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#1
05-02-2003, 04:45 AM
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SportsRadio listeners, anyone a Kornheiser or Rome fan?
(if there's a better forum for this, feel free to suggest it)
I was wondering about the Rome/Kornheiser rivalry. Apparently there is such a rivalry, but it predates my listening to either guy. Now Rome is coming back to ESPN, and Kornheiser is still on, and I can tell from some stuff Tony says that he really can't stand the type of emailer/caller/fan that Rome encourages to talk on his radio show. Does anyone know the origin of this rivalry between the two sportsradio broadcasters? 
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#2
05-02-2003, 09:08 AM
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I wouldn't say that Rome encourages typical sportsradio calls on his show. The takes called in by the clones are really scripted mini-monologues (and some are very cleaver). It's not the typical "who's better, Koby or T-Mac? Give us a call and let us know what you think" sportstalk. Man, I hate that crap. Here in DFW we have the greatness of SportsRadio 1310 The Ticket, so I don't listen to Kornheiser or any other ESPN or FoxSports show.
Pash
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#3
05-02-2003, 09:14 AM
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I listen to both shows semi-regularly (having a job makes it impossible to listen TOO often), and enjoy both. I like Kornheiser a LITTLE better, because he's not quite so full of himself, and isn't so obsessed with making himself look cool.
Rome is genuinely funny, and I always get a lot of laughs from his show. But what annoys me is how quickly he transforms from a self-styled "hard-hitting" tough guy who "tells it like it is" into a fawning butt-kisser whenever he interviews an athlete.
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#4
05-02-2003, 09:30 AM
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They play Rome, but they don't play the Kornheiser show here. I can't say I've ever heard Rome say anything about Tony, but admittedly, I haven't listened for a few months now. So if there's a rivalry, I haven't noticed.
For the most part, I like Jim Rome. He really is pretty funny at times, he draws some pretty amazing people to interviews, and many of the "clones" have some good stuff to say, as opposed to local talk radio shows whose callers are often so bad that I turn the radio off to avoid the pain of listening. The one thing that bugs me about Rome is that he'll occasionally run a funny topic into the ground. He'll rant on and on about something for 10 minutes when it's really only funny for about 2 tops.
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#5
05-02-2003, 09:42 AM
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I prefer Tony Bruno to either of them.
That said, Rome really tend to pull in the better guests of the two. Still the problem with Rome, is that his show lapses too often into cliches and flogging the same sorry topics and jokes over and over. He was fresh and interesting about 4 years ago, but sadly relies too much of the same sorry schitck and angry loser callers he did then. Looks like another flop TV from him. How many chance does he and Keith Obermann get anyway?
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#6
05-02-2003, 10:12 AM
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Kornheiser started out here on WTEM in Washington. I used to be one of his regular callers.
I dislike Rome immensely exactly because he plays to the typical dumbshit macho sports fan. It's just stupid. I like TK because he's genuinely funny (not putting on an act) and he's intelligent. I also like the fact that, even though it's a sports show, he doesn't allow athletes on the show. Your typical athlete really shouldn't be allowed in front of a mic (a la Todd Jones recent homophobic comments). TK relies more on reporters who know sports rather than athletes who may know how to play but couldn't be trusted to form coherent sentences. Really, it's a higher level of discussion in a genre desperate for it.
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#8
05-02-2003, 01:38 PM
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We do not get TK here in Houston, but from what I have seen on PTI on ESPN, he's OK.
We do however get Jim Rome, and I treasure the moments that I get to listen to him. He's hilarious at times, he rarely pulls punches, he gets great interviews etc. That being said, he is not for everyone.
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#9
05-02-2003, 01:41 PM
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I listen to both, occasionally. On the whole, I think I like Kornheiser better, maybe because he's a little more cerebral.
I generally like what Rome has to say, but he repeats himself, then he reiterates, then he restates his point, holds forth, blathers, elucidates, sermonizes, elaborates, elucidates, and makes himself generally prolix. Then he goes back to the beginning and starts again in order to make absolutely positive all the clones understand his point. He could get three times as many takes in if he'd just exercise a little self-restraint in re: indulging in the sound of his own voice. Here's an example of my other Rome pet peeve. Rome: I'm getting lots of e-mails from the clones on "X" subject. That's just disgusting. I'm not going to talk about "X". People who say "Y" about "X" are evil and foul. Nobody sane thinks "Z" about "X". What kind of foul life form would say "Q" about "X". And on and on.... Not going to talk about something? Then STFU about it already! You give the subjects you won't talk about more airtime than the stuff you DO talk about. That being said, I really do enjoy Rome's show. I generally agree with what he's got to say, and he does get excellent guests (even if he does stick his head halfway up their lower intestines.)
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#10
05-02-2003, 03:47 PM
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I prefer Rome to Kornheiser or Bruno (I think both are annoying). I can understand that Rome sometimes runs a topic into the ground, but that's ok. He pulls the best guests by far, and if he kisses a little butt, so what? He still calls a spade a spade when the situation warrants it. Do you think Eric Gagne felt like he was getting his butt kissed? Or Rae Carruth? Not likely.
Some of his regular callers are knowledgable and witty, and the others are just like every other sports call-in show gets! Rome is an acquired taste, to be sure. I have been listening to him for over 10 years, and have heard plenty of people say I'm out of my mind, especially since I'm a girl. Apparently, I shouldn't like sports or something... But if you really want to make me happy, give Bob Costas a three-hour prime time show! 
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#11
05-02-2003, 06:58 PM
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I'd love a Bob Costas radio program.
Of course, occassionaly he waxes nostalgic a bit. Mentions players that called Walters Johnson "meat". I get Rome here in Houston. He has kind of gotten old. Now that I have Satellite Radio, I get the Dan Patrick Show live in its entirety (it comes on abbreviated following Rome). Patrick, Dibble, and Saulsberry are an INCREDIBLE team. Patrick is much more open on his radio show than on Sportscenter. They talk about Sports, news and enterainment (a little diversity is a good thing on a slow sports day). They have the best interviews and they bring on the on air personalities of ESPN (and their analysts). Makes for a nice program.
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#12
05-02-2003, 07:02 PM
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I'm a Kornheiser fan, I do what I can to listen everyday. He's intelligent, and it's an intelligent show. I like to hear what the sports writers and commentators he has on have to say.
I really can't stand Rome's show. I used to hate it when I was in an area that only carried it. Still, both are better than the Sports Babe.
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#13
05-02-2003, 07:55 PM
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Quote:
HOOOOORRRRRRIBBBBBBLLLLLLLEEEEEEE!
__________________
"I'm a white male, age 18 to 49. Everyone listens to me -- no matter how dumb my suggestions are."
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#15
05-03-2003, 04:46 PM
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Re: Rome's callers: Intelligent and informed??
As if!! Christ, it's the same, "(insert name of town/team/player/coach here) sucks/is a bitch/should die/will get crushed when (insert name of callers team/callers favorite player) comes to town. OUT." Yeah, that's intellligent talk worth hearing. 
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#16
05-03-2003, 11:06 PM
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Let me tell you about Jim Rome. The guy is an asshole. And a punk.
I used to listen every day back in 1996-1997-1998. I used to fax in things (before they email everything in) which got read on the air a lot. I thought he was a very funny guy and he would "smak" people who needed to be "smacked" One day they do a bit about the National Spelling Bee where the 12 year old girl who won started hyperventilating as she spelled the last word and won the whole thing. But at the end of this bit, as he is talking about this 12 year old girl, someone's daughter, Rome says "Stupid little bitch." I couldn't believe my ears. It bothered the shit out of me so I faxed in a short letter telling him that. I figured he went too far and was just trying to be funny so I kept listening every day. The next year 1998 he has more clips from that year's spelling bee. And he says the same shit. "Stupid little bitch" 2 or 3 times. I faxed something in expressing how I felt, and wrote and mailed a long letter telling him I would never listen to that show or anything he did again and that you don't talk about kids like that. Any man who would talk about a little girl like that on a national radio show is a piece of shit. He should have been taken off the air, and I am surprised more people were not upset about it. And Astorian was absolutely correct about this : "But what annoys me is how quickly he transforms from a self-styled "hard-hitting" tough guy who "tells it like it is" into a fawning butt-kisser whenever he interviews an athlete." This asshole has something seriously wrong with him to say something like that about those kids, and then he never misses a chance to jump in everyone's shit when they do something wrong. As I recall, he is very conservative politically. Another conservative hypocrite. And a punk.
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#17
05-03-2003, 11:54 PM
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I think the fact that Rome got his ass kicked by Jim Everett says a lot.
 Seriously, it does. He was being a prick for no reason and somebody called him on it. I have no idea why he puts on such an attitude. I listen to sports radio, but I prefer actual analysis to shouting and schtick. Of course, the latter two are really what sports talk, and radio as a whole, runs on. One professor I had in a journalism class liked to quote a maxim of his: "Have a take and don't suck." It's literally the most useless piece of advice I've ever heard. As a student, it provided no help in journalism or writing, and I think it illustrates how he, and sadly, so many other pundits, work: whatever the facts are, just have an opinion and be very loud and unreasonable about it. Never consider the complexities of any issue. The more names you call your opponents and the more smug you act, the higher your ratings will go. Arg. I wonder if I have more issues with Rome, the quote, or that prof. But I'd say I prefer Kornheiser, though on PTI I like Wilbon better.
__________________
"Wrong, but eloquent" - twickster
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#18
05-04-2003, 01:46 AM
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I think they are apples and oranges since their styles are so different. Actually, I like them both. I like how Tony is smart and dry and can talk about a number of things, especially when he does his movie reviews. And I also enjoy the smack from Rome's show (but I agree that he is a a crappy interviewer).
The best part of Rome's show is the stuff that the "clones" do--the emails and the phone calls. I think of his show as more sports comedy than sports talk. It's not really about who has this insight or this point, it's who can make the best jokes about something, whether it's Jim himself or a caller (I disagree, Payton, the callers aren't that ridiculous unless they are doing it as a joke, like Willie in KC or something) or an emailer.
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#21
05-05-2003, 09:17 AM
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I don't know which is worse, turning on the radio and hearing Rome's annoying drabble or flipping the station and catching "Dr." Laura in the middle of one of her lectures.
Give me Tony any day.
__________________
I am that hero.
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#23
05-05-2003, 11:27 AM
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I'm a big fan of Kornheiser, and generally can't stand Rome. But the other day, I heard Rome make some good, somewhat controversial (to sports fans, perhaps) points about gay athletes. It was surprising to hear him defend gay athletes, simply because of his uber-macho aura. I won't listen to the show regularly or anything, because I just can't stand his manly radio voice, but I have a tad of respect for him now.
hrh
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#24
05-05-2003, 12:54 PM
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Until he uttered "stupid little bitch" in a cold demeaning way about that 12 year old girl. Not once , but a couple of times. And I haven't listened in 5 years because of that incident.
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#25
05-05-2003, 01:42 PM
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I used to like Rome quite a bit, and dislike Kornheiser quite a bit. Kornheiser's cut the gap quite a bit (strangely enough for me, since I moved _away_ from DC), to the point where on a given day I'd probably prefer Kornheiser's show. (He's on an FM frequency where I live, so that might have something to do with it, I suppose.)
As for the "rivalry," I'd guess it dates to when ESPN Radio (or at least WTEM in Washington) shifted its lineup to put Kornheiser from 10 am - 1pm, Eastern, which means that one hour of his show (the last hour) overlaps with one hour of Rome's show (the first hour). WTEM in DC had just picked up Rome about six months earlier and not surprisingly (since Andy Pollin, or Andy Polleee, is the PD) it carried (and still carries) Kornheiser all three hours, then picks up the last two hours of Rome. This was about when Rome's show was moving progressively eastward...Detroit, DC, Miami. Rome started demanding he get his "third hour back," and every so often when a DC caller said Rome should bring a "tour stop" to DC, Rome said that if DC gave him back his third hour, then he'd do a DC tour stop. (All of this stuff soon became mocked by Kornheiser.) Rome and the Clones then derided Kornheiser's show for its "sports...and other stuff" approach, and after a while DC clones (or whoever...) would call in to report Tony's poll question of the day, which always seemed to be "What's you favorite fruit?" or "What's your favorite condiment?" Rome at some point let the Clones do this exclusively, and would only add that some cities prefer "the local guy," which is sort of disingenuous of course, since at the time (still not full-scale Clear Channel/Premiere world domination) Kornheiser probably had as many affiliates. As mentioned, Kornheiser would mock Rome's insistence for the third hour and would use Rome's by-now-cliched "gloss" in a similar manner: "rack me," "thanks for the vine," etc. For a while, Kornheiser referred to Rome as an "overgrown Ken doll." I suspect, but I of course don't know, that WTEM management (Clear Channel types) probably instructed Mr. Tony to back off a bit when he's referring to a Clear Channel property or find a new home station, because he doesn't do it as much. (Then again, Kornheiser is the only WTEM property to get ratings; he's No. 1 middays 25-54 males in DC, which doesn't mean he dominates like Don and Mike do in DC, but it's pretty good.) Or maybe this is just a tired subject, since most of the "rivalry" occurred in around 1999-2000. Aw, the joys of working on the 7th floor of a government building, listening to a 50,000 wat station with good building penetration. Oh, an by the way, everybody's taste is different, but I find the Dan Patrick Show especially tiresome. IMHO Patrick is a pompous lightweight. He's not as objectionable as J.T. the Brick, but he's in the same league.
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#26
05-05-2003, 04:54 PM
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djf750, I'm not saying it never happened, but I listen to that show every day (for a long, long time), and I have never heard Jim Rome refer to a 12 year old girl as a "stupid little bitch." I have heard him refer to professional athletes in derogatory terms plenty of times, but never a "non-combatant." I don't think that the parent company would stand for that (at least I hope not).
Like I said, I'm not saying it never happened, but I would be shocked if I heard it said, and I haven't yet. Any other Rome listeners hear that blast?
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#27
05-06-2003, 12:10 AM
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I think the worst thing I ever saw Rome say was on his TV show a few years back when Playboy magazine was offering to do a feature on a women's basketball player who was voted the best-looking athlete or some such. Rome actually said that Playboy was disgusting, claimed that it's only readers were dirty old men and other perverts. Now this is Playboy we're talking about. This isn't Larry Flynt's latest collection of hardcore lesbians. This isn't Bob Guccione's latest spread of a woman peeing into various pieces of dinnerware. This is Playboy. You know, the magazine that has real articles, interesting interviews, has featured some of the best short fiction written over the past few decades...need I go on? This is about as softcore as nudie-mags get, it doesn't even really deserve the label "porn"...in fact, even my calling it a "nudie-mag" just now might be overreaching. And here's Jim Rome ranting about how perverted the people who read the magazine are. Did he realize how many of his audience, males aged 18-50, probably are Playboy readers, at least occasionnally? It sounded like one of those things guys occasionally say when women are around because they think it'll make them seem progressive on and sympathetic to women's issues, to try to get laid, but that no man actually believes. In the process, he just insulted a large percentage of his viewers. That was it for me, I've refused to listen to or watch Rome since then (excluding for about 2 hours per year when I catch part of his year-in-review show on my way home to Maryland, when he's the only thing you can get on the AM radio after I go through Wheeling WV onto the Penn Turnpike...he actually puts clips of his idiot callers into the year-in-review, like some caller in Virginia who likes to use metal detectors, oh frickin' boy.)
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#28
05-06-2003, 12:21 AM
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Here's a conspiracy for the ages--was the Rome/Everett fight on the set of Talk2 staged? It seems like it would be just the thing to put both Rome and ESPN2 on the map.
War "Rome is Burning!"
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#29
05-06-2003, 12:37 AM
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The worst thing about Rome is that he could have an intelligent, insightful show if he wanted to. Instead he just panders to the lowest common demoniator in his audience. He tries way too hard to be cool/hip and only his fans would actually think he is.
There's almost no sports talk worth listening to (and very few sports writers worht reading for that matter).
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#30
05-06-2003, 12:44 AM
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I also emailed Bill Plaschke, the LA Times columnist who would appear on his show and he emailed me back (after about 3 emails) and said he heard it too and he told me he said something to Rome about it. I too find it hard to believe a grown man would say something like that ON THE RADIO and not have anyone at the station reprimand him. I know it sounds very strange but he said it in 1997 and then again 1 year later when they made fun of the spelling bee again. It is held every May. I used to love that show, and I like I said earlier, he read a lot of my faxes on the air. I looked forward to listening and found the show very funny and entertaining (except when he was doing another interview and kissing ass) I thought he was a great guy until I heard that. Find the audio from that date and a few days earlier that week and you can hear it yourself. I know it sounds crazy, and like I said already I could barely believe he said it and then said it a few more times. It really bothered me because my daughter was 12 at the time and because of the cold way he said it. There is something wrong with that guy.
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#31
05-06-2003, 01:32 AM
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Ok, I'll bite...
I've listened to Jim Rome since he started for XTRA 690 (San Diego) back in 1991. He has come a long way from his "scrub saturday" status to one of the biggest talk show hosts in America (and dare I say, Canada?). His gloss was refreshing back then and still has stamina to this day, although he doesn't refer to it often of late. He's had numerous interviews, some extremely insightful (Sheldon Kennedy, Utley, Billy Bean, Bob Costas, Rex Huddler, etc., etc.), some quite humurous (Don King, Mark Grace, T-Buck, Rex Huddler, Vargas v. Oscar de la Hoya, etc., etc.) and some dreadful (usually a college kid who got drafted in the first round), but overall, his show has still the bite it did last decade. When he is on the radio, the day flies by quickly and I usually have a smile on my face by lunchtime. That's what matters. Sports is a microcosm of real life, and Rome does a great job of leveling the players to our level through interviews or through parody. The "Mercur", "The Cat", "Father's supporting their daughters in the porn business" < >, makes me laugh to the point of tears. Sports radio with humor, and great interviews = perfect combonation.Spelling Bee Girl - I don't recall Rome calling the 12 year old a "bitch" either, but I do remember Rome stating that "she was climaxing" when she spelled the word 'eumonym'(sp?) for the championship. She screamed the letters out and did have some level of distress in her voice worthy of a climax. The Everett incident - Rome was just as upset with "Chrissie" like the rest of us So-Cal Ram fans with the phantom sack he took way back then, he deserved it. Rome said that to "Jim" like a representative for all of us collective So-Cals, and we saw nothing wrong with it. As for the Kornheiser - Rome rivalry, callers would report the stupidity of Kornheiser's "polls" and Rome would usually take the high road, "I talk sports and interviews, and other people will talk about me.", (referring to Kornheiser) and then move on to other issues. Rome does talk about slowly bumping out Rush Limbaugh on some of the affiliates that he would occassionally pick up, but other than that, he doesn't rip on them (too much - Sports Blob!) An acquired taste (like beer), Rome is still refreshing to listen to considering whats on. Some people have ridden his coat tails (JT the Brick, the Mayor of Poway and the Phone Slap Stevie Carbone), but Jim Rome has never ridden on anybody's tail to get where he is. Asskissing on occassion to get an interview is the only weak point to his character, but the interview style is only second to Bob Costas, and Jim did it from the ground up without a network behind him in the beginning -- I guess you do have to resort to asskissing in the beginning like he did, but he doesn't do it as much now because of his status.
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#33
05-06-2003, 10:02 AM
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I'm curious Yeticus, if what I am saying is true, (which it is) would it bother you enough to quit listening to him? And if not, what WOULD he have to say? Before this incident, he also would make reference to Jon Benet Ramsey, the little girl who was murdered. This was about a year after her murder. He would say things like "I'm getting a lot of Jon Benet Ramsey faxes, and I am NOT going to read them. QUIT SENDING THEM." He did this in a JOKING way, and that bothered me too. He should never have even mentioned her name on the air. This was a little girl who was brutally murdered and he was treating it very lightly.
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#34
05-06-2003, 11:15 AM
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RexDart , thanks for the thanks....
Yeticus Rex , while Rome doesn't usually join in the mocking of Kornheiser's act now (thereby I suppose taking the high road), the thing of it is that in the beginning of the "rivalry," he did dog Kornheiser's show _a lot_. For me, I guess my taste in any talk show host is cyclical. With Rome, I go through phases. Only now, the "on" phases are much shorter, and the "off" phases are much longer.
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#35
05-06-2003, 11:26 AM
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Slight hijack, but on the subject of Jim Rome...I thought he said after he left "The Last Word" that he wasn't going to do TV anymore. So--was "I'm not going to do TV anymore" code for "I'm not going to work for Fox anymore," or did ESPN make an offer he couldn't refuse?
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#36
05-06-2003, 11:36 AM
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Duke, I didn't know Rome said he'd never do TV anymore. I remember him saying on his radio show that he was weighing whether to keep the radio show _or_ the nightly TV show, because both were too much, especially with him now being a father. Also, I think the choice was easy because FOXSportsNet is a sinking ship, with only the "Best Damn Sports Show Period" gaining any traction. But at the time (at least from when I listened) he made it apparent that he was looking for a weekly television show.
BTW, for those from the DFW area who have praised "The Ticket"--I looked up the ratings and they drew a 3.3 overall share (10th in the market) last ratings period, which is _awesome_ for an all-sports station. The only other sports station I see listed, an ABC-owned station that must be the ESPN Radio affiliate, doesn't ever make it to a 1.0 share, and I don't even see what must be the FOXSportsRadio/Premiere sports affiliate listed. On a related note, is Norm Hitzges well-liked in the DFW area? (I suppose he must be.) I recall him being a spectacular flame-out as a color man during ESPN's first season doing baseball (1990).
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#37
05-06-2003, 05:37 PM
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I will agree that jokes about dead people are in questionable taste. Granted, I have a questionable sense of humor, so I still laugh. But is it really that big a deal? Slight hijack- Could the tabloids get off that little girl now? I swear I saw a story about that girl and her mom last week.
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#38
05-06-2003, 07:40 PM
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And so he panders to them. Good for him, it makes him money, but it makes for an extremely idiotic show. "Rack 'em", "grill" "jack" etc are not uber-cool code words or slang - they're just plain stupid. Of course, his show might also be better if he could make a single point in less than 5 minutes, without those tortuous pieces of dead air and the repetitive statements (not even reworded - he says the same damn sentence 4 or 5 times). Whether you like Tony K. or not, he is light-years more intelligent, as are his listeners.
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#39
05-06-2003, 10:48 PM
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Someone earlier mentioned that Rome's interviews with college guys/recent draftees can be brutal. The single funniest riff I've ever heard him do was replaying the one word response Shawn Marion of the Suns (after just having been drafted out of UNLV) gave Rome: "Yeah." (With a slight sniffle.) ---So, how about the Dodgers? They really suck this year, don't they? "Yeah." ---So, Shaq's an awesome player, don't you think? "Yeah." ---In this complicated world, do you ever feel the urge to drop everything you're doing and take a deep breath? "Yeah." That kind of thing. I've only heard Rome carry on with the same bit for a whole segment and remain entertaining: The Shawn Marion bit, and the bit where he describes "every episode of Cops."
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#40
05-07-2003, 12:37 AM
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BTW, clones, J-Stu on Blind Date--May 9.
So who saw "Rome is Burning" tonight? I think it has room to grow but showed promise. It seemed like a "lite" version of the radio show. I'm surprised that they couldn't find better voice mails to play. But I liked the panel discussion (especially because they had Dennis Haysbert on). Overall it was an average debut, but I'll give it the benefit of the doubt for now. I'll probably enjoy it more after I go back home where Rome isn't on the radio and I won't have already heard most of his takes. Oh, and best interview ever--the Chucky Brown "Red Lobster" take, which led to this classic "Last Word" reset which is often replayed: JR: We're joined on The Last Word by Isiah Thomas. Zeke, good to have you on the program. IT: Thanks, Jim. I just got back from Red Lobster.
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#41
05-07-2003, 12:54 AM
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Another against Rome.....I don't find him funny and have heard too many barbs tossed out that were utterly tasteless. There is no journalistic integrity and very little humor to make him palpable. Let him burn.
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#42
05-10-2003, 03:11 PM
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Norm is okay. He is an incredible sports expert. He knows more than any other sports person in the area. The only problem is that he is such a corny dork. He is generally well received though.
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#43
05-10-2003, 04:55 PM
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I like Kornheiser's show, but for reasons I haven't found out yet ESPN's local affiliate (KSPN 710 in Los Angeles) dropped it some months ago.
What we now have is Mike Golic and Mike Greenberg's four-hour show, through the magic of recording and replay technology, on for seven hours each morning. It's live from 3-7, and they simply replay three of the hours from 7-10. I believe the change was made around the time TK got in trouble for something he said, but I can't remember the details. Nor do I have any idea if the two were actually related at all. While we're talking about him, does anyone know?
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