What's the deal with goths, anyway?

So, I’m walking down the street, minding my own. Three goths walking on the other side of the street. One of them shouts at me “I bet you like young boys!”, and they all laughed. I was so suprised that I couldn’t think of anything witty to retort with. This experience stuck with me, and it’s been bothering me.

Anyway, got me thinking how I’ve never met a goth who was a normal, friendly kind of person. They all think that other people are looking down on them and that they need to prove their lifestyle by being in your face.

It might just be me, but they seem to be mostly kids who are pissed off with life and think that by dressing in black clothes, wearing pale makeup and listening to bleak and depressing music, that they are rebelling against the system. To me they just seem like sad lost souls who would rather drop out than deal with life’s problems.

Maybe I’ve got it all wrong. Maybe I’m prejudiced. What’s the deal with these people, anyway?

Um… I wear black. Have a dog collar, too. With rather nice spiky bits. Am looking into getting hold of some black ‘n’ silver boots. Don’t wear pale makeup, as it doesn’t work on my skin, but that’s by the bye.

IMHO, it’s a style. I don’t know why it’s associated with such an I-hate-the-world mentality, but I don’t think it should be. For me it’s just a style, a certain taste in clothes. I do wish the clothes I wear weren’t associated with a negative stereotype, but you can’t help what you like, and my clothes are just clothes that suit me.

YMMV. I realise I may not be typical of the teenage angst brigade.

The goth’s I’ve known have generally either been of three types:

Neurotic.
Antisocial.
Completely Lacking Fashion Sense.

Some are a mixture of any two or all three of the above. Generally, the last is the most common, with a mixture of the first and last being next most common.

…And they seem to prefer Denny’s at 04:00 in the morning.

Hmmmm…

I think if you had responded with:

“And I’ll bet you are wearin’ the panties yer momma laid out for ya!”
That would’ve startled them.

Or maybe it would’ve gotten yer ass kicked.

I’m not quite sure.

Some are goth because of their accoutrements.

Some are considered goth because of their natural attitude, sans affectiation. One can have an attitude considered goth without being nasty to others, nihilistic, or self-destructive.

[quotes]
samarm
I was so suprised that I couldn’t think of anything witty to retort with.

[/quotes]

You should have said “YO!! MASCARA BOY!!! ‘The Cure’ FUCKING SUCKS!!”

Why does anyone dress in a manner that’s unconventional or wear a hairstyle purely for schock value? For attention. Maybe They can’t get positive attention through normal stuff so they try and get negative attention. Maybe everyone picks on them anyway so this way they can tell themselves it’s because of how they dress, not because their jerks. Who knows?

Or maybe they just happen to find it aesthetically more appealing than a three piece monkey suit? But no, of course anyone who looks different is only doing it because they want to shock you. No one in the world has a unique sense of style, or thinks that stuff like collars, boots, spikes, fishnet tights or renaissance dresses actually looks good, it’s just to get attention.

Christ. :rolleyes:

loneraven: I can totally understand where you are coming from, and I wouldn’t presume to stereotype all people who wear black clothes as dysfunctional, and I meant no offense to any person in particular.

Of course everybody has a certain style. However, the goth style seems to have become a whole stream of fashion of its own. There are too many people who dress like this for it to be coincidence.

I guess being a goth gives you a sense of belonging to a kind of lifestyle club. You tend to hang out with other like minded people, listen to the same kind of music etc.

Unfortunately, goth lifestyle often presents the image of anti-social, intrevert self-inflicted depressives. Or maybe it’s just a phase some kids have to go through… OK I’ll stop now as I’ve started rambling!

btw, in hindsight it was probably best that I didn’t reply to the insult shouted at me in the street. You never know what kind of spiky metal things these goths have on their body. :slight_smile:

samarm I think perhaps you’re just painting goths with too broad a brush, and labelling every strangely-clad, dark young figure you meet as such. There are a thousand shades of individuality and creativity, and style that may look goth but aren’t.

Just wanted to post a quick reply to XJETXGIRLX: I think you may be right. I admit I’m pretty “square”, so I can understand how that may be possible.

No one sits around in a three piece suit if they aren’t at work.

People’s clothing is an expression of how they want the world to perceive them. When I wear my blue Brooks Brothers suit and a power tie, I am trying to be percieved as important. When I wear an untucked Armani shirt and jeans with messed up hair, I am expressing myself as a hip, fun guy looking to party. When I wear cargo shorts, a ratty thermal long sleve T under an old T-shirt, I am expressing that I am so cool, I don’t have to hide behind fancy clothes - or I just threw on the first thing I found.

Wearing 5 earings in your face, black spikey hair, fishnets and black on black generally is a statement of something more than “The Crow” is my favorite movie.

My group of friends are average 18-early 20 year olds, and for the first time one of my good buddies brought a goth guy to my party last weekend. It was a little intimidating because I didn’t think he would fit in very well with us. I had a talk with him and turns out he’s very depressed, and grew up in a Catholic household with very narrowminded parents, who “can’t understand that he likes to wear black, nor accept the fact that he is a wicken(sp)”. Basically, a witch ? Anyway, I haven’t really had much experience with goth-like people, but from the few experiences I have had, they have all had rough childhoods and “they dress how they are feeling inside”. That’s about it. What’s funny to me is, or odd rather, is that I find most of these people who dress goth-like, do so because they want to be different , too. But the fact is, EVERYONE dresses to express themselves creatively, and such, so in actuality, by attempting to dress “differently”, you are actually following a crowd. Everyone fits into some sort of crowd, no matter how you choose to see it.

Actually, there are several goths right here at the SDMB who are pretty freaking cool.

IANAG, but I do LOVE the Victorian/Medieval Goth look. Crushed velvet, black lace, corsets, fishnet stockings and lush dark jewel tones. The Romantic Goth look.

Cor, what a lot of prejudice in one small thread.
Seems a lot of you guys should try dressing up more and living on the wild side so to speak. If you can’t manage that, then next time you meet someone whose clothes confuse you, say something like ‘Those boots are really cool.’ if you start positive you’ll soon find most ‘wierdos’ are just like you really. As XJETGIRLX said there are many people who might look Goth to you who simply aren’t. It is getting to the stage that anyone who is Goth tends not to say they are Goth for fear of being confused with Marilyn Mansun fans or whatever.
What makes a “True Goth” is as difficult a question as what makes a “True Scotsman”. But here is my attempt: A true Goth would be far less likely to be rude to someone else than a Frat boy would. A “True Goth” may have an interest in ‘Gothic horror’ maybe an interest in the more decorative clothing styles of the nineteenth century, a liking for ‘artsy’ music, be influenced by the lifestyles and works of the romantic poets like Byron and Yeates (sp?), follow the music of people with similar interests.

Ummm…I live in a small Southern almost-no-goths city, & the local fratboys scream abuse at people when they drive by. And they’re the crewcut/preppy set.

It ain’t the style, it’s the substance, or lack thereof.

Oh no? Tell that to my ex who owned a closet of nothing but expensive italian suits and tuxedos, yet was unemployed for years on end.

Not definitively true. I don’t dress based on how I want to be seen. I dress for comfort, and how I like to see myself. If you knew anything about personality theory you would understand that not all are as externally focused in their motivations as you appear to be. My motives don’t stem from what external stimulus they will create. I like to wear combat boots because they’re comfortable, and I like the way they support my fragile ankles. I also like that I have the added protection of being able to kick the shit out of someone should the need arise.

I wear a cross because I like the constant reminder of my faith, and I like the symbolism in the form itself.

I wear lots of dark eye make-up because I don’t like the way I look without it. I feel like my eyeliner gives my gaze a certain steely strength I’m not able to create otherwise, and I like the feeling of hiding behind dark lashes when I want to be left alone.

Yes, it says that I’m someone who is comfortable enough with myself to express my inner sense of beauty honestly, openly and without regard for those who would judge me based on something so superficial as appearance alone.

FWIW, the few goths I’ve known were very intelligent and open-minded, and I always looked forward to spending time with them.

For some reason, I’m reminded of Apple’s 1984 commercial.

:dubious:

Maybe they don’t have any problem at all, and folks need to realize that looks don’t necessarily have anything to do with personality. As much as I hate to do so, I’ll recommend to you Bowling for Columbine, in which Marilyn Manson comes off far more intelligent than most people who spout their opinions in front of a camera.

Uhm. I’m what a lot of people would call a “goth,” and I’m a pretty damn cheerful, perky person. I don’t revel in death, but I can appreciate the darker side of things. I think one can do that without being goth.

I like the style of clothing, some of the music, the whole subculture itself…sure, some goths annoy me, just like some hippies annoy me, some emo kids annoy me, etc.

I don’t really have any piercings except in my ears, I don’t wear the makeup often during the summer, and most of my clothes are nearly-formal. People often ask me why I’m so dressed up.

I just don’t like the stupid stereotypes about goths. I don’t assume everyone with bleached-blond hair wearing Abercrombie & Fitch is a capitalistic whore who listens to stupid music, has stupid ideas, and is probably a waste of oxygen.