I have encountered, more and more often, that drivers doing a left-turn will not pull out into the intersection. They sit back at the “Stop Here” line and wait.
This is really annoying, because from their vantage they can’t see anything, and they usually miss several good opportunities to turn and waste the green light.
Now, since Edmonton has the Worst Drivers In The World this could be just another manifestation of indecisive, ultra-cautious unskilled driving. But I started to wonder - is this something new that is being taught in Driver Training?
Yesterday, the driver in front of me did this. She sat in the wrong position and noticed after awhile that no cars were coming at her and that maybe it was time to actually start driving again. But she couldn’t see so she reluctantly creeped out to start turning, saw a car coming (still a comfortable distance away), stopped, started, stopped, and then scooted across in front the approaching car that had now reached the intersection.
Depends on whether there’s a turn arrow, and if so if so if it is one of those “pyramidal” lights where you can attempt to turn left if the light for going straight is green. Also depends on state law as to whether you have to wait behind the white line (because you are in a yield situation) or not, and also depends on whether there is a sensor embedded in the pavement (so as to trigger the arrow). If you pull out into the middle, you risk getting stranded there and/or blocking traffic, esp. if a line of people going straight in the oncoming lane all run the red light (as they are wont to do around here).
If I am trying to make a left turn through an intersection, on say a green for straight that also allows a left if I yeild to oncoming traffic I can certainly easily see what I need to, the people coming the other way on the green. And around here I aint getting out into the intersection to get it all blocked up or get hit when it turns out I can’t go before people start moving because the light changed and the green folks are getting going while the red folks are also still going.
It is because of the ever present cash cows. You know the red light cameras. If you pull in to the middle of the intersection and the light changes and you clear the intersection, you have just earned yourself a $200 or higher ticket. The local governments need cash and they have no problem stealing it from us.
Pulling straight forward into the intersection while awaiting a left opportunity is not failing to yield. The sensor location isn’t a reason not to, either–at worst, the light will eventually turn red for your and the opposing direction (green for the cross street), and one car which has pulled straight forward into the intersection will be able to make its turn. Presumably even where you are, you won’t have so many opposing drivers running the red that the light cycles around without allowing any cross traffic, right? So the one car which has pulled forward has to get a chance to go ahead of the cross traffic.
I have seen a couple intersections where under typical traffic volumes and patterns, pulling forward to wait in the intersection was literally the only way to ever make a left there.
Didn’t explain myself clearly… there are cars across the intersection who are left-turning the opposite direction and they block your view. The geometry of the intersection can be done in different ways: the opposing left-turners can be in front and left, directly in front, or to the right (best, because now you can see the through traffic without any problem). As Spark240 said, pulling forward is your only chance to ever make a left turn in heavy traffic.
What happens 95% of the time, is that the left turners nose out as far as they can and are ready to make their turn when they can. When the light turns red they clear the intersection. This way at least 2-3 cars can make a light even at the busiest times. Not the best situation, but reasonable and it seems to me to be SOP.
Maybe its just the roads around here. But those other folks on the other side trying to make a left arent blocking my view. If anything, me pulling into the intersection makes it HARDER for me to see further down the road into the oncoming traffic. Being out there might let me get through a smidge faster, but it aint IME letting me see better down the road.
Also, the fact the law allows you to turn left on green as long as you yeild (and maybe/maybe not be sitting in the intersection when it turns red) do not imply you are required to go and or get your butt out in the intersection to wait for your chance.
Your mileage and state laws and blah blah blah may blah blah blah
I wouldn’t be surprised if drivers having this theory was the reason why they’re not pulling out, but it’s not actually true. The red light camera might flash, but if you were in the intersection before the light turned you shouldn’t get a ticket (some thankless person reviews all of them before tickets are sent out). You will also get a ticket if you’re the next car back and you enter the intersection after the light turns which, though normal procedure in some places, is illegal everywhere as far as I know.
Given that in certain places and conditions this may be the only way to make the turn–the only way, or the only reasonably timely way, to get out of the way of people behind you–I think it could be construed as blocking traffic to fail to do so.
You don’t get it. We’re talking about pulling out into an intersection and waiting to make a left turn. Doing so you are blocking no one.
I loathe when people refuse to move out into the intersection when turning left. Often it’s the only way to make a left turn at an intersection with no left turn arrows.
If that ever happens, he’s doing something wrong. But people who are doing this properly aren’t “camping out”–they’re in motion at the very first opportunity. Unless you’re jamming your gas off the line–a dangerous thing to do under most any circumstances–they’re not slowing you down.
If you are attempting to make a left turn at an intersection at a greenlight and you cannot because there is traffic going straight in the opposite direction, they have the right of way. The proper procedure in Minnesota is to pull forward, into the intersection just short of the lane into which you are turning, legally establishing yourself in the intersection so that when the light changes to red and the other traffic stops, you can make your turn. You may not like it, but it is proper procedure. They shouldn’t be blocking you because when both lights should be red at the same time giving the legally established car time to turn before the perpendicular lane gets a green light.
Well fuck you! The left-turner has probably been waiting several minutes for the light to change so he can turn across the oncoming lane. You can wait that fraction of a second while he actually makes his turn. You don’t have to zoom on a racing start the very moment your light turns green.
What makes me mad is when I want to turn left and I am behind another person turning left who will not pull out (or will not pull out far enough) so that I am trapped behind the light, and maybe have to wait through another full cycle before I can go. If they won’t pull forward, I am on the horn.
The real trouble makers here are the folks from the opposite direction that are STILL going through the intersection when the light turns red, keeping “mr in the intersection waiting to turn left” from going. And of course its the perfect storm when the guy that wants to turn cant wait to turn, the people going through the intersection can’t wait and run the red light, and the guy that can’t wait and want to peel rubber when the light turns green.
So all you can fracking wait people are the ones screwing each other over.
You are if there is so much oncoming traffic that you never get to turn before the light changes and cars start coming across. That’s why it’s illegal in Manhattan, for example - it leads to gridlock. There are signs at interesections that say “DON’T BLOCK THE BOX”.
But in that situation, if you don’t pull into the intersection, you NEVER get a chance to complete your turn and you hold up everyone behind you for a full cycle.
You go straight and find another route then (assuming its illegal to “hang” out in the intersection). Or the people behind you have to suck it up. If its illegal, the fact it might inconvience you or somebody else doesnt mean you have to do it.