Oh yeah, Americans are MUCH too mature for racism...

[ladyfoxfyre]

For the past year, no matter what show it is on Comedy Central, I have noticed a disturbing trend among it's more popular stars.

Each and every comedian manages to spend nearly 50% of their time making blatant and obnoxious racial slurs towards Arabs and Muslims. And the audience members act like they've never heard anything more hilarious!
Now, I know some people may find it funny, and humorous and amusing, but I just find it sick. If anybody was saying the exact same things about blacks or hispanics or women, everybody would be throwing a bitch fit.

"Man, these people we're fighting live in caves! You know they have to smell bad! They're trying to shoot us from camels! Ah ha ha!!"

I mean jesus christ, if we want to proclaim ourselves to appreciate that all men are created equal, and that we have moved on past the idea that whites are better than blacks or that women shouldn't belong in the business world, then this is a little immature for us.
I know that comedians aren't the best way to judge what social norms are, but I still think that it is a bit much.
This isn't much of a rant than a mild irritation, but I would like to know if anyone else has noticed the same trend and been equally embarassed/offended by it.
-foxy

[whiterabbit]

I can't say I've noticed, but I'm also not surprised.

(Also, "Americans" does NOT HAVE AN APOSTROPHE! Thank you.)

[andros]

Who on earth ever said that Americans weren't racist?

Am this suddenly Bizarro World?

[ladyfoxfyre]

Bah...My mind crossed between "America's much too mature for racism" and "Americans are much too mature for racism".
Could a mod please fix for me?

[raisinbread]

Would you be as offended if the current national enemy were those bumbling, blue eyed National Socialists?

[Tars Tarkas]

"No matter what show", knowing comedy central, it is all the same show!!!

[Biggirl]

Have you seen the treatment the French are getting right here in the Pit?


It can be funny. It can also be pretty ugly. Everybody draws that line at a different place.

[whiterabbit]

(ladyfoxfyre, I probably shouldn't have said that. It's one of those things that bugs the hell out of me, though. If it was a TYPO, no problem. What scares me is the number of people who punctuate that way.)

I suppose that when you're not in the majority group, it's fine to pick on said majority, while it's not all right the other way, since the majority group already has more power. Or something like that. Doesn't make the bigotry any nicer to hear, though.

[World Eater]

Christ here we go again. Why don't we just jump to this thread.

[Troy McClure SF]

I've noticed the same thing; glad I'm not the only one. Even Leterman's doing it, fer God's sake!

[ladyfoxfyre]

They seem quite different to me, that's why I didn't post there. But sorry if it seems redundant to you, luckily I won't make you stay.

[ladyfoxfyre]

Ah, that was directed at World Eater, by the way. Didn't want you to think I was talking to you, Troy McClure.

[Troy McClure SF]

Originally posted by ladyfoxfyre
Ah, that was directed at World Eater, by the way. Didn't want you to think I was talking to you, Troy McClure.

Yeah, I'll bet.













And FTR, I agree with what you said, too.

[SenorBeef]

Most stand up comics seem to have at least 50% racially related material.

I've seen lots of black comics whose whole act is to say "white guys are lame because they do _____ while black guys are cool cause they _____"

Even Greg Proops (?) was on earlier tonight, and half HIS act was "white guys are lame because ____".

[hansel]

One of Dennis Miller's best lines was "I admit it: I'm white. On my stereo, the treble is turned up higher than the base."

[Neurotik]

How does one make one's base higher than the treble on a stereo?

[jjimm]

Originally posted by Neurotik
How does one make one's base higher than the treble on a stereo?

Turn it upside-down.

And raisinbread, we're back to the whole thing about differentiating between fascistic motherfuckers, and the race and religion from which they are derived. BIG fucking difference.

[Dryga_Yes]

Originally posted by raisinbread
Would you be as offended if the current national enemy were those bumbling, blue eyed National Socialists?

Yeah, I hate all those hypocrites who make fun of nazis all the time, but get all offended when I say something similar about arabs.




FUCK YOU, RAISINBREAD.

[Feynn]

""Yeah, I hate all those hypocrites who make fun of nazis all the time, but get all offended when I say something similar about arabs."

The Nazis are a political party and are worthy of contempt for their ideolgy that they are superior to anyone who isn't a blonde haired, blue eyed Aryan.

Members of the Taliban, Al Queda, and other known terrorist organizations are also worthy of contempt for their actions against innocent individuals.

Applying the same commentary to include ALL Arabs, ALL Muslims, and ALL Germans is racist.

I work with one German who is a very sweet and caring lady, and work with several Arab Muslims who are among the finest people I have ever had the fortune to know.

Pick on the fascist motherfuckers all you want. They deserve ridicule and contempt.

[Muad'Dib]

Originally posted by Feynn


Members of the Taliban, Al Queda, and other known terrorist organizations are also worthy of contempt for their actions against innocent individuals.

Applying the same commentary to include ALL Arabs, ALL Muslims, and ALL Germans is racist.

I think that ladyfoxfyre jumped to the conclusion that the jokes were about all Arabs, Muslims, etc.

[Feynn]

Maud'Dib - I was actually addressing a point that Dryga_Yes made as I am one of those people who is offended when people ridicule or condemn Muslims and Arabs (there's a difference) based on the actions of smaller groups.

The rule in comedy seems to be that you can poke fun at members of your own identifiable group whether that's based on religion, colour, or political affiliation.

Like those folks who are part Irish and part Scottish... they love to drink but sure hate to pay for it.

[gobear]

Feynn, the fact that you know one nice German lady now should not blind you to the historical fact that Germans in the 1930s were largely pro-Hitler--he won the plebiscite in 1933 with more than 90 percent of the vote. Sure, there were some Germans who resisted Hitler and the Nazis, but the great majority of Germans wer very much in support of Hitler's policies, particularly toward the Jews.

The fact that Germans are nice now does not mean they were nice then.

Bigots don't have fangs and horns--they don't eat babies. They are nice people; good, loving people often, they are the finest people you have ever known...until the subject of conversation comes round to Jews, Arabs, whites, blacks, Catholics, Protestants or whichever group they hate.

It is possible for Arabs to be good, decent, religous people who also hate and despise Jews and want Israel to be wiped from the face of the Earth. Fifty years, the vast majority of white Americans were good, decent, religious people who believed that blacks were inferiors who must be kept in their place. Bigots are like serial killers--they look like everyone else.

[Odesio]

Originally posted by ladyfoxfyre

"Man, these people we're fighting live in caves! You know they have to smell bad! They're trying to shoot us from camels! Ah ha ha!!"

How is any of this racist? Is the comedian talking about all muslims or all arabs?

Marc

[Dryga_Yes]

In case someone missed it, I was not being serious when I said that hating nazis and hating muslims are morally equivalent. That's actually an insanely ridicolous and stupid thing to believe. I was saying it in order to make fun of raisinbread, who (judging from the post I quoted) seems to do think so. I thought that the rolleyes and the FUCK YOU, RAISINBREAD would make it clear, but apparently it didn't.

[ladyfoxfyre]

Originally posted by MGibson
How is any of this racist? Is the comedian talking about all muslims or all arabs?

Marc

You ask how any of that is racist? Are you serious? Saying that all the citizens of Iraq are going to be fighting from camels and that they live in caves and then mocking the way they speak is definitely racist.
If not racist, then just being an asshole in relation to people from other countries.
-foxy

[Odesio]

Originally posted by ladyfoxfyre
You ask how any of that is racist? Are you serious? Saying that all the citizens of Iraq are going to be fighting from camels and that they live in caves and then mocking the way they speak is definitely racist.
If not racist, then just being an asshole in relation to people from other countries.
-foxy

Who said everybody in Iraq was living in caves? The only comedians I heard talking about caves were referring to Afghanistan. Iraq has cities, tanks, modern anti-aircraft batteries, and all sorts of other goodies. I guess you've got me on the camel thing though.

Marc

[ladyfoxfyre]

Originally posted by MGibson
Who said everybody in Iraq was living in caves? The only comedians I heard talking about caves were referring to Afghanistan. Iraq has cities, tanks, modern anti-aircraft batteries, and all sorts of other goodies. I guess you've got me on the camel thing though.

Marc

Well considering he was referring to the people we were at war with, that being Iraq, I thought it was pretty apparant. Nobody said comedians were the most intelligent of the bunch though.

[Odesio]

Originally posted by ladyfoxfyre
Well considering he was referring to the people we were at war with, that being Iraq, I thought it was pretty apparant. Nobody said comedians were the most intelligent of the bunch though.

That must have been a pretty dated show since we haven't been at war with Iraq for about 10 years now.

[SenorBeef]

Originally posted by Neurotik
How does one make one's base higher than the treble on a stereo?

Er... assumably he meant his equalizer gave a bigger boost to treble frequencies than bass frequencies.

Or did I miss a subtle joke?

[SenorBeef]

Originally posted by gobear
Feynn, the fact that you know one nice German lady now should not blind you to the historical fact that Germans in the 1930s were largely pro-Hitler--he won the plebiscite in 1933 with more than 90 percent of the vote. Sure, there were some Germans who resisted Hitler and the Nazis, but the great majority of Germans wer very much in support of Hitler's policies, particularly toward the Jews.

Easy there now, I understand the point you're trying to make, but you're playing loosely with the facts.

The German populace didn't largely support the Holocaust, which seems to be your implication by "his policy on Jews".

There WAS large hatred for Jews, and advocacy into making them second class citizens and relocating them to the Ostland, but you make it sound like the common German knew and approved of the Holocaust.

There was a great deal of lying and propoganda designed to hide the Holocaust from the average German, because those at the top understood that the average German wouldn't support such a terrible thing. There was a pretense that they were being shipped to the newly conquered land in Russia to form their own communities away from Germans. That was largely supported, and horribly racist, and all that, but it does a disservice to imply that the majority of Germans knew about and supported the Holocaust.

[SenorBeef]

Btw, when they refer to the Taliban "fighting from camels", I assume they're just making a joke about how stupid those people were, with their inadequate equipment, etc. were in picking on the US (and their military).

[ladyfoxfyre]

Jesus MGibson, are you having a really tough time with this? The show aired for the first time two days ago, it wasn't a "dated show", he was referring to people from Iraq and Arabs, it was blatantly obvious. He was joking about how they live in caves and shoot from camels. You are trying to make it seem like this wasn't racist or predjudiced in any way, when that was his intention from the beginning. If you want to get into technicalities, no, we haven't been at war with Iraq for 10 years, but everybody knows that we will be and instead of saying "We once had an altercation with them a decade ago" they say "We're going to kick their ass".
Please let me know if you need ANY more clarification.

[roadrunner70]

[nitpick]It's...spelt...bass[/nitpick]

Carrion.

[jjimm]

Originally posted by superbee
[nitpick]It's...spelt...bass[/nitpick]

...hence the quips.

[Frank]

Originally posted by gobear
Feynn, the fact that you know one nice German lady now should not blind you to the historical fact that Germans in the 1930s were largely pro-Hitler--he won the plebiscite in 1933 with more than 90 percent of the vote. Sure, there were some Germans who resisted Hitler and the Nazis, but the great majority of Germans wer very much in support of Hitler's policies, particularly toward the Jews.

Well, gobear, I would interpret this differently. Upon until after Hitler became Chancellor, the Nazis were never even close to the majority party. They had a plurality after the last 1932 election, but even in the March, 1933 election, they only garnered 44% of the vote. It was not until after the destruction of the Communist and Socialist parties that the enabling act was able to be passed. After that, the Nazi party was effectively the only political party left, and I would certainly not consider any election after that point to be free.

[ladyfoxfyre]

MGibson, sorry for being so snippy in the last reply, I am just tired of many people saying that racism towards Arabs isn't really racism. Sure it is, it's just directed at middle-easterners instead of blacks or hispanics.
It seemed like that was what you were implying, sorry for the aggression though.
-foxy

[Fang]

Originally posted by ladyfoxfyre
I am just tired of many people saying that racism towards Arabs isn't really racism.

Um, who actually said this? To whatever extent those jokes have been made on Comedy Central, I've always seen them made against al-Qaeda and the Taliban themselves, who really do live in caves, have frequently used camels for transportation, and most likely do actually smell. You are pitting something that by and large is not true.

[elf6c]

Applying the same commentary to include ALL Arabs, ALL Muslims, and ALL Germans is racist.

And yet all American's are getting painted by the same brush over the comments of a few "comedians" and that's ok?

As the word used in the title is "American's" not a few random hack "comedians" standing in front of a brick wall.

[jjimm]

I'm declaring a fatwa on all those damned incorrect apostrophes in the OP and elf6c's post.

[elf6c]

Originally posted by jjimm
I'm declaring a fatwa on all those damned incorrect apostrophes in the OP and elf6c's post.

Oh crap, I have to go into hiding again.

BTW: I was only doing it because the OP did-- I even quoted it the first time. However, it retrospect I guess that excuse is never really that effective, so off to my safehouse.

[jjimm]

Originally posted by elf6c
Oh crap, I have to go into hiding again.

BTW: I was only doing it because the OP did-- I even quoted it the first time. However, it retrospect I guess that excuse is never really that effective, so off to my safehouse.

Turns out old Salman spent a few weeks staying with U2 near Dublin, so enjoy yourself, but don't get too close to The Edge...

[ladyfoxfyre]

And I already explained why it happened, so mocking me because of a mistake is really unwarranted and unnecessary.

[ladyfoxfyre]

Originally posted by Fang
Um, who actually said this? To whatever extent those jokes have been made on Comedy Central, I've always seen them made against al-Qaeda and the Taliban themselves, who really do live in caves, have frequently used camels for transportation, and most likely do actually smell. You are pitting something that by and large is not true.

I have heard people make this generalization, as if it isn't racism because they deserve it. In the specific situation that I am describing, it was aimed at Iraqis in specific, not just al-Qaida.
No, what I am pitting is not "by and large not true", it is an observation that I have made countless times. Other people within this thread have said that they have noticed the same situation, so I'm obviously not making this up.
I'm ticked off about it, you aren't, BFD. Saying that what I've noticed "doesn't exist" just because you don't happen to agree with it isn't logical.
-foxy

[Zoff]

Originally posted by ladyfoxfyre
Well considering he was referring to the people we were at war with, that being Iraq, I thought it was pretty apparant.

In the specific situation that I am describing, it was aimed at Iraqis in specific, not just al-Qaida.

Can you please link to a quote or something? You keep saying that they were talking about Iraq, but from the context of your statements it seems like they were talking about al-Qaeda and/or the Taliban.

We're not at war with Iraq either declared or undeclared. We might go to war (declared or undeclared) sooner, later or not at all. But if the comedians were making fun of people "we were at war with" they were not talking about Iraq. We haven't declared war on them or engaged in any ground fighting with them since 1991.

[ladyfoxfyre]

Alright. Since many people don't seem to be understanding this, I will spell it out as best I can, so there are no misconceptions. I can't "link to a quote" because it was on television.

He was making fun of the Iraqis, saying that when we go to war with them they will come at us with camels. He joked about how they lived in caves and smell bad. He then proceeded to talk for a while about Saddam Hussein, and unless he is the president of another country I am unaware of, he probably was directing that comment towards Iraq.
Has anyone seen the USO Comedy Tour on CC? If you have, then you might be familiar with what I speak of. That's not the specific example I'm using, but just one of the many I've seen. I know they're in front of a bunch of Army guys, so it's to be expected.
Now, the purpose of this thread was just to say that I think this is racist. Many of you have said things like "Well he wasn't talking about Iraq if he said all that" and I agree that it sounds odd. This would be in effect partly what I was objecting to. He was taking generalizations about Afghans and applying them to all middle-easterners. See the problem here?
The misspelling of "Americans" in the title was already explained, I was thinking between "America's much too..." and "Americans are..." so that can go away, please. I apologize, I am really not that gramatically inept as to believe it was correct. I will have it fixed.
That's it for now.

[tunabreath]

Comedy and other arts often reflect what the populace is thinking. Many people where I work and many others I know (most in fact) are so bigoted against anyone with brown skin. Arab, Muslim, Indian, anyone even remotely looking "Arabish". They want them all expelled.
It's embarrassing, it's shameful.
Year's (sorry foxy, that apostrophe and all others are for jjim) ago I stopped laughing at most stand-up jerks because their brand of humor is so mean spirited.
I remember not long after 911 I was walking my kids to the beach and when I looked at this man's face coming toward me I saw such anger when he looked back at me, it was shocking. I wondered why. A block later it dawned on me that he was Indian, he wore a turban. I understood then, he'd been targeted with this mindless hatred for the folks from the middle east and further east.
Argue about the comic all you want, this is what (many) Americans have become. Mosques burnt. Racial profiling.
Back in '80 I worked for a company that repaired INS computers and one day there were Iranians down below in front of the federal building protestin the Ayatollah. All the INS saw was Iranians, they wanted names and they wanted to start working on deportation. Gee, I wonder how a pro-American Iranian would fare being sent back to Iran.
I was born in Kenitra, Morocco in a Navy Hospital and that same year (1980) the INS started working on my "status". I'd been a registered voter for 5 years.

yo, jjim! ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' . That's for elf6c and foxy. Being a Morrocan born American, I'll see your fatwa and raise you by 2 curses. See what I mean about racist comedy? Now I've done it too.

[jjimm]

Originally posted by tunabreath
yo, jjim! ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' . That's for elf6c and foxy. Being a Morrocan born American, I'll see your fatwa and raise you by 2 curses. See what I mean about racist comedy? Now I've done it too.

I don't believe my use of "fatwa" was in the least bit racist. I am aware that a fatwa is merely a ruling. In the context, I believe that my use of the term was clearly with humorous reference to the fatwa that was applied to Salman Rushdie, to which I am vehemently opposed. That doesn't mean I am denigrating Shiite Muslims. However, if you took exception to this, then I apologise.