Here in Maine, when you have a green light (with no red arrow), it is the accepted convention—which I remember being taught back in drivers’ ed over ten years ago—to pull out partway into the intersection when the light turns green, and wait there for oncoming traffic to clear. Cross traffic, if the light changes, has to wait for you to complete your turn, since you are already in the intersection.
I spent a year in Connecticut, and it seemed the convention was the opposite. Very few people (perhaps it was just me) would enter the intersection on green if they couldn’t turn immediately. I found it very annoying, at times, because you could be waiting a long time, through several cycles, if the light did not have a protected left turn arrow.
Then I got to wondering. Perhaps it was illegal down there. Are there any states/countries out there where you cannot enter the intersection for a left turn until oncoming traffic is clear?
Pulling into the intersection is the norm here in Houston, Texas.
If you don’t there will be an angry chorus of horns letting you know that you should.
It’s the same way in Ontario as you describe for Maine; pull into the intersection, wait for an opening to turn safely through oncoming traffic, if not, cross-traffic has to wait until you’re out of the intersection before they have the right of way.
The MTO website is also fairly specific about not turning your wheels left until the way is clear; otherwise, if you get rear-ended, you’re going to be headed into the oncoming traffic.
What part of Connecticut are you driving in? I have only rarely seen people waitng patiently to pul into the intersection to take a left turn. In fact, it seems much more common for three or four cars to stay in the intersection until the oncoming traffic light has turned red, and then complete their turns.
It’s much more common in cities for obvious reasons but in general it’s a good idea in high traffic areas to not pull into an intersection if you don’t have room to exit it.
The relevant section of the British Highway Code is here, and shows what looks like the convention you observe in Maine. Most junctions where I live where you’re likely to be waiting a while to turn right have a marked area in the middle of the road specifically for cars waiting to turn.
I’m not a big fan of doing it just because you’re impatient – for instance, if there will be a protected left turn arrow on the next cycle. Waiting for oncoming traffic to stop for the red light so that you can run it – eating into the cross-traffic’s green light time in the process – always rubbed me the wrong way.
That said, there are situations without turn arrows where you really have no choice but to do this. If there’s enough traffic, it’s the only way to get through, and sometimes only one car per cycle can turn left. Whenever I see a light like that, I always wonder why the hell they haven’t added a turn arrow.
I would add the caveat that where and when this is okay, only ONE vehicle should do it. A chorus line of drivers pulled out into the intersection, all waiting for the red light to complete their turns, is exactly the sort of thing that leads to total gridlock.
When I went to traffic school, the policeman teaching the class told us that pulling into the intersection on a green and turning when the oncoming traffic stopped was illegal. He also told us that if no one did it, no one would get anywhere in Omaha, and strongly implied that this law was never enforced unless there was a crash. FWIW, he said the same thing about flashing one’s brights–it’s illegal, but he’d done it himself several times.
that was what I was thinking as I read the thread top to bottom. You are right. One, maybe two, can clear out after the oncoming traffic stops without really having an effect on the cross traffic’s ability to go on green.
I dislike left turn arrows that don’t allow you to go ahead and make your left turn (america) when there is no oncoming traffic.
There are some dedicated left turn lanes in Florida that have a green arrow, but you still have to yield to oncoming traffic…fatalities waiting to happen, and they don’t even acknowledge having received a report of accidents waiting to happen.
Where I live every traffic light is four-way (or three-way if T-intersection), i.e. all conflict is avoided. This is fortuitous given the level of driving competence.
There’s only one traffic light within 18 miles of my home. It’s on a slow four-way cycle even though traffic is light and one of the four legs is a little-used track.
In Texas, it’s ok to pull into the intersection as long as you can clear the intersection when the light changes. It’s worth noting that you are not technically even supposed to enter the intersection going straight on a green light if you can’t clear the intersection, and this situation does pop up during rush hour.
As for the dedicated left turn lights, it’s not usually a problem in big cities, as there’s almost always some level of traffic except perhaps late at night. But out in the Fort Bend suburbs, the traffic engineers have started testing flashing yellows on the left turn lanes. If there’s no oncoming traffic, you are clear to turn. Naturally, these don’t operate during rush hour when there’s always oncoming traffic.
Traffic light cameras are becoming more prevalent. Getting your picture snapped on a red light waiting to complete your turn has really discouraged intersection packing here.
Just a technical nit: it’s not running a red light if you’re in the intersection before the light turns red. That may not be true in some states.
The most you could get ticketed for is “running a yellow light”. Cops usually reserve that for cars that speed up when the light turns yellow. (If you had to speed up, you could have stopped, and therefore, should have stopped. In practice, they generally only stop cars for this if they look like they might be able to pull a warrant for one of the occupants. That is, old nasty looking cars and DWB get pulled over, but minivans driven by nerds don’t.)
However, I know of a few intersections where it’s important for everyone who can to crowd into the intersection or else traffic backs up in the left turn lane, and the egress lanes are never congested. In most cases, there’s even a left-turn green arrow light, which is when you normally wouldn’t need to enter the intersection, but the cycle is too short. It’s an exception to the general rules, though, and IMHO due to bad traffic engineering / light timing.
