Is it legal to wait in junction to turn left?

Factual Questions
1

Rather than hijack this slightly related thread , I’ll start a new one.

This is about US traffic laws, and specifically Georgia if it varies by state.

At a junction with traffic lights and a left turn lane but no filter (or the filter has gone off so there is two way traffic going straight on), can you enter the junction while you wait for a gap or for the lights to change?

I do so, otherwise, when there is no filter, you could be stuck at those lights for a long, long time. However, I’ve noticed that a lot of other drivers do not. They stay at the white line until they get a clear chance. That is particularly irritating if you are stuck in traffic behind these people.

I have read the GA drivers manual and found no reference to the situation. I assumed that other drivers were just being timid, but in the back of my mind is always the question as to whether I am breaking the law.

A few days ago, I thought I might find out in an expensive way. The car behind me was a cop car. I pulled into the junction, thinking “well, if it’s illegal I’ll soon know”. The cop stayed at the white line. When the lights changed, I could turn the left and the cop… sprinted forward, going through on red. He didn’t stop me.

So, what’s the law?

2

In NYS you are suppose to enter the intersection for a left turn and wait till it’s clear just as you do. Only one car is allowed to do this legaly but many times 2 or 3 cars can get at least a front wheel into the intersection and turn once the light stops the oncomming traffic.

Some people think (around here at least) what they are suppose to do is stop at the line, wait till the light turns red, then green then gun it and cut all the people going straight - I hate them!

3

In California, you are supposed to enter the intersection for a left turn and wait till it’s clear, keeping your wheels pointed stright ahead (so that if you are rear-ended you won’t be pushed into oncoming traffic). I think as many cars can do this as there is space for in the intersection which means, for most intersections, two cars.

In Georgia, almost everyone who plans to make a left turn at an intersection stops at the line and waits until there is a break in oncomong traffic so they can turn. However, as far as I know, it is not illegal to enter the intersection.

Of course, in Georgia, this is complicated by other idiosyncracies of Georgia drivers such as the fact that a yellow light at an intersection is interpreted as “time to step on it,” a red light is interpreted as a suggestion to stop if you happen to feel like it, and making left turns is part of a game, the object of which is to ensure that you are the last person to make a left turn. (The way this is played is as follows. The green left turn arrow comes on. The first car in line waits about as long as he can without someone behind him shooting him, then turns. The next car does the same thing. This way an average of only about two cars make left turns during one cycle at any traffic light-controlled intersection which means that one out of every two cars can be a winner!)

4

The standard rules of the road indicate that you may enter the intersection on a green light, wait for other traffic has the right of way as against you, and then proceed when safe – subject to the provision that you may only enter an intersection you have an available, open space to leave (to prevent gridlocks). In the absence of a specific state’s rule that you may not wait within an intersection for the opportunity to make your left turn, you’re legal in doing so. Obviously, you’re looking at 61 jurisdictions’s rules in Anglo-America, so it’s wise to find out what that state’s rules are if you expect to be spending any extended time there.

5

I was told by my driving instructor that you are supposed to only cross the line if you can get the entire car over it… and if you’re behind the light when it turns yellow you cannot cross it.

This is in Ontario…

6

I lived in Orlando, Florida about ten years ago. I noticed that, contrary to my prior driving experience, people tended to sit behind the white line rather than enter the intersection as they waited for a chance to turn left.

Some intersections have no protected green arrow for the left turn. The advantage of entering the intersection, of course, is that when there is continuous opposing traffic, at least one car will make the left turn when the light turns red.

What particularly galled me were the drivers who waited behind the white line with continuous opposing traffic, watched the light turn red, AND CONTINUED TO SIT THERE!! I sat behind one driver in rush hour traffic through three light cycles. I’m convinced she was waiting for rush hour to end. On the fourth green, I proceeded to lean on the horn for a ninety-second blast. She finally went at the end of the light.

(Yes, I know that wasn’t particularly kind. However, with traffic the way it was, I was pretty much stuck behind this woman until she moved.)

7

I generally practice the enter intersection and wait to turn left procedure. I’ve had occasions where some joker heading in the opposite direction is also doing the same thing, but later than I.

Such a driver may then try to turn in front of me where there is insufficient room or proceed as far out into the intersection as me, locking up traffic in both directions. So far nothing bad has happened, but it’s always an issue I’m concerned about.

8

Those two seconds longer you have to wait for the car to dart through is nothing compared to how long all the people behind him have to wait… I love driving around here for this very reason. Sometimes when there are more people turning left than just one it doesn’t work out well, but I can’t tell you how many times this move kept traffic flowing smoothly.

Anyway, hijack over there

9

In Virginia, you may not enter an intersection if the light is yellow, if you are able to stop. (Oh yeah, like that’s how it happens. :rolleyes: )

You are also not supposed to enter the intersection if there is not already room for you to go through it, either turning or going straight, even if the light is green. If there is already a car waiting to turn left, it is not strictly legal for you to do so as well.

Tris

10

Someone on another thread told about an elderly lady that took off fast when a light changed and hit a car that was in the intersection ready to turn. She was given a ticket. If I remember correctly back when I took my last driver’s exam, the car in the intersection has the right of way.

:mad: [sup]I hate those knuckleheads that sit behind the line and think they are obeying the law.[/sup]

11

Not particularly kind robby, that was downright rude. That person should have been manually pulled out her car and beaten sensless.

12

In BC, you’re supposed to move into the intersection to turn left. And the only limit on cars in the intersection is the number of vehicles that can fit ahead of the stopping line.

Which often means that a light turns red, and three cars are still going through it.

13

If there’s a “flashing red” waiting to become a green arrow, I just stay at the line. Of course, if there’s an opening, then I go. Even if there’s NOT a turn-on-arrow, I typically stay at the line if I’m there first; I don’t see any sense in advancing when there’s a wall of cars coming the other way. When I know my chance is coming, or if I know the light’s about to chance without having gotten my chance, then I creep forward to make the turn before/on the yellow. What really worries me are the butt-holes that accellerate to make it through the yellow in the oncoming lanes (I try to be curteous to the unprotected-left-turners when I’m that oncoming driver.

What really, really frustrates me are the bozos that don’t turn left on a red when they have the chance (onto a one-way road, like the I-696 service drive). You’re stuck behind them, then the light changes, then you have to wait for the oncoming traffic to clear, and then with a little luck the bozo is the only one to make it through.

14

I really hate when you decide to run a yellow light and the guy in front of you chickens out. :slight_smile:

15

On a related subject, I get REALLY pissed off when someone won’t turn right on a red light after traffic has cleared. :mad:

This isn’t being cautious, it’s being afaid of driving. Get a lot of this in NC. :frowning:

16

Tris wrote:

“Go through it” being the important part. When I took driver’s Ed in high school here in Virginia, 20-something years ago, one of the police officers who came to answer questions addressed this issue. He said that if you cross the stop line, you need to be able to go all the way through the intersection. Stopping in the middle of the intersection is not allowed, even to turn left.

On the other hand, just a few years ago this question was brought up in Dr. Gridlock’s column in the Washington Post. I believe the answers the good doctor got from police in D.C., Maryland and Virginia all said, basically, “if you don’t enter the intersection and wait, you’re gonna hold up traffic.”

On the third hand, in Northern Virginia, there are plenty of people who seem to think that yellow means “go faster,” or who go ahead and run fresh red lights, so that I’ve seen plenty of folks trapped, waiting to turn left, even after the lights for the cross-traffic have turned green. There’s only a three-second delay between red one way, and green the other.

I stop behind the line, and wait for a big enough hole, or for the next green arrow. Of course, I also plan my routes to avoid as many left turns as possible (and will choose intersections with left-turn lanes and lights over those without, when possible).

On recent business trips to LA, I noticed a serious lack of left-turn arrows. I don’t think I would survive well if I had to live under such circumstances for more than a week. As it was, I let my coworkers drive - they didn’t seem bothered by it.

On a slightly different note, is it legal go turn left from the unmarked lane just to the right of a left-turn-only lane? There are very few (one or two that I know of) intersections around here with “go straight only” arrows in the central lanes, most don’t have them. Does not having a go straight arrow mean that left (or right, depending on the intersection) is acceptable?

Oh, and Jake, turning right on red is a right, not a responsibility. :slight_smile: I hate it when people honk at me to turn right on red when I’ve got a good idea that due to traffic or trees or whatever, they can’t see the oncoming hazard that I can. They’re just wondering why they’ve seen no cars zip past for five seconds, assume that I’m asleep or otherwise not paying attention, and are impatient to get where they’re going. Meanwhile, I don’t want to die, and didn’t know that the 18-wheeler was going to slow down so much (and I’ve go no idea if he’s gonna speed up again, so you’re just going to have to wait like I am).

17

Odd…it’s completely opposite in Chicago. The game is to see how many left turners can make it through on a yellow/red light. Everyone needs to be on a hair trigger and ready to dash through traffic at the slightest opportunity (traditionally two car lengths between cars moving at 30 mph seems sufficient to squeeze through :wink: ). What really gets bonus points around here are the number of cars that make it through on a red light. Usually two or three cars can make the yellow/red change but it seems to be an unwritten rule that the next three cars may make the turn through a complete red. Where this gets confusing and snarls traffic are the people turning on a left turn signal that then turns red. It seems general practice that the entire left turn lane is allowed to empty regardless of the left turn light thus completely stopping oncoming traffic till it clears.

The only thing that stops any of this are some intersections that are labelled “Left on Arrow Only” in which case left turners must wait for their own light to go and seems to be generally obeyed.

18

Once you are legally in the intersection, you have the right of way and other drivers must yield to you.

No. The motor vehicle laws require that you make a turn from the lane nearest the turn.

I live in Charleston, SC, and during rush hours in the evening, when you are going against the rush hour traffic, the left turn signal on Calhoun was shut off to allow for the heavy traffic. (That was changed recently because too many drivers wanted to turn left also - so there is a very short arrow now.) I was behind a lady driver one day who sat there at the white line for three changes. I didn’t lean on my horn, mind you. I just got out of the car and explained to her that if she doesn’t drive to the middle of the intersection, neither of us will move. She just looked at me exasperatingly, and then drove straight ahead at the next green.

19

Wasn’t it Gallagher who said, as part of a comedy routine, “The light turns yellow; three cars turn left”? His premise being that when you’re going straight through an intersection, and there is somebody waiting to turn left in the oncoming lane, and the light turns yellow, you should stop, thus allowing up to three cars in the oncomng lane to turn left during the yellow.

This always seemed sensible to me, and no doubt unlegislated.

20

maralinn wrote:

Given the amount of cursing I remember in that routine, I’m betting it was George Carlin.