Giving or soliciting charity is not a gift.

[even sven]

Why do people think it's a gift to give or solicit charity?

On a certain wedding-themed message board, there is a thread about how a girl's mom died of cancer and so she wants to set up a wishing well for personal monetary gifts (which doesn't really bug me) and an additional "wishing well" for donations to a cancer charity.

The other "people" on this board suggested that she instead just not give wedding favors, and print up cards saying that all the money she would have spent on wedding favors went to charity.

And I'm the only one that thinks thats tacky.

See, when you so thoughfully provide a (coersive) oppertunity for people to donate to charity, you are giving exactly one person a gift- yourself. You get all the warm fuzzies for being so kind and charitiable, and you get someone else to pay for it! As if that's not enough, you are indirectly insulting your guests by insinuating that they are so uncharitable that they need your help giving money to people. So in the end your guests get a slighly emptier wallet, an suspicion that they were somehow taken, and you get to sit around feeling all good about yourself for being such a good human being.

The same goes when you donate money to a charitable cause in someone's name as a "gift" (note this doesn't count if the person involved is dead and you are donateing what would be an inhertence). That isn't a gift. That is you deciding what cause you want to support. That is you supporting that cause. That is you getting all the warm charitable fuzzies, and you gaining all the personal and social commendations for being such a wonderful person. And then you want to pass that off as a gift? All that can happen by turning a charitable donation into a gift is that you insult the giftee by showing off how much more thoughful you are then them, and then expecting thanks and more commendation for it! What a scam!

Charity is a great thing, and I think we all have a personal moral duty to give to charity in some way. But (except for the cases of the very very extremely rich) giving to charity shouldn't be some sort of social currency. That isn't charity at all. That is trying to make yourself feel good, and expecting others to look up to you for it. It's great to make yourself feel good, and it's great if the by product is someone else's life improving, but don't call that a gift to someone else, or expect someone else to do it for you. Good God, today I think I'll go to the spa and call it a christmas gift to my mother!

Sometimes I think we should take up the traditinal Muslim method of charity. They give charity as a matter of course- it's a religious commandment but it is also consdered just one of the things people do. And they don't really mention it publicly. It's considered kind of rude to talk about who has given how much. It'd be unthinkable to print that on little note cards and distribute them at weddings. Because charity shouldn't be something we should make a big deal out of. It should be as natural and personal as taking a morning shower. If you do it, thats good and normal. If you don't do it, you obviously have your reasons, which you'll share with people if you feel like sharing. But for the love of all that is holy don't rub it in everyone's faces.

[Kat]

The same goes when you donate money to a charitable cause in someone's name as a "gift" (note this doesn't count if the person involved is dead and you are donateing what would be an inhertence). That isn't a gift. That is you deciding what cause you want to support.

Actually, when you donate to a charity as a gift, you're supposed to donate it to their favorite charity. If I got a gift from someone that they'd made a donation in my name to a charity that I don't support or have never heard of, I'd be insulted. However, if I got one from someone that they'd donated it to one that I support, that would be different.

[Shayna]

Originally posted by even sven

Why do people think it's a gift to give or solicit charity?

On a certain wedding-themed message board, there is a thread about how a girl's mom died of cancer and so she wants to set up a wishing well for personal monetary gifts (which doesn't really bug me) and an additional "wishing well" for donations to a cancer charity.

And I'm the only one that thinks thats tacky.

I'm confused. Why on earth would you not object to a "wishing well" for the bride to personally benefit financially, but be this vehemently against one where the proceeds are unshelfishly directed to a charity instead of being kept for personal gain? Something is seriously wrong with that basackwards bullshit. If the recipient, herself, considers a donation to charity an acceptable and appreciated gift, who are you to tell her it's not one?

Frankly, I think the "solicitation" of any money in any fashion for any purpose at a wedding reception is tacky. However, depending on the situation, I see no problem with making a donation to a charity in someone's name in lieu of buying them a gift. We did that very thing not too long ago when friends who were getting married said they were requesting no gifts. We didn't feel right not doing anything, but we didn't want to insult them or make them feel obligated by going against their express wishes and buying them something anyway. So we made a charitable donation in their names.

If that makes us bad (or selfish) people, oh well, so be it. At least some dying kids will get a wish fulfilled because of our selfishness. I think I can still sleep well at night, thanks.

[Miller]

I think I kinda see where even sven is coming from here. Charity ought, properly, to be aid given with no expectation of recompense. Giving money to the needy so that everyone thinks you're a wonderful, caring person isn't charity, it's advertising. Real charity ought to be totally anonymous, lest the gratitude of the recipient or the admiration of society taint the motive of the giving. It reminds me of one of the Christmas episodes of M*A*S*H, wherein Winchester allows everyone to think of him as an uncharitable bore while he secretly gives boxes of chocolates to the local orphanage.

Of course, that's all meaningless bullshit, because all that really matters is that the people who need help get help. Motives don't go for shit: it's results that count.

[even sven]

A "wishing well" is essentially a charitiable contribution directly to the couple. I guess I appreciate the honestly of it. If the couple feels like donating the money, I'm all for that. Heck, I find that pretty damn admirable. But a charity wishing well is an indirect contribution which is set up with the purpose of giving the couple some sort of moral hand job in the process. I'm not for making my or in any way implying that my guests ought to stroke my good feelin' charity stick.

But can't you see where I'm coming from a bit, Shayna? Who feels all good that that kid is being fed? You. That couple might feel passingly good about it, but not in the way that the would if they were using their new toaster, or looking at their new candlesticks. But you do- you feel that right now. They don't feel charitable or good at all. So in the end that was a gift you yourself. Thats cool, but it's not a gift and it's just barely charity.

[Shayna]

Originally posted by Miller

Charity ought, properly, to be aid given with no expectation of recompense.

Well of course. But in what way is the bride in this scenario expecting recompense? Or for that matter, the actual donors of the cash for the chosen cause?

Giving money to the needy so that everyone thinks you're a wonderful, caring person isn't charity, it's advertising

And how, in the above example, is the bride giving money to a cancer foundation in memory of her deceased mother, an effort to make her look like a wonderful and caring person? Her mother is dead. She can't be at the wedding. I'm sure this makes the bride a little sad, don't you? Perhaps this is her way of honoring her mother in her absence, by directing cash gifts to a charity that would benefit others with the same disease. Or are you and even sven mind readers and know this particular bride's motives are egotistical?

Like I said above, I think it's just plain tacky to solicit money in ANY FORM for ANY PURPOSE at a wedding reception, so in that regard I agree with the OP that this whole "wishing well" thing is, in fact, tacky. But to judge the bride so harshly for putting up a charitable donation box (so to speak), but say it doesn't bug her that the greedy bride wants to put a cash jar out for herself -- well, I find that -- odd.

[Shayna]

Originally posted by even sven
A "wishing well" is essentially a charitiable contribution directly to the couple. I guess I appreciate the honestly of it. If the couple feels like donating the money, I'm all for that. Heck, I find that pretty damn admirable. But a charity wishing well is an indirect contribution which is set up with the purpose of giving the couple some sort of moral hand job in the process. I'm not for making my or in any way implying that my guests ought to stroke my good feelin' charity stick.

But can't you see where I'm coming from a bit, Shayna? Who feels all good that that kid is being fed? You. That couple might feel passingly good about it, but not in the way that the would if they were using their new toaster, or looking at their new candlesticks. But you do- you feel that right now. They don't feel charitable or good at all. So in the end that was a gift you yourself. Thats cool, but it's not a gift and it's just barely charity.

What a bunch of utter CRAP. You appreciate a bride's "honesty" that she's soliciting for her self, but you find it dishonest that she's saying she'd rather the cash go to a charity? Utterly stunning logic there, pal.

And remember, our friends didn't want that stupid toaster or those ugly candlesticks. They REQUESTED NO GIFTS. What part of that don't you understand?

And since these are MY friends and you don't know them from jack shit, I think I'm in a much better position to know that they feel VERY GOOD about the fact that children who are dying are getting their wishes granted instead of themselves having to schlep to the mall to return some piece of crap bowl they can't fucking use.

MORON.

[Odesio]

Originally posted by even sven

And I'm the only one that thinks thats tacky.

I agree that is is tacky. I suppose if someone worked really hard towards that charity that might be a different story. For example if I gave Jimmy Carter a 1,000,000 dollar donation to Habitat for Humanity for his birthday. I'd rather get someone a gift certificate then some lame "I donated this in your name" card and I think gift certificates are somewhat tacky.

Marc

[ResIpsaLoquitor]

Better yet, why not save on costs and fabricate a charity? Give a card that says "A donation has been made in your name to The Human Fund."

See, and nobody's the wiser.

[Miller]

Originally posted by Shayna
Well of course. But in what way is the bride in this scenario expecting recompense? Or for that matter, the actual donors of the cash for the chosen cause?

Well, the "recompense" would be the good will of everyone who knows she gave money to charity (or, at least, passed up the opportunity for expensive gifts in favor of that money going to charity.) The "reward" is that everyone thinks better of her for being concerned about cancer research.

And how, in the above example, is the bride giving money to a cancer foundation in memory of her deceased mother, an effort to make her look like a wonderful and caring person? Her mother is dead. She can't be at the wedding. I'm sure this makes the bride a little sad, don't you? Perhaps this is her way of honoring her mother in her absence, by directing cash gifts to a charity that would benefit others with the same disease. Or are you and even sven mind readers and know this particular bride's motives are egotistical?

I don't know about even sven, but ever since the accident at the nuclear plant, I have been a mindreader.

Seriously, though, I don't have a problem with the bride's actions. Like I said in my first post, all that stuff about what the "real" motives behind charity don't add up to a hill of beans, it's just empty philosophizing. What matters is that more money goes to cancer research, the cure for cancer is found that much sooner, and untold millions of lives are saved. This is manifestly a Good Thing, so who cares why someone does it?

Like I said above, I think it's just plain tacky to solicit money in ANY FORM for ANY PURPOSE at a wedding reception, so in that regard I agree with the OP that this whole "wishing well" thing is, in fact, tacky. But to judge the bride so harshly for putting up a charitable donation box (so to speak), but say it doesn't bug her that the greedy bride wants to put a cash jar out for herself -- well, I find that -- odd.

Can't argue with any of that.

[Lissa]

Originally posted by even sven
The same goes when you donate money to a charitable cause in someone's name as a "gift" (note this doesn't count if the person involved is dead and you are donateing what would be an inhertence).

What about funeral notices which say, "In lieu of flowers, please donate to _____ in _____'s memory"? (This is what my will requests.)

[Monty]

I've received announcements for weddings, funerals, etc. in which I've been asked to "donate to your favourite charity in X's name." I think that's kind of nice. It's also kind of nice if the announcement asks for a donation to the wedded, deceased, etc. person's favourite charity. I guess it's just up to the folks concerned how they wish to be honoured/remembered.

And it is a gift. An action can be just as much a gift as a physical item. Maybe it's even more of a gift, a better gift.

[PunditLisa]

Better yet, why not save on costs and fabricate a charity? Give a card that says "A donation has been made in your name to The Human Fund."

And to make it look more realistic, you can even create a phony website! The Human Fund

As to the OP, I don't think you should solicit money, even for a charity, at a wedding reception. Not because I don't think the bride's heart isn't in the right place, but for other reasons:

1) A "wishing well" that announces it is for a charity will place pressure on people who have already bought a gift to give a second gift.

2) A wedding reception is a celebration of a marriage. The focus should remain on the bride and groom, not the bride and her dear late mother. There is a time and a place to memorialize her mother. That place is not her wedding reception.

3) Her husband's Aunt Elsie came to celebrate her nephew's marriage. If she gave a gift, monetary or otherwise, it was because of her connection to her nephew. She didn't know the bride's mother and only barely knows the bride. She very well might not appreciate that her gift was diverted to the bride's charity.

4) There's not a way to publicize that the bride prefers monetary donations to be given to such and such charity without making it seem that she *expects* a gift.

5) If the bride cut a few corners at her wedding (e.g. didn't order the cutesy napkins or party favors) so that she could give that money to a charity, that is certainly an honorable thing to do. However, I agree with the OP that there is no reason to publicize it.

6) As the hostess, you are supposed to make your guests important and honored. Telling them you diverted funds from their reception in order to make a contribution to a charity is a bit like telling them that they are of secondary importance.

[CrankyAsAnOldMan]

Do you find that memorials in lieu of flowers are a different thing, or the same sort of offense?

For me personally, I am someone who gets a little skeeved out by throwing parties/events where people are "expected" by society to bring me or my family gifts. I know it's well-wishing, and all that, and a long tradition, but I loathe it that this is so ingrained, merely by addressing an invitation it's like soliciting for gifts.

It's a no-win on a wedding, because expectations are so ingrained. Worse yet, people who never give a rat's ass about etiquette in any other segement of their lives suddenly go screaming to Emily Post for nuptials. It's an offense to "assume" anyone will get you a gift, etc, so you cannot make any reference to gifts, subtle or overt, even to say you don't want any. I truly sympathize with these couples--they are trying to do a nice thing, but in doing so they end up violating some norms.

Weddings aside...For me, offering a charitable outlet is a way to reinforce your seriousness about "no gifts." In the case of my son's 2nd birthday we rented out the local petting farm so anyone who came could have some nice family time. I said we wanted no gifts but if anyone couldn't bear to come emptyhanded, they could bring a donation of arts or crafts supplies which we'd give to the low-income nursery school in town. This might have been a little tacky, but it allowed me to invite many more casual friends than I otherwise would have. I agree it might have been nicer to let them pick their charity, but since this was kid-affiliated it seemed a good match with our event. It also allowed for inexpensive contributions (a box of crayons or some colored paper was a more than adequate thing to bring).

I realize some people would find this tacky, but I can live with that.

[Orbifold]

Originally posted by even sven
The same goes when you donate money to a charitable cause in someone's name as a "gift" (note this doesn't count if the person involved is dead and you are donateing what would be an inhertence). That isn't a gift. That is you deciding what cause you want to support. That is you supporting that cause. That is you getting all the warm charitable fuzzies, and you gaining all the personal and social commendations for being such a wonderful person. And then you want to pass that off as a gift? All that can happen by turning a charitable donation into a gift is that you insult the giftee by showing off how much more thoughful you are then them, and then expecting thanks and more commendation for it! What a scam!

Oh, bullshit. For two Christmases now my wife and I have donated to a charity in my father's name instead of giving him a gift at his request. The man is simply impossible to buy for anyway: he has no hobbies and has every material possession he could possibly need that I can afford. So what should I do? Should I buy him some useless piece of crap that he'll never need, never use, and probably never even look at twice, and claim that this is somehow an expression of my love for him? Or should I try to find and support a charitable cause that I know he supports, and do what I can to help them?

Last year, we donated to the Hospice Association of Ontario, a group with which my father has volunteered with in the past and whose activities I know he feels are important. It was not "insulting the giftee"; he was honestly and genuinely moved. It was also not indulging in my own "charitable fuzzies"; my own choice would probably have been to give the money to a literacy-promoting organization, or Habitat for Humanity.

And it sure as hell wasn't "showing off how much more thoughful you are than them, and then expecting thanks and more commendation for it". My Dad would have to be a pretty shallow bastard indeed to think of Christmas giving as some kind of competition. He knows he's hard to buy for, and he's smart enough to know my love for him isn't measured by the size of the box his gift comes in. That's why he suggested donations to charity in the first place. And if you think that this was somehow more selfish of me than giving him a tie and expecting him to pretend to enjoy it then you're just wrong.

[Orbifold]

Originally posted by Orbifold
...a group with which my father has volunteered with in the past...

Heh. That'll teach me to try and be grammatically correct, won't it?

[Enderw24]

Orbifold, even sven said specifically that there was a difference between me giving to a charity I want and me giving to a charity you want. So while I can't claim to speak for even sven, I think your scenario is one the OP will agree with.

[Orbifold]

Enderw24, I didn't see even sven making that distinction. I saw him make a blanket statement, particularly in the paragraph I quoted, that all donations to charity in someone else's name were a case of "you deciding what cause you want to support".

But I will let even sven speak for himself on that point. If he decides to come back to this thread and say that a donation to charity in someone else's name is a gift when the recipient specifically asks for it, and when the charity in question is chosen for the recipient's benefit and not the giver's, then I won't disagree with him.

[PunditLisa]

Do you find that memorials in lieu of flowers are a different thing, or the same sort of offense?

IMO, they are different because you don't send invitations to wakes. Wedding receptions, on the other hand, are invitation-only events. You are a *guest* to a party celebrating a couple's marriage. Gifts are appropriate but never mandatory. And as such it would be gauche for a host to mention gifts in the issuance of the invitation.

[CrazyCatLady]

I think, to a certain extent, everyone's right. Givein to charity in someone else's name is a gift, and it's also you deciding which charity you want to support.

Donations in someone else's name make the recipeint feel good, as well as providing a tax break. for them. These donations are as much gifts as the ugly neclaces and earrings people inundate me with every Christmas, not to mention the bath stuff I'm allergic to.

However, even when you donate to someone else's pet charity, you're deciding whether or not you want your money to go there, even if it's under someone else's name. For example, let's say my parents want to give me the gift of a charitable donation. I give to a certain homeless animal-welfare group when I can, and also to a homeless human-welfare group when I can. They can either split the donation between the groups, or choose the one they'd rather donate to (I support both equally, remember). If I give to multiple charities, splitting the donation up becomes less and less feasible, so they have to choose the one they'd rather support.

Persoanlly, I don't see the problem with charity donations at a wedding. For one thing, no one is going to be keeping and publicizing a list of who does or doesn't put something in the wishing well. It's a quiet, out of the way reminder that the bride loves and misses her mother and wishes she was here to share a joyous day. It's the same as lighting a candle for someone before the ceremony, or laying a rose in their seat during the processional.

I also don't see the big fuss about donations in leu of favors. Personally, I consider a donation a much beter gift than the little boxes of almonds or mints, or candies that you usually get. They're never fit to eat, but you hate to just toss them because they were a wedding favor, so they just sit there for ages taking up space. Give me something that I can say, 'Oh, that's nice," and file away, please.