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#1
08-10-2002, 06:44 PM
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Shane MacGowan, you're a drunken loser
Last Thursday night, I attended a Shane MacGowan concert in Utrecht, the Netherlands. This time, the Popes would be the accompanying band.
Ready for some good old fashioned Irish fun, I boarded the train to Utrecht on time. I was supposed to meet up with my mate Willy at 20:00 at "Kafe Belgie", right across the venue where the concert was to be held a 20:15. Knowing mr MacGowan is not exactly a man of the clock, we had two beers at the bar first. Around 20:45, we crossed the street and entered the 35 degrees celcius hellhole that is the Tivoli theater. The opening act was still playing. If you're interested in folk-renditions of late 70's Dutch disco songs, these are the guys to check out. Unfortunately, I don't have a fucking clue about their name. They did serve a valid purpose, though. In between songs, they kept us abreast of the whereabouts of mr MacGowan. 21:00 "We just got the word that Shane is currently boarding a plane in London" Willy and me start laughing. In fact, the whole audience does. Partially out of relief, because sometimes MacGowan doesn't show up at all. 21:30 "Shane is airborne. He's expected on stage round 23:00" After this the opening act vanished and all further announcements where made over the PA, where they interupted such classics as mr Cash's "Ring of Fire" and "Whiskey in the Jar" as performed by the Dubliners. 22:45 "Shane has landed, and is in a car headed for Utrecht" At 23:15, mr MacGowan walks onto the stage on crutches (his body is too worn out from years and years of alcohol and drugs), carrying a 1 liter bottle of what looked like Gin (he likes his G&T's or so I hear). That bottle lasted about 4 songs, by the way. It was like watching Elvis three weeks before he died. Actually, to quote Willy: "No fucking way. Elvis was never in THIS bad a shape!". He looked like shit. At least his clothes were vomit-free, which is a bonus, as seasoned Pogues fans told me. And he slurred his speech and lyrics. From all he said in between songs, all I could make out were a couple of "go fuck yerselves" and "fuck the English". The songs? Man, I know the sequence of all Pogues verses better than Shane does. But those songs. Those compositions. C'mon, who can honestly tell me they can listen to songs like Dirty old Town and Rainy night in Soho without getting a tad choked up? He's such a brilliant songwriter. He could have gotten so much more out of it. But he decided to drop the muse, and lift the booze. How his lovely wife keeps up with him, I'll ever know. Shane, thanks man. I got home at 3 AM after taking the night train and a taxi (which added 15 euros to my trip, again, thanks). I was hung over the next morning. I saw you put on a mediocre show, with a formidable folk band (truth be old, the Popes rocked the house). I saw you making a drunken ass of yourself. And it may have been the first and last time I've ever seen you alive. Wasted talent. Such a shame. You're a drunken loser, and I love you man. 
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#3
08-10-2002, 08:22 PM
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I once saw the artist Robert Rauschenberg give a lecture at the National Gallery of Art in DC.
He was so clearly drunk, and went through a couple of big tumblers full of Jack during the lecture, that during the question and answer period an audience member asked him, "Why are you blind drunk in front of your audience?" His reply was, "Why are you such a bitch?". Out came the curator to end a very painful event that never should have been allowed to happen. I worked at the Gallery, and Raushenberg was drunk and offensive during the entire installation of his exhibit (about two weeks). He carried a bottle of Jack Daniels at all times, and no one said a word to him about it, he was such a "genius".
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#4
08-10-2002, 08:35 PM
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I saw Shane and the Popes in Austin a couple of years ago. I had heard all the horror stories about him having to be carried out onto the stage and propped up while he sang, and he had been a complete no-show in Dallas the night before, but he came running out on stage and yelled, "Hello, San Francisco!" and put on a great show. (He was guzzling whiskey that night, by the way.)
I'll be sorry when he goes, but I'm surprised he's even made it this far considering how long I've been hearing stories like Coldfire's.
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#5
08-10-2002, 08:37 PM
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It's an awful shame. I saw The Pogues play back in 1989, and to be honest it sounds like he hasn't changed much--although he sounds far worse for the wear he's put himself through.
Soon enough, he's going to be another one lost to the ravages of the bottle.
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#6
08-11-2002, 09:54 AM
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Yeah, I caught the Pogues in '89 too, in Atlanta. They put on a great show here, and Shane seemed fine.
Sad to see what he's come to these days. Here's hoping he finds a way to pull himself together. (Ah Javamaven. As always, my musical doppelganger...)
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#7
08-11-2002, 04:23 PM
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I saw Jimi Hendrix play three times. The first two times he was amazing. The last time, at a concert at Madison Square Garden, he played a couple of numbers very slackly, then sat down on the floor, where he slumped picking desultorily on his guitar. He was obviously nodding out. He finally left the stage, and someone came on to apologize because Jimi "wasn't feeling well." A few months later he was dead.
Makes you weep.
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#9
08-11-2002, 05:05 PM
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He's an artist Coldfire. You wait for him like a supplicant, drink at the fountain of his muse then speak ill of him as a "drunken loser" in his decline? Who are you to judge him and the life decisions he has made in pursuing his art and his life. Just be less arrogant and more grateful for the music he gave you when you go back to your workaday life.
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#10
08-11-2002, 06:57 PM
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I'm not arrogant, astro, and I see him for the true songwriter he is. Read the last words of the OP again, if you must.
Is it impossible to admire someone for their talent, and at the same time be pissed off at them for pissing it all away? I don't think it is. I'm not judging MacGowan. I just know he could have been so much more.
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#11
08-11-2002, 07:48 PM
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Shane is fucking wasting his life. He has an incredible talent and is throwing it away.
The sad thing is it is his to throw away. Every Pogues fan knows this. They curse him for his indulgences which are cutting his life short, and they thank him for all the joy he has given them. The Popes are incredible. Absolutely incredible. especially a instrumental song they do called "Release the Beast".
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#12
08-11-2002, 09:02 PM
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I saw Shane with the Popes at the Fillmore in San Francisco last summer with zyzzyva and woodstockbirdybird and he put on a kickass show. Yeah, he was obviously drunk, but it didn't seem to impair his performance.
Though we did get a laugh when, before "Whiskey in the Jar" he slurred "Thissch ish a schong about DRINKIN'!" Aren't they all? So I'm sorry you had a bad Shane-night, Coldy, cuz when he's on he's on. What a great show it was!
__________________
Not all who wander are lost. -JRRT I absorb trust like a love rhombus.
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#13
08-12-2002, 05:52 AM
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Quote:
If you're an artist, you have a duty to your audience to do the best work you can. If you half-ass it, show up drunk and forget the words, you can expect to be judged. You don't want to be bothered with the whole performing thing, then don't book the gig. What if Shane booked a show and no one came?
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#14
08-12-2002, 06:09 AM
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Just musing that the healthiest part of the man is probably........his teeth. Now there's a thought.
A lot of people like their rock stars wasted but there has to be a line. Even Keef Richards knew/knows that
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#15
08-12-2002, 06:13 AM
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"Dirty old Town" wasn't written by Shane - it's by Ewan McColl (Kirsty's father) and is IIRC about Cardiff, not Dublin.
Shane's been fucking up his gigs like that for the past 20 years. he got booed in Dublin a few years ago for the same reason. I don't see any reason for him to change.
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#17
08-12-2002, 06:56 AM
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I read his biography recently (the one bizarrely narrated by his wife). An interesting chap, although I was never quite sure how mcuh was genuine or not. He certainly fails to show people the respect his book would imply he always meant to deep down.
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#18
08-12-2002, 07:03 AM
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jjimm, Dirty Old Town is about Salford, not Cardiff.
http://www.geocities.com/derekantrobus/SLHhome.html http://www.southpenninering.co.uk/mbb/salford.htm You're welcome 
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#19
08-12-2002, 07:04 AM
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Crusoe, ignore every word written in that book, for it is all rubbish, and he says so himself.
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#21
08-12-2002, 07:34 AM
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I went to the Pogues gig in Dublin a few months ago.
I wasn't expecting too much from McGowan, but the lineup was to good to be missed an the Proclaimers and the Saw Doctors were the support acts. The Proclaimers were brilliant The Saw Doctors were utterly amazing and were worth the price of the ticket alone. After the Saw Doctors finished there was the usual very long wait before the Pogues came out. Shane was fairly sober and had a pint glass of water with him ( I could tell that it was water as he only sipped it and it lasted all night). He struggled through most of the songs and it was only because I knew all the words that I could make out a few of the things he said. The band did their best to keep everything together but all in all it was a terrible show. At least I wasn't expecting too much, but it is a pity to see someone as brilliant as he is, obviously dying from drink. No Pogues fan goes to a concert nowadays unaware of the fact that there is a good chance that he will either not show or will be unable to perform, but you still go in the hope that you will see a spark of his brilliance.
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#22
08-12-2002, 11:21 AM
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And here I thought the gig of theirs I saw in Chicago a year and a half ago was the wackiest live show of any sort I'd ever seen, including a Dead show at Alpine valley at which I was probably the only person there who was NOT tripping...
Shane was holding himself up on the mike stand, because he was plainly too drunk to remain vertical otherwise. Midway through one song, he stopped, puked (which didn't faze him in the least), and with a brief "Well, then" and a wipe of his face on his sleeve, kept singing. A real pro, I tell you. Yes, it was sad to see a brilliant songwwriter destroying his internal organs that way, but now I feel privileged in comparison. At least it only cost $1.50 to get home on the El...
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#23
08-12-2002, 01:48 PM
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Here's a picture of MacGowan at a 10 AM press conference. Note the stains on his fingers that are either 1) nicotine from the cig burning too far down or 2) blood.
That pic is at least 2 years old, I'm surprised he's lasted this long.
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#24
08-12-2002, 02:26 PM
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Quote:
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#25
08-12-2002, 03:24 PM
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"I wish I could escape the old main drag...................."
______________ Damn! I have forgotten to not become drunken again!
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#26
08-12-2002, 05:58 PM
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Aww, you all leave Shane alone, y'hear.
He has said in interviews that he writes best when he's sozzled. And he once said: "I'm getting kinda tired of reading about my impending demise" He's alright, he doesn't have a drink problem, he's just very, very good at it - it's no problem. Just remember all the great songs he's written. And he's still writing them - his last couple of albums have been just as good as the previous stuff. Oh and I can confirm that Dirty Old Town is indeed about Salford (Manchester).
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#27
08-13-2002, 12:15 AM
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Forgive a humble Aussie who hasn't heard much music of The Pogues - however, after reading this thread, I can't help but feel as though I'm reading an alcohol parallel story to the Layne Staley story - except that Shane hasn't locked himself in a condominium for the last 6 years.
At the risk of seeming like a buzzard, just what sort of shit has this guy got up to over the years in regards to his personal abuse. Surely his story can't be any more frightening than Layne's?
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#28
08-13-2002, 12:54 AM
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How old is MacGowan? From the looks of that pic, he couldn't be older than 40...
__________________
"Grant me wings that I might fly"--VNV Nation
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#29
08-13-2002, 01:41 AM
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Bummer, CF.
I've been a big Pogues fan since discovering them on Napster about a year and a half ago. I had read that the Pogues got back together for a couple of gigs with Shane sometime around last Christmas. The reviewer said that Shane had actually seemed to weather the years better than his old bandmates. I was pleasantly surprised. Had Shane given up the hooch? Could the Pogues possibly be getting back together and making more terrific music? Guess not.  Oh, well. I'm going to go listen to If I Should Fall From Grace With God (one of my favorite discs of all time) and wonder why he keeps doing this to himself.If Shane does up and die on us, I hope somebody will post a thread about it. I have a feeling that he isn't newsworthy enough in the U.S. to get even a two-line obit in the papers, much less a TV story.
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#31
08-13-2002, 02:41 AM
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Quote:
neutron star, trust me, when Shane dies, there's gonna be tons of threads about him.
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#33
08-13-2002, 03:03 AM
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Yeah, you're probably right, CF. An enlightened place like this can appreciate his music. Unfortunately, the vast majority of Americans that I've talked to have never even heard of the Pogues, let alone their former drunken lead singer.
Now if Britney Spears should happen to overdose or something, that would unleash torrents of front-page sympathy that probably wouldn't let up for months. Ugh, where are our priorities? Okay, I'm ready to move to Europe now. 
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#34
08-13-2002, 03:15 AM
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Oh, and as long as I'm responding to a thread that has CF's attention :
I'm going to go see Rush in concert this Friday, my first Rush concert ever! WHOO HOOO! Jealous?
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#36
08-13-2002, 05:02 AM
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Ah, the page I was looking at stopped at Mexico City on September 5th. I didn't know there was a European leg to the their tour.
Your last line gave me a chuckle. No matter how hard I try, I simply can't picture a drunken Geddy Lee in my head.
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#37
08-13-2002, 05:06 AM
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Quote:
Shane spent several years living on a diet of Gin, heroin and store brand Tiramasu.
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#38
08-13-2002, 05:25 AM
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Quote:
That said, if Ms. Spears died unexpectedly, I would feel a twinge of sympathy for her family, then move on. When Shane McGowan dies, which I predict will be a very abrupt occurence (maybe backstage just before the show starts), I will be deeply saddened. But when you think about it, we're already doing much of our grieving now.
__________________
Burn in hell John Rosemond always!!! 
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#39
08-13-2002, 05:58 AM
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Yeah, you're probably right, Rilchiam. Actually, they'd probably try to disguise their rabid glee as sympathy and make it even worse.
They'd say they were profoundly saddened, then go on to report every juicy detail that should have been kept private for the sake of her family.
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#40
08-13-2002, 06:13 AM
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Quote:
Let's just say I visit the west coast for personal reasons from time to time. Hi Heloise!
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#43
08-13-2002, 05:42 PM
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Quote:
And anyone knows, it's that store-brand Tiramisu that'll kill you off, right-quick.
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#44
08-13-2002, 05:59 PM
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I'm sure Shane is worried that it might go straight to his hips
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#45
08-14-2002, 06:31 PM
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Quote:
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#46
08-15-2002, 12:39 AM
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As Rasa pointed out, we saw Shane last year (I actually saw him both nights) and he put on a great show. Sure, he's bound to come out drunk off his ass and unable to give it his all on occasion, but anybody who knows a thing about him could reasonably expect that kind of show before they put their money down. I'd be willing to bet just as many people left that show satisfied as not: "Man, I saw Shane MacGowan last night and he was FUCKED UP! It was great!" Some people go as much for the myth as the music, and feel like they got their money's worth either way; they can at least say they got to see him before he died, as you have. Anyway, I think we need people like Shane - people who just say "Fuck it all" and damn the consequences. For me, listening to the Pogues when I was a teenager, Shane's attitude gave me confidence, made me feel freer to be myself regardless of what everybody else told me was right; I never had a desire to become a raving drunk, but I found it inspiring that the option was presented to me as one form of reality, and presented by someone whose excesses didn't seem to affect his ability to create great art (at least as far as songwriting goes). The Replacements were much the same in the early days: poetic street songwriter and an entire band that would come out drunk as Tibetan monks, and that was half the fun: what will they do tonight? Come out and play a bunch of fragments of crappy covers or make out with each other on stage? That's the original spirit behind the music, IMO; if you want slick professionalism, you'll definitely be more appeased at the Rush concert.
And even when he's slurring and puking the words, he's a better singer - a more honest singer - than a roomful of Whitney and Mariahs. And come on, you can't really separate the singer from the songs; as has been pointed out, how many songs has he written that didn't involve alcohol in some way? I say carry on, Shane. I'll always be a fan. Oh, P.S: Onlookers have been saying Shane will die any day now for fifteen years. I wouldn't place any bets just yet.
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#47
08-15-2002, 12:59 PM
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He is going to outlive everyone just for spite. All he has to do is stay the hell of charter flights and helicopters!
General aviation is the ruin of rock n' roll. ______________ She said she loved me like a brother. Shes from Arkansas, hence the Joy!
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#48
08-16-2002, 05:35 PM
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God, I loved The Pogues. I saw them twice at The Coachhouse in San Juan Capistrano. Very small place. Had a table right up next to the stage. Joe Strummer played with them.
Saw them once at the John Anson Ford Theatre. I saw them at the Wiltern, but Shane was missing from this show. Joe Strummer filled in for him. Quote:
I'm surprised Shane still lives. He should be dead. Oh, well. When it happens at least I'll have my CDs, LPs and EPs. gatopescado: Watch what you say about helicopters! 
__________________
'Never say "no" to adventure. Always say "yes". Otherwise you'll lead a very dull life.' -- Commander Caractacus Pott, R.N. (Retired) 'Do not act incautiously when confronting a little bald wrinkly smiling man.' -- Lu-Tze
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