it is naive to think that things were better in the past, but I would pay for a ticket into the timemachine within a heartbeat.



Any god that condones shit like this, is no god of mine.

[teela brown]

They've made an arrest. I'm still reading it.

[Shodan]

Do you understand what I mean when I say that some actions sginal to the world that you no longer deserve to live?

No doubt the one who did this was made into a monster by years of systematic abuse. Most such murderers are.

But it doesn't change anything. It doesn't help.

Regards,
Shodan

I think I will go "annoy my kids" as well.

[No Dragons Here]

When you first hear about these abductions you always hope it is a custody fight or something, and that the child will be returned safely. Then the body shows up, like in the Polly Klass case, and you learn there is a monster out there.

We talk to the kids (girls 4 and 6) and explain that there is no playing in the front yard anymore, only in the back (this greatly reduces skating and biking). We talk with the neighbors and set up informal watches. I clean and oil my shotgun, make sure I know where the key is, and check all windows and doors twice before going to bed. I don't sleep.

It's weird, but I stopped believing in monsters a long time ago when I was a kid, and now that I have kids I believe in them again. There really is no other applicable term for this type of person. You can try to have compasion for him but that doesn't make him less of a monster, anymore than understanding hunger makes a shark less of a shark.

BTW he (if it turns out to be Avila) won't be put in with the general prison population unless the arresting officials screw up really badly, which doesn't happen too often anymore locally. If the process proceeds as usual (and is convicted) he will go through appeals and will face a needle in a minimum of seven years (I think, though it might be as few as five.) Bastard.

[Cessandra]

Originally posted by Milossarian
Arnold: 300 cases a year? I don't think so. They must be lumping domestic kidnappings of children (custody battle-stuff) in with that, too...

www.missingkids.com Has a link to a report by the State of Washington's attorney general and the U.S. Department of Justice's Office of Juvenile Justice.

The report notes:

"The murder of a child who is abducted by a stranger is a rare event. There are estimated to be about 100 such incidents in the United States each year, less than one-half of one percent of the murders committed. There is approximately one child abduction murder for every 10,000 reports of a missing child. The victims of these cases are "average" children, leading normal lives, and living with normal families, typical low-risk victims. The vast majority of them are
girls (76%), with the average age being slightly over 11 years of age. In 80% of cases, the initial contact between the victim and killer is within 1/4 mile of the victim's residence."

The report also notes that if the child is murdered, it's usually within 3 hours of abduction.

Re-read your quote. It's talking about how many stranger-abductions end in the child's death, not how many stranger abductions there are per year. From msnbc:

About 200 to 300 children are taken in such kidnappings by strangers each year, Allen said, with about 100 of those kids found murdered.

[Cessandra]

PS, the article also states that:

By contrast, most of the more than 350,000 children abducted in America each year are taken by relatives.

[Monty]

Just heard on the news that Avila had been tried and acquitted for a child molesting case before. What was the reason for the acquittal?

[teela brown]

I haven't heard the reason for the acquittal yet, but it appears the two girls he allegedly molested previously lived in the same townhome complex as Samantha.

[45/70]

This one has John Hinkley written all over it. Mentally incapible of standing trial. He has a long and comfortable life with no worries.

[RZA]

I bet she gave good head.

[Lynn Bodoni]

RZA, that was completely over the top and out of line. Do NOT say anything like that again, or you will lose your posting privileges here. You almost lost them for this one post.

Lynn Bodoni
Administrator
For the Straight Dope

[belladonna]

RZA--Lynn didn't close this, so I'm assuming that the floor's open to tell you what a sick, sadistic, and completely fucking disgusting person you seem to be. I don't know if you were trying to be shocking, or sardonic, or god-forbid, funny, but the only thing you came across as is heartless. That was a five-year-old little girl. She had parents who loved her, and read her bed-time stories. She probably liked to play games like Go Fish and Chutes and Ladders. Going to McDonalds to play in the funhouse was likely the highlight of her month. She lived, and breathed, and had her entire life ahead of her. Now she won't get any older. She won't make it to graduation, or a first job, or a wedding, or a birthing room. She had everything stolen from her, and she spent her last hours being assulted in the worst possible way. And you're going to come in here, where people are trying deal with the horror of those facts, and make some asinine comment about her sexual abilities?
SHE WAS FIVE YEARS OLD!
I pray to god you never have children. You don't deserve them.

[Cubsfan]

Originally posted by RZA
I bet she gave good head.

You must be fucking kidding me? If you said some shit like that in my physical presence you would not be walking away under your own power.

[PunditLisa]

Read that Avila was acquitted after a jury trial but they didn't give any more details. If he did this crime, may God have mercy on his wretched, demented soul. And may the justice system show him none.

I can't believe someone can criticize the media for reporting this. You compare the kidnap, assault, and murder of a little 5 year old with a shark attack? Um, no. See that shark probably *accidentally* bit a human. Chances are very, very high that he'll never bite another person again.

Can't say the same thing about the human predator.

Every stranger abduction should make national news, IMO. Every one of them. Silence is a perpetrator's friend.

RZA, lacking attention today?

[Tranquilis]

Stinkpalm, please, no threats. RZA isn't worth it. I fully understand your motivation, though.

[airdisc]

I think RZA was joking, people.

Though I will admit that I can name 10 different things that all happened on 9/11 that were funnier than his joke.

[Monty]

airdisc:

Some jokes aren't worth telling and some jokesters aren't worth listening to.

[Ludovic]

This is really beyond words. I second the thought that if it were to happen to a relative of mine, the perp would not have long to live. I'm not proud of that, in fact its sort of scary.

However, I wonder if it will cause some more tripe about "locking them up and throwing away the key", even if they are not guilty. After all,THIS HAPPENED when the guy was acquitted, might as well throw everyone in jail just to be sure. I bet lots of falsely accused perps are assaulted in prison, in effect sentenced to the same crime they didnt commit.

That being said, if the guy is guilty, I would be happy to have that fate befall him.

Even a Louima-style.

[OliverTwistofLime]

After years of court appearances, appeals and what not, Avila will either get life without parole or possibly death by lethal injection. Lethal injection is no more painful than a blood test.

What I would like to see is putting this man in prison with very hungry sodomists and give Avila an opportunity to suffer day in and day out just part of what took place between the 5 year old and himself.

If this were allowed, I truly believe it would be a deterrent to others contemplating kidnapping and harming priceless children.

If I remember correctly, after a capital crime is committed in China, the culprits photo is posted in the village and by the end of the month, the perpetrator ceases to exist.

Am I speaking from raw emotion only? No!

[Ruffian]

Some information about Alejandro Avila, the arrested suspect, courtesy the John and Ken Radio Show here in LA on KFI AM 640. (Web site: www.johnandkenshow.com)

From last night's show:

1) Avila's father murdered a neighbor. He was arrested, tried, and convicted, and now walks the streets on parole.

2) Avila's brother was murdered in what was suspected to be a Mexican mafia hit.

3) Avila's ex-girlfriend's-daughter lived with her bio father in the same condo/apartment complex as Samantha Runnion. Avila was known to visit the area frequently to see this ex's daughter. (Creeeeepy!)

4) Avila's landlord observed him behaving oddly around his light green Thunderbird, including closely inspecting the undercarriage and changing all 4 tires the day her body was found.

5) Avila was not a legal resident of the apartment complex where he was arrested. He just sometimes lived with his mom, other times his sister, etc.

6) Those who knew Avila (from school and whatnot) are not giving positive descriptions. "Creepy" is a common adjective; he apparently was known to discuss sexually inappropriate things at work.

And now, the truly hideous. Warning: This is a description of how the littel girl's body was found--and why it freaked out the 911 caller as much as it did. Eeeeeek...

SPOILER:

Samantha's body was found off the side of the road, face up. She was naked, her eyes and mouth were open, and *shudder* her legs open in a spread-eagle position, bent at the knee. Holy hell.

I hope to God Avila is the cause of this shit, because I can't bear the thought that a monster that would do such a thing is still roaming the streets.

I know another will come replace him as time progresses, but I'm hoping that at least for now, there is one less.

[VDarlin]

Originally posted by Ruffian
3) Avila's ex-girlfriend's-daughter lived with her bio father in the same condo/apartment complex as Samantha Runnion. Avila was known to visit the area frequently to see this ex's daughter. (Creeeeepy!)

One more point about this fact. The ex's daughter is one of the two girls that Avila was previously charged with sexually assaulting, but eventually had the charges against him dropped. The little girl was 9 years old at the time.

*shudder*

I really, really, hope that they've got the right guy, and by the looks of it, they do.

~V