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  #1  
Old 06-13-2003, 03:26 PM
samarm samarm is offline
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What's the deal with goths, anyway?

So, I'm walking down the street, minding my own. Three goths walking on the other side of the street. One of them shouts at me "I bet you like young boys!", and they all laughed. I was so suprised that I couldn't think of anything witty to retort with. This experience stuck with me, and it's been bothering me.

Anyway, got me thinking how I've never met a goth who was a normal, friendly kind of person. They all think that other people are looking down on them and that they need to prove their lifestyle by being in your face.

It might just be me, but they seem to be mostly kids who are pissed off with life and think that by dressing in black clothes, wearing pale makeup and listening to bleak and depressing music, that they are rebelling against the system. To me they just seem like sad lost souls who would rather drop out than deal with life's problems.

Maybe I've got it all wrong. Maybe I'm prejudiced. What's the deal with these people, anyway?
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  #2  
Old 06-13-2003, 03:48 PM
Loneraven Loneraven is offline
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Um... I wear black. Have a dog collar, too. With rather nice spiky bits. Am looking into getting hold of some black 'n' silver boots. Don't wear pale makeup, as it doesn't work on my skin, but that's by the bye.

IMHO, it's a style. I don't know why it's associated with such an I-hate-the-world mentality, but I don't think it should be. For me it's just a style, a certain taste in clothes. I do wish the clothes I wear weren't associated with a negative stereotype, but you can't help what you like, and my clothes are just clothes that suit me.

YMMV. I realise I may not be typical of the teenage angst brigade.
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  #3  
Old 06-13-2003, 04:13 PM
Dogface Dogface is offline
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The goth's I've known have generally either been of three types:

Neurotic.
Antisocial.
Completely Lacking Fashion Sense.

Some are a mixture of any two or all three of the above. Generally, the last is the most common, with a mixture of the first and last being next most common.
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  #4  
Old 06-13-2003, 05:14 PM
ParentalAdvisory ParentalAdvisory is offline
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...And they seem to prefer Denny's at 04:00 in the morning.
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  #5  
Old 06-13-2003, 05:24 PM
LolaCocaCola LolaCocaCola is offline
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Re: What's the deal with goths, anyway?

Quote:
Originally posted by samarm
I was so suprised that I couldn't think of anything witty to retort with.
Hmmmm...

I think if you had responded with:

"And I'll bet you are wearin' the panties yer momma laid out for ya!"


That would've startled them.
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  #6  
Old 06-13-2003, 05:25 PM
LolaCocaCola LolaCocaCola is offline
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Or maybe it would've gotten yer ass kicked.

I'm not quite sure.
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  #7  
Old 06-13-2003, 05:27 PM
Mockingbird Mockingbird is offline
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Some are goth because of their accoutrements.

Some are considered goth because of their natural attitude, sans affectiation. One can have an attitude considered goth without being nasty to others, nihilistic, or self-destructive.
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  #8  
Old 06-13-2003, 06:10 PM
msmith537 msmith537 is offline
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Re: What's the deal with goths, anyway?

[quotes]samarm
I was so suprised that I couldn't think of anything witty to retort with.
[/quotes]


You should have said "YO!! MASCARA BOY!!! 'The Cure' FUCKING SUCKS!!"

Why does anyone dress in a manner that's unconventional or wear a hairstyle purely for schock value? For attention. Maybe They can't get positive attention through normal stuff so they try and get negative attention. Maybe everyone picks on them anyway so this way they can tell themselves it's because of how they dress, not because their jerks. Who knows?
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  #9  
Old 06-13-2003, 06:29 PM
XJETGIRLX XJETGIRLX is offline
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Re: Re: What's the deal with goths, anyway?

Quote:
Originally posted by msmith537
Why does anyone dress in a manner that's unconventional or wear a hairstyle purely for schock value?
Or maybe they just happen to find it aesthetically more appealing than a three piece monkey suit? But no, of course anyone who looks different is only doing it because they want to shock you. No one in the world has a unique sense of style, or thinks that stuff like collars, boots, spikes, fishnet tights or renaissance dresses actually looks good, it's just to get attention.

Christ.
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  #10  
Old 06-13-2003, 06:29 PM
samarm samarm is offline
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loneraven: I can totally understand where you are coming from, and I wouldn't presume to stereotype all people who wear black clothes as dysfunctional, and I meant no offense to any person in particular.

Of course everybody has a certain style. However, the goth style seems to have become a whole stream of fashion of its own. There are too many people who dress like this for it to be coincidence.

I guess being a goth gives you a sense of belonging to a kind of lifestyle club. You tend to hang out with other like minded people, listen to the same kind of music etc.

Unfortunately, goth lifestyle often presents the image of anti-social, intrevert self-inflicted depressives. Or maybe it's just a phase some kids have to go through... OK I'll stop now as I've started rambling!

btw, in hindsight it was probably best that I didn't reply to the insult shouted at me in the street. You never know what kind of spiky metal things these goths have on their body.
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  #11  
Old 06-13-2003, 06:36 PM
XJETGIRLX XJETGIRLX is offline
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samarm I think perhaps you're just painting goths with too broad a brush, and labelling every strangely-clad, dark young figure you meet as such. There are a thousand shades of individuality and creativity, and style that may look goth but aren't.
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  #12  
Old 06-13-2003, 06:42 PM
samarm samarm is offline
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Just wanted to post a quick reply to XJETXGIRLX: I think you may be right. I admit I'm pretty "square", so I can understand how that may be possible.
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  #13  
Old 06-13-2003, 07:28 PM
msmith537 msmith537 is offline
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Re: Re: Re: What's the deal with goths, anyway?

Quote:
Originally posted by XJETGIRLX
Or maybe they just happen to find it aesthetically more appealing than a three piece monkey suit? But no, of course anyone who looks different is only doing it because they want to shock you. No one in the world has a unique sense of style, or thinks that stuff like collars, boots, spikes, fishnet tights or renaissance dresses actually looks good, it's just to get attention.

Christ. [/B]
No one sits around in a three piece suit if they aren't at work.

People's clothing is an expression of how they want the world to perceive them. When I wear my blue Brooks Brothers suit and a power tie, I am trying to be percieved as important. When I wear an untucked Armani shirt and jeans with messed up hair, I am expressing myself as a hip, fun guy looking to party. When I wear cargo shorts, a ratty thermal long sleve T under an old T-shirt, I am expressing that I am so cool, I don't have to hide behind fancy clothes - or I just threw on the first thing I found.

Wearing 5 earings in your face, black spikey hair, fishnets and black on black generally is a statement of something more than "The Crow" is my favorite movie.
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  #14  
Old 06-13-2003, 07:29 PM
Ally424 Ally424 is offline
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My group of friends are average 18-early 20 year olds, and for the first time one of my good buddies brought a goth guy to my party last weekend. It was a little intimidating because I didn't think he would fit in very well with us. I had a talk with him and turns out he's very depressed, and grew up in a Catholic household with very narrowminded parents, who "can't understand that he likes to wear black, nor accept the fact that he is a wicken(sp)". Basically, a witch ? Anyway, I haven't really had much experience with goth-like people, but from the few experiences I have had, they have all had rough childhoods and "they dress how they are feeling inside". That's about it. What's funny to me is, or odd rather, is that I find most of these people who dress goth-like, do so because they want to be different , too. But the fact is, EVERYONE dresses to express themselves creatively, and such, so in actuality, by attempting to dress "differently", you are actually following a crowd. Everyone fits into some sort of crowd, no matter how you choose to see it.
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  #15  
Old 06-13-2003, 07:32 PM
Guinastasia Guinastasia is offline
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Actually, there are several goths right here at the SDMB who are pretty freaking cool.

IANAG, but I do LOVE the Victorian/Medieval Goth look. Crushed velvet, black lace, corsets, fishnet stockings and lush dark jewel tones. The Romantic Goth look.
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  #16  
Old 06-13-2003, 08:03 PM
Bippy the Beardless Bippy the Beardless is offline
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Cor, what a lot of prejudice in one small thread.
Seems a lot of you guys should try dressing up more and living on the wild side so to speak. If you can't manage that, then next time you meet someone whose clothes confuse you, say something like 'Those boots are really cool.' if you start positive you'll soon find most 'wierdos' are just like you really. As XJETGIRLX said there are many people who might look Goth to you who simply aren't. It is getting to the stage that anyone who is Goth tends not to say they are Goth for fear of being confused with Marilyn Mansun fans or whatever.
What makes a "True Goth" is as difficult a question as what makes a "True Scotsman". But here is my attempt: A true Goth would be far less likely to be rude to someone else than a Frat boy would. A "True Goth" may have an interest in 'Gothic horror' maybe an interest in the more decorative clothing styles of the nineteenth century, a liking for 'artsy' music, be influenced by the lifestyles and works of the romantic poets like Byron and Yeates (sp?), follow the music of people with similar interests.
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  #17  
Old 06-13-2003, 08:15 PM
Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor is offline
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Ummm...I live in a small Southern almost-no-goths city, & the local fratboys scream abuse at people when they drive by. And they're the crewcut/preppy set.

It ain't the style, it's the substance, or lack thereof.
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  #18  
Old 06-13-2003, 08:24 PM
XJETGIRLX XJETGIRLX is offline
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Re: Re: Re: Re: What's the deal with goths, anyway?

Quote:
Originally posted by msmith537
No one sits around in a three piece suit if they aren't at work.
Oh no? Tell that to my ex who owned a closet of nothing but expensive italian suits and tuxedos, yet was unemployed for years on end.

Quote:
People's clothing is an expression of how they want the world to perceive them. When I wear my blue Brooks Brothers suit and a power tie, I am trying to be percieved as important. When I wear an untucked Armani shirt and jeans with messed up hair, I am expressing myself as a hip, fun guy looking to party. When I wear cargo shorts, a ratty thermal long sleve T under an old T-shirt, I am expressing that I am so cool, I don't have to hide behind fancy clothes - or I just threw on the first thing I found.
Not definitively true. I don't dress based on how I want to be seen. I dress for comfort, and how I like to see myself. If you knew anything about personality theory you would understand that not all are as externally focused in their motivations as you appear to be. My motives don't stem from what external stimulus they will create. I like to wear combat boots because they're comfortable, and I like the way they support my fragile ankles. I also like that I have the added protection of being able to kick the shit out of someone should the need arise.

I wear a cross because I like the constant reminder of my faith, and I like the symbolism in the form itself.

I wear lots of dark eye make-up because I don't like the way I look without it. I feel like my eyeliner gives my gaze a certain steely strength I'm not able to create otherwise, and I like the feeling of hiding behind dark lashes when I want to be left alone.

Quote:
Wearing 5 earings in your face, black spikey hair, fishnets and black on black generally is a statement of something more than "The Crow" is my favorite movie.
Yes, it says that I'm someone who is comfortable enough with myself to express my inner sense of beauty honestly, openly and without regard for those who would judge me based on something so superficial as appearance alone.
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  #19  
Old 06-13-2003, 08:48 PM
Troy McClure SF Troy McClure SF is offline
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FWIW, the few goths I've known were very intelligent and open-minded, and I always looked forward to spending time with them.

Quote:
Originally posted by msmith537
Why does anyone dress in a manner that's unconventional or wear a hairstyle purely for schock value?
For some reason, I'm reminded of Apple's 1984 commercial.

Quote:
Maybe everyone picks on them anyway so this way they can tell themselves it's because of how they dress, not because their jerks.


Maybe they don't have any problem at all, and folks need to realize that looks don't necessarily have anything to do with personality. As much as I hate to do so, I'll recommend to you Bowling for Columbine, in which Marilyn Manson comes off far more intelligent than most people who spout their opinions in front of a camera.
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  #20  
Old 06-13-2003, 09:33 PM
Nocturne Nocturne is offline
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Uhm. I'm what a lot of people would call a "goth," and I'm a pretty damn cheerful, perky person. I don't revel in death, but I can appreciate the darker side of things. I think one can do that without being goth.

I like the style of clothing, some of the music, the whole subculture itself...sure, some goths annoy me, just like some hippies annoy me, some emo kids annoy me, etc.

I don't really have any piercings except in my ears, I don't wear the makeup often during the summer, and most of my clothes are nearly-formal. People often ask me why I'm so dressed up.

I just don't like the stupid stereotypes about goths. I don't assume everyone with bleached-blond hair wearing Abercrombie & Fitch is a capitalistic whore who listens to stupid music, has stupid ideas, and is probably a waste of oxygen.
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  #21  
Old 06-13-2003, 10:56 PM
Flutterby Flutterby is offline
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I semi-flirt along the edges of goth.. most of the time I'm a pretty casual person unless I need or want to dress up. Some of my clothes have a faintly gothic flair, mostly by accident I think. I don't have to worry about makeup much thanks to my naturally pale complexion.. Just a little black here and red there and I look grand.

I personally have found most of the goths I know to be fairly sane well adjusted people. Some did have problems, were/are depressed and/or angry people etc.. but not more so than any other group I've been known to associate with. (Which ranges from Candy Ravers and Goths to fairly 'normal' seeming well adjusted adults/young adults. Get togethers of my friends are strange and wonderful things.)

I will say though that some goths probably do cling to the whole 'us against them' thing and continually agonize more 'normal' people. But then so do some from a more visibly different group (whether in that group by choice or not)
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  #22  
Old 06-14-2003, 12:28 AM
msmith537 msmith537 is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Troy McClure SF
FWIW, the few goths I've known were very intelligent and open-minded, and I always looked forward to spending time with them.
[/B]
Are they open minded about people who wear J.Crew clothes and keep their hair neat? Or do they think that they are capitalist whores who are just waiting to start picking on them?
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  #23  
Old 06-14-2003, 12:40 AM
Troy McClure SF Troy McClure SF is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by msmith537
Are they open minded about people who wear J.Crew clothes and keep their hair neat?
Yes.

Quote:
Or do they think that they are capitalist whores who are just waiting to start picking on them?
No.

Who's picking on who here?
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  #24  
Old 06-14-2003, 04:42 AM
DougC DougC is offline
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- - - I think that if you go out of your way to look silly, you shouldn't bitch at being treated like a clown.
-----
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...No one sits around in a three piece suit if they aren't at work....
- Ehhh, , , have you ever heard of the cartoonist Robert Crumb? Now that is one lost puppy. (-warning: very NOT PG-rated material, linking not possible)
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  #25  
Old 06-14-2003, 04:48 AM
Loneraven Loneraven is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by samarm
loneraven: I can totally understand where you are coming from, and I wouldn't presume to stereotype all people who wear black clothes as dysfunctional, and I meant no offense to any person in particular.
No offence taken, mate. You're trying to figure out the stereotype, I understand that.

Quote:
You never know what kind of spiky metal things these goths have on their body.
*pokes samarm*
*pokepokepoke*
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  #26  
Old 06-14-2003, 05:27 AM
mycoman mycoman is offline
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Back to the OP, I was a little surprised by Samarm's experience myself, mostly because the vast majority of goths I know are way too polite to harass folks on the street. Not that I don't know a few assholes, mind you, but they seem to be the exceptions.

I teach science in a large (3000 student) high school in upstate NY, so I get a chance to observe pretty much any cultural sub-group you can imagine. Many of the goths have indeed had trouble adjusting to the problems of growing up, but the group provides them with an accepting environment, and I've seen a lot of troubled teens over the years learning to cope with the support of their fellow goths.

Believe it or not, I like to get them in my classes because they are generally more open-minded than many high-schoolers, and as a rule they don't label groups of people. There are individuals who have inspired their collective dislike, but they don't seem to generalize.

As for the clothes, most of them that I've talked to just like them. If you want to get psychological, I suppose they serve the dual function of attracting like minded people and warning off those who don't understand. Whatever their motivation, they are often among the best dresed kids.

Sorry about your experience, Samarm, but I think if you hung out in my classrooms for a while, you might get a better picture.

mycoman
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  #27  
Old 06-14-2003, 05:35 AM
hyperjes hyperjes is offline
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When I was between the ages of about 15 and 22, I was considered a goth. I guess that's what I called myself too. I wouldn't have considered myself to be particularly anti-social or negative. Most of my friends dressed the same way and were into the same kind of music. We went to "goth clubs", where everyone else dressed and acted pretty much the same way. To a degree, it may have been to draw attention to ourselves. On the other hand, most of us were/are creative types. There's a certain freedom and room for creative expression in the fashion and lifestyle. There are also lots of little "mini-classes" of goth. There's techno-goth, vampire-goth, etc. So there's a niche for whatever you're into, really. Not all "goth" kids wear spikes or makeup.

Whatever was behind it, I had to give it up when it was time for a real job. I still like the music, though. And I like to dress up on weekends sometimes. But I look pretty much like everyone else now.
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  #28  
Old 06-14-2003, 06:55 AM
GUINNESS GUINNESS is offline
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this is a good funny read

http://shanmonster.lilsproutz.com/jesus/proof/index.html
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  #29  
Old 06-14-2003, 06:56 AM
GUINNESS GUINNESS is offline
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..that didnt work..try this


http://shanmonster.lilsproutz.com/je...oof/index.html
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  #30  
Old 06-14-2003, 07:35 AM
finn1911 finn1911 is offline
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I have a rather interesting relationship with a goth couple. They are friends of the fiance from high school. The odd thing about this relationship is that me and the SO are not gothish at all, but we still like to hang out with them. They are very refreshing people actually, they always have great stories to tell and their house is by far the most uniquely decorated place i've ever seen with sculls and swords and little freddy crugar figurines and crap Getting back to the original post however... i wouldn't put it past them to yell something like that just to see the response. Part of being a goth for them is seeing the response they get from old ladies and stuff when they walk into a store. It's a bit of an attention grab i guess.

You too can have goth friends!
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  #31  
Old 06-14-2003, 07:54 AM
Woeg Woeg is offline
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I dress in gothic clothing, but I am not the least bit depressed!



http://www.warehouse23.com/img/sjgames/sjg9116.jpg


Sorry all...couldn't resist.
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  #32  
Old 06-14-2003, 11:34 AM
tomndebb tomndebb is offline
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I'm going to echo some earlier comments:

I have not found goths to be particularly nasty/antisocial as a group. (Goth will frequently--not always--attract the kids who already feel a bit left out, just as the freak and beatnik styles did, before them, but hostility is not a prominent component of their behavior.)

Teens (particularly males) have a bit fewer inhibitions than most people regarding social decorum--particularly when they are in a protective group--so if one encounters a group of hostile male teens, they are liable to behave a bit more offensively than other groups. However, this is clearly true of jocks, frats, or any other collection of young males. It is not a goth trait.

Among the goths I know are sullen, furtive creatures of darkness and bright, witty kids who like the appearance of the style.
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  #33  
Old 06-14-2003, 11:48 AM
XJETGIRLX XJETGIRLX is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by DougC
- - - I think that if you go out of your way to look silly, you shouldn't bitch at being treated like a clown.
Where in this entire post did anyone bitch about treated like a clown? If I'm not mistaken, the point of the OP was to understand what characteristics and traits are attributed to the general sub-culture group known as 'goth'.

I love how people feel the need to get a dig in at what they don't understand.
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  #34  
Old 06-14-2003, 01:04 PM
Misha77 Misha77 is offline
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When I was younger, I stereotyped goths as well. But I stereotyped them in a kinda good way -- I always pictured goths as these sensitive, intellectual people who listened to the Cure and read Rimbaud, and who knew more about art than I ever will. So I always had a crush on goth guys. Then I met a few of them. I realized that some of them were great and some of them were morons so trying to figure out who they are by their style of dress is just pointless.

However, I always thought that there was some measure of contempt from some of the goth community for the people that wore...I don't know...Gap Capris and pink thongs. Am I completely off base here? I thought there was contempt from both sides--one side for dressing differently, one side for dressing the same.
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  #35  
Old 06-14-2003, 01:13 PM
Pixelle Pixelle is offline
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Re: What's the deal with goths, anyway?

Quote:
Originally posted by samarm
So, I'm walking down the street, minding my own. Three goths walking on the other side of the street. One of them shouts at me "I bet you like young boys!", and they all laughed. I was so suprised that I couldn't think of anything witty to retort with....
How about, hey, I bet you like heroin!
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  #36  
Old 06-14-2003, 02:16 PM
FaerieBeth FaerieBeth is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ally424
"can't understand that he likes to wear black, nor accept the fact that he is a wicken(sp)". Basically, a witch ?
It's wiccan...and just for the record, Goth does not equal Wiccan, nor do all Wiccans dress Goth. I tend to veer more toward the hippie 70's fringe, gauze, and ruffles stuff. Of course, the SCA does give me outlet for all my corset wearing needs. I love the 'boobs on a platter' look *g*

FaerieBeth
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  #37  
Old 06-14-2003, 02:21 PM
tomndebb tomndebb is offline
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Quote:
I thought there was contempt from both sides--one side for dressing differently, one side for dressing the same.
You're close, but it really works as: one side for dressing the same and one side for dressing the different same.

It has long been a source of humor that the people who rebel in the name of individualism frequently establish a uniform to notify everyone of their individuality.

As noted elsewhere: you are truly unique, just like everyone else.
(Generic you, not directed toward Misha77.)
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  #38  
Old 06-14-2003, 04:31 PM
lezlers lezlers is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by FaerieBeth
It's wiccan...and just for the record, Goth does not equal Wiccan, nor do all Wiccans dress Goth. I tend to veer more toward the hippie 70's fringe, gauze, and ruffles stuff. Of course, the SCA does give me outlet for all my corset wearing needs. I love the 'boobs on a platter' look *g*

FaerieBeth
I'd just like to second this. I'm wiccan and my standard "uniform" is jeans, t-shirt and thongs. If I were to be "catagorized" at all, I would probably fall more in line with "preppy" than anything else.

Come to think of it, I really only wear all black if I'm going to circle.
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  #39  
Old 06-14-2003, 09:48 PM
Angel of the Lord Angel of the Lord is offline
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I'd like to third what lezlers and FaerieBeth said. I am also a flavor of Wiccan, and I don't dress in all black. In fact, I don't have a discernable style. I guess that some of what I wear could be called "Goth." I like some of the Victorian or earlier style dress. I also sometimes wear a collar. And I love silver jewelry.

Thing is, though, I'm a chatterbox. I'm just about never mean--I can't *bring* myself to be mean. So, yeah, even if I'm dressed up all goth-y, I'm still perky. Not everyone's alike; not even all Goths.
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  #40  
Old 06-14-2003, 10:06 PM
5-HT 5-HT is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by LolaCocaCola
Or maybe it would've gotten yer ass kicked.

I'm not quite sure.
weren't you listening? they were goths, I don't think that would be a problem.

(chill, chill. I kid because I love)
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  #41  
Old 06-14-2003, 10:07 PM
Super Gnat Super Gnat is offline
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All the goths I've ever known were nice. I mean, unless you pissed them off or something, but that's almost everybody.
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  #42  
Old 06-15-2003, 09:03 AM
Dangerosa Dangerosa is offline
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Known both types. Goths who were real jerks. Goths who were perfectly nice people. Goths who were intellegent open minded people. Goths who were dumber than rocks or assumed everyone who wasn't Goth has "sold out" in some fashion. Goths that were cheerful, Goths that could have really used antidepressents.

Depends on the indidividual and the crowd they are hanging with. As well as the moment, since I know people who are perfectly nice sometimes and not so nice others (including myself).
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  #43  
Old 06-15-2003, 09:23 AM
Lissla Lissar Lissla Lissar is offline
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Join Date: Mar 2002
I'm kind of a goth, too. I dress goth-y, I listen to goth music, I go to goth clubs...


Has anyone found me nihilistic and depressed? Didn't think so.

I'm an amateur seamstress and bellydancer with an historical clothing interest. I love really neat clothes. Goth styles tend to be more interesting than, say, Old Navy. I like wearing them, and I like making them.

In general, I've found goths at least as polite as most other teenage subcultures, if not more so. As I've mentioned before, I started going to goth clubs when I found out that wouldn't get really revolting men hitting on me in a very sleazy fashion if I was at one. There's no way could dance at a normal club and not get hit on all the time- not because I'm uber-gorgeous, but because I'm a bellydancer, and after four years of training, it's the way I dance naturally.
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  #44  
Old 06-15-2003, 01:41 PM
msmith537 msmith537 is offline
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Join Date: Jan 2001
Quote:
Originally posted by 5-HT
weren't you listening? they were goths, I don't think that would be a problem.

(chill, chill. I kid because I love) [/B]

Yeah..but they might use their Wiccan powers to turn you into a frog or newt or something. That's what happened to me.
.
.
.
er..I got better.
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  #45  
Old 06-15-2003, 06:12 PM
DougC DougC is offline
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Join Date: Mar 1999
Quote:
Where in this entire post did anyone bitch about treated like a clown? If I'm not mistaken, the point of the OP was to understand what characteristics and traits are attributed to the general sub-culture group known as 'goth'.
- - - Reality check: people generally referred to as "goths" tend to dress a very particular way, in order to offset themselves from everybody else. I think white face paint looks funny, it reminds me of clowns. And I do not consider dressing any differently to be any sort of actual accomplishment. So, goth==clown. Clowns==laughed at, so therefore goths==laughed at. taa-daaaa! Anything that prompts a heterosexual male to wear makeup in public (and any such male who does so) deserves mocking.

Quote:
I love how people feel the need to get a dig in at what they don't understand.
- Perhaps you should read the entire thread again from the begininng. I'm not the only one here with a negative perception of goths....
.......
- Every expression of pop subculture is not valid and precious. Much of it is consigned for the trashbin of history, and some never left. If you saw someone walking down the street, themselves covered in dog shit but perfectly happy, you'd think they were a fool--and rightly so.
~
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  #46  
Old 06-15-2003, 07:48 PM
Flutterby Flutterby is offline
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Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Penumbra
Posts: 6,517
Really Doug? Right now I'm cultivating a relationship with a guy who wears makeup.. and he is very heterosexual.. he looks good in it. As long as they aren't caking it on (which never looks good on anyone) who cares? Not every goth cakes on white base followed by all the black to make themselves look like the Crow. In fact some can put on makeup better then woman who have been doing so for years and should know better!

Heck one of the sweetest guys I know even wears skirts a lot of the time. (Long ankle length ones, it's not like he's running around in mini's!) And he's very hetero as well!
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  #47  
Old 06-15-2003, 09:43 PM
BadBaby BadBaby is offline
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"Anything that prompts a heterosexual male to wear makeup in public (and any such male who does so) deserves mocking."


Why would any man wearing make-up in public deserve mocking? Just because it's not been the norm for our short little time on the planet, doesn't mean it's a reason to be nasty to anyone. Making someone miserable because they're different is a rather brutish, ignorant attitude.

As for goths, I've personally found they tend to be a bit more polite, open-minded, and so on than some groups of kids. It's just the nature of the beast. Sort of how you'd find that jocks tend to be better at sports. There is a good deal of variety within all the groups though. What's tripping me up these days are the kids who look like goths but are not. They are simply kids who've seen the look on tv or in the movies and are taking that for themselves, not bothering with any of the music, poetry, etc. Maybe that's who you ran into.
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  #48  
Old 06-15-2003, 09:56 PM
Misha77 Misha77 is offline
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Join Date: Aug 1999
I think a little eyeliner on a guy often looks good. And I certainly don't think that goths deserve mocking. There are several styles of dress that I don't really "get", but openly mocking a person wearing those styles really accomplishes nothing.
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  #49  
Old 06-15-2003, 11:31 PM
Mockingbird Mockingbird is offline
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Re: Re: Re: Re: What's the deal with goths, anyway?

Quote:
Originally posted by msmith537
No one sits around in a three piece suit if they aren't at work.

Um, my best friend's boyfriend would prove you wrong.

His father did just that: wore a suit all day long. He doesn't ever remember seeing his father wear anything but during the day.
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  #50  
Old 06-15-2003, 11:35 PM
Mockingbird Mockingbird is offline
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Join Date: Mar 1999
Quote:
Originally posted by DougC
- - - Reality check: people generally referred to as "goths" tend to dress a very particular way, in order to offset themselves from everybody else. I think white face paint looks funny, it reminds me of clowns. And I do not consider dressing any differently to be any sort of actual accomplishment. So, goth==clown. Clowns==laughed at, so therefore goths==laughed at. taa-daaaa! Anything that prompts a heterosexual male to wear makeup in public (and any such male who does so) deserves mocking.

~
So, you feel that you are the arbiter of how others should be treated, and your rigid gender identity leads you to abuse others who are more secure than you are.

:wally
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