Who the Hell does business this way?!

[Avalonian]

So, because of the tough economy and a rough year in general, my wife's been out of work for some time and I took a smallish pay cut several months ago. This meant that our ability to pay bills has been steadily declining. Most of our debtors have been quite understanding about it, and to their credit (heh), have worked with us.

Most of them, save a very notable one: the holder of our mortgage loan.

See, when you get behind in your payments, this particular company will refuse to accept money. Bear in mind, this isn't a small outfit. It's a nationally-known creditor which has its interests in a number of fields, including mortgages. I'm surprised they can do business this way.

I talked to them yesterday, and I was amazed at what I was being told. We are skating the thin edge, of this I am well aware. I don't like it any more than they do (less, I should imagine), but as I explained to them, we are getting a pretty large chunk of money before the end of the month, thanks to my wife's summer job, meaning we would be able to pay off much (over half) of what we owe them, with the rest of it to be paid in two to three weeks.

And yet, they tell me, there's a good chance that such a payment would not be accepted. They would most likely decline to accept over two thousand dollars, instead (here's the part I really don't get) letting the account begin foreclosure proceedings while we amass the rest of the money to pay all of what we owe.

WHAT THE FUCK!!!

It's not like I'm coming to them with hat in hand. I'm not trying to cheat them out of money. In fact, I'm finding ways to put off other creditors so that I can accelerate paying them as much as possible, as soon as possible. That doesn't matter, though, as they don't seem to want the money that I'm making available to send to them. They don't want it unless it's every cent I owe them.

It's not even a matter of the mortgage being foreclosed on. I know that this is not going to happen. They're giving me lots of vague threats about it, but nothing definite. We're going to have all the money we need to pay our debt and then some in just over a month, and then everything will be fine. But it's unbelievably frustrating, knowing that we're going to be able to pay this off and being told that our money won't be accepted.

Way to make your customers feel like their money is worth only slightly more than their own slimeball existence, fuckers. And way to run your business, turning down significant amounts of money when it is offered to you.

I can't wait until next month, when this is all over. I can't wait to have a steady, dependable income again, and not have to worry about this shit. And most of all, I can't wait to force those fuckers to take my money, so they can finally quit calling me.

[Creative_Munster]

You'd be doing us all a service if you would name the company you are referring to.

[Zoe]

That is horrid!

Maybe an attorney will come along who can help you out.

In the meantime, you might send a certified letter to the mortgage company stating what transpired when you made an effort to make the payment. Request a signature upon delivery of the letter. You might even send a certified check for what you were trying to pay along with the letter. That might help you in proving that you made an effort to pay before foreclosure started. Keep a copy of the letter, the certified mail receipt, and the signature of acceptance of the letter when the mail was delivered.

What does your contract with them say about late payments and foreclosure?

I am not an attorney.

[buttonjockey308]

This has got GMAC written all over it, IMO. I've dealt with them on a number of issues similar to this one for myself and vicariously through friends, they simply do not care.

[mhendo]

There was a recent expose of a mortgage servicing company that was doing stuff like this in Baltimore. It was going about all sorts of underhand dealings like this, and was foreclosing on people's homes even though they had kept up with their payments.

The company, Fairbanks Capital, is now under intensive investigation from various state and federal agencies for its business practices.

If you want to see the developing story, go here and scroll to the links at the bottom of the page.

[Shade]

They get more interest the longer it takes to pay it off right? That probably explains why they have such a ridiculous policy (if it is a policy)

[ivylass]

Now, that's very bizarre.

Everything I've heard about mortgage companies is that they HATE to foreclose. They don't want the house, they'd rather have the loan.

I would suggest you call the bankruptcy dept of the mortgage company. Tell them your situation, and see if they can work something out. As my dad says, don't talk to the dogs. You need to talk to the eagles...in other words, the lowly customer service rep on the phone doesn't have the authority to bend procedure. Someone higher up does.

[ivylass]

Now, that's very bizarre.

Everything I've heard about mortgage companies is that they HATE to foreclose. They don't want the house, they'd rather have the loan.

I would suggest you call the bankruptcy dept of the mortgage company. Tell them your situation, and see if they can work something out. As my dad says, don't talk to the dogs. You need to talk to the eagles...in other words, the lowly customer service rep on the phone doesn't have the authority to bend procedure. Someone higher up does.

[pezpunk]

Originally posted by ivylass
As my dad says, don't talk to the dogs. You need to talk to the eagles...in other words, the lowly customer service rep on the phone

We <i>lowly</i> customer service reps thank you for reminding us<i>lowly</i> we are.

...Dogs.... Hmph

[pezpunk]

We lowly customer service reps also wish we knew how to properly code and preview.

[Avalonian]

You're right, Creative_Munster... I don't know why I'm hiding it. Screw secrecy. The company is Chase Manhattan Mortgage Corporation. I'm especially amused by the fact that, despite the threatening tone of their representatives, I keep getting offers in the mail for a Chase Platinum Visa, because I'm such a good customer. Make up your mind, people.

mhendo, thanks for the link. I read through most of the entries, and what Chase is doing (to me, anyway) doesn't sound quite as bad as what Fairbanks has been up to. That's some messed-up shit, right there. The fact that I owe Chase back mortgage is not a surprise, and I've noticed no strange fees or anything. The parts of the Fairbanks story that touch on "scare tactics" and kickbacks with Western Union sound remarkably familiar, though... I wouldn't be surprised if the Chase reps engage in similar practices.

ivylass, I was also under the impression that mortgage companies dislike forclosures as well... at least, reputable ones do. Which is why I'm so surprised at this behavior. However, reading about the Fairbanks practice of scare tactics, I suspect there's at least some of that going on here too.

For what it's worth, I did talk to the "mortgage assistance" department as well. They seemed willing to work with me at first, but then informed me that it would take almost two months for them to research my case, and even then there was "no guarantee" that I would be eligible. By then, foreclosure proceedings would likely have started, but even more to the point, we would have already been able to pay everything back by then. They couldn't do anything else, though.

So, no help from that avenue, either... just more run-around.

Zoe, your idea of a Certified letter and/or payment is an excellent one... I just might try that. At least then, I have proof of attempts at payment, even if it is refused. I need to dig out my mortgage contract, but there may be something there as well. Thanks for the suggestions! Attorney or no, they're good ideas.

[alice_in_wonderland]

I second the certified letter and payments. Send 2 cheques - one with the amount you can afford now, and the other with the remainder you will forward at the end of the month - post dated as such. Highlight the date on the second cheque.

Copy everything.

My understanding is that if you are making reasonable attempts to pay your debts (and paying them off in 1 month seems reaonable to me) they are NOT ALOWED to foreclose. I assume if this is wrong, some right minded doper will correct me in a moment.

I do know that the aforementioned scenario does make you look like a better credit risk in the future - that is, you'll be more likely to get future lones if you can prove you tried to pay of this one.

[Taters]

AAARRGGHHH! I had a sick, sick, feeling that the OP was referring to Chase Manhatten. They serviced our mortgage a few years ago and they ARE a hassle. I wish you luck. I agree with the poster about certified check, etc.

Slight hijack...Although Chase is bad, run screaming if Litton ever buys your mortgage. Litton makes everyone look good in comparison. In fact, I recently bought a new house and thought my woes were over. Those FUCKERS still owe me over $3,000. I am still unpacking and trying to find the paperwork to prove it. So, anyway, thought my woes were over and guess who bought this mortgage? Chase......SIGH

[ivylass]

Originally posted by pezpunk
We <i>lowly</i> customer service reps thank you for reminding us<i>lowly</i> we are.

...Dogs.... Hmph

Pez, I meant no offense. If you had quoted me entirely you would have seen that I was not slamming CSRs for being lowly, but merely that the person who answers the phone does not have the authority, in this instance, to waive procedure. Hence the dogs vs. eagles analogy.

Avalonian, I don't think they can foreclose that quickly. I would think that while the mortgage assistance dept is researching, any foreclosure procedure would have to be put on hold.

I would look into that a bit further. If all you need is breathing room to get caught up, let them do their investigating for a couple months.

[Avalonian]

Originally posted by ivylass
Avalonian, I don't think they can foreclose that quickly. I would think that while the mortgage assistance dept is researching, any foreclosure procedure would have to be put on hold.

I would look into that a bit further. If all you need is breathing room to get caught up, let them do their investigating for a couple months.

The guy I talked to was very specific about this much: he definitely said that foreclosure proceedings could be begun while the MA department is researching. Frankly, the more I think about it, the more it felt like they were deliberately trying to discourage me from going that route. It had a very "Well, we can look into it, but it won't do you any good," sort of feeling.

And I forgot to mention this part: When I've talked to other representatives in the past, they've told me that foreclosure never starts until the mortgage is 91 days past due. When they called me the other day, they told me I was 61 days past due and that foreclosure could start "any day." When I tried to pin them down to a more definite time frame, that's all they would say... "any day." Sounds like a script to me, and possibly a bullshit one at that.

*sigh* Taters I'm sorry you've gone through similar things... at least I know we're not the only ones. Better luck with your new house!

[Duke]

Chase Manhattan Mortgage is driving me up the wall, too....and I don't even have a mortgage!!!

Over the past six months I have received at least 20 calls for an "Anthony Munos" (not sure about the spelling--it seems to be pronounced differently each time). Every time it's from Chase Manhattan, or a lawyer involved with Chase, demanding that Mr. Munos pay his mortgage. I have called Chase at least five times telling them that Mr. Munos does not live at my apartment, has not lived there for at least a year....the calls keep coming.

So, when can I start suing them for harrassment? I'll split any compensation claims with you, Avalonian and Taters!

[j.c.]

I think you should check with the state attorney general - this sound like the kind of thing they already know all about.

[sperfur]

I third the certified letter/check suggestion, but don't agree with the post-dated check idea. If you weren't paying it off, I'd also suggest looking into refinancing ASAP (that way, you could get out from under your other debt at the same time) and getting the heck away from these geeks.

Good luck!

[grayhairedmomma]

Obviously I don't know how much is at stake here, but is it possible for you to take the credit card their offering you, make a cash withdrawal, send them a check to get the mortgage out of arrears and then use the money you'll have in amonth to pay off the credit card before a tremendous amount of interest accrues, then cancel the card?

Also, be careful about sending them money if they say they won't accept a lesser amount. A member of my family just went through this and the mortgage company cashed the check but still didn't apply it to the mortgage loan. They sent a refund in the amount of the cashed check a month later. In the meantime, she was out that money and still had to come up with the whole past due amount.

So I would say don't send it unless you can a letter faxed to you outlining a repayment agreement.

[Jadis]

Absolutely do not send a post-dated check to your mortgage company. Do a search in GQ for regulations on banking procedures and their rights on post-dated checks (I apologize, my lunch hour is almost over and I don't have time to link right now)...it boils down to checks being valid for cashing on the day they're presented to the payee regardless of whether you've postdated it. If you send a post-dated check to your mortgage company as a sign of good faith that you intend to pay, the mortgage company can (and probably will) just go ahead and cash it. If you don't have the money to cover it, then you're going to pile up bank fees and have no recourse, because post-dating a check means nothing.

That said, I think that documenting your efforts with certified/registered mail is a very good idea.

[Jaade]

I second the no post dated check opinion.

Post Dated means nothing. Yes, some companies will hold a check for you, but they are NOT required to do so. A check is valid by signature, not by date.

So, they could put the check in the minute they got it, and you couldn't do anything about it.

~J, former Debt and Hot check Collector

[DeskMonkey]

Hell, they don't even have to be written out to the company for them to cash it! I once put the wrong checks into the payment envelopes. One check was for significantly more than the other. The company that accidentally received the larger once went ahead and cashed it even though it was written out to a different company and totally screwed up my checking account (the other check was not enough to cover the other bill). When I called to ask about it, they said all they needed was a signed check and it didn't matter who it was written to. Crazy! I believe that was a Sallie Mae transaction.

[CrazyCatLady]

DeskMonkey, how in the hell could they cash a check made out to someone else? You can't cash a check without it being endorsed by the payee, can you?

Maybe they put it through one of those check by phone electronic transfer thingies? That still sounds rather illegal, though.

[DeskMonkey]

Originally posted by CrazyCatLady
DeskMonkey, how in the hell could they cash a check made out to someone else? You can't cash a check without it being endorsed by the payee, can you?

Maybe they put it through one of those check by phone electronic transfer thingies? That still sounds rather illegal, though.

I was flaberghasted myself. Unfortunately, this was before I was brave enough to demand supervisors and whatnot. But that's what the gal said. That screwed my finances up for a couple of months. I just remembered that it was actually my rent check they got. Luckily, the landlords were my roommates parents, so they let it slide until I could make it up. I even remember thinking maybe I wrote it our to the wrong people, but when I got the cancelled check back, nope, it was written out correctly. My friend's mom had called to let me know she had gotten the wrong check. Seems sketchy, doesn't it? Stupid, lousy Sallie Mae.

[L. G. Butts, Ph.D.]

Hijack...

Originally posted by CrazyCatLady
DeskMonkey, how in the hell could they cash a check made out to someone else? You can't cash a check without it being endorsed by the payee, can you?

Several years ago in Denver there was a group of people that were commandeering checks from their place of employment (a department store billing office) and using them to pay their bills. They would take the check that Ms. Jane Doe sent in to pay the monthly layaway bill for a new plasma TV (or whatever) and send it in to the electric company (or whatever), which accepted it as payment. This was newsworthy because it was actually difficult to get proof that they were committing a crime. The crooks did not change the check in any way, they just enclosed the check with the bill the company had sent them and mailed it in. In fact, I think they were paying their friends debts in this manner (and receiving cash), which made it even harder to trace. The reporter said this was becoming a pretty common scam and to try to avoid using checks for this reason.

Hmmm, I think I'll see if I can track down this story as the details I am giving are pretty fuzzy...

[alice_in_wonderland]

Originally posted by Jadis
it boils down to checks being valid for cashing on the day they're presented to the payee regardless of whether you've postdated it.

This, of course, is true.

I have the sort of relationship with my bank where if I post dated something they would either hold it for me until the appropriate date, or bounce it back to the company without charging me any fees.

I have a really good relationship with my personal banker - obviously this is not the case for everyone.

However, when you send the 2nd cheque, make sure to copy it and cetifiy it and all those things as well.

[DAVEW0071]

I'm sorry to read about your troubles. I hope things go smoothly when you try to rectify everything. I second those who urged you to keep trying to speak to the highest-up person you can. They are the ones who are willing and able to make such decisions on policy.

My own experience with Chase Mortgage has been good, FWIW. They worked well with us and hard for us from day one, and when we had difficulty with a lapsed payment a while back, everyone I spoke with or worked with there was helpful, informative, and reassuring. Sorry your experience (and apparently others, from reading this thread) has not been so positive.

Good luck with resolving this, the sooner the better.

[MizQuirk]

Would it be possible for you to go to this establishment, check in hand, and speak to the highest authority possible? I haven't had the kind of experience you're having, thank God, but I find I have much better luck in person than by phone about anything I need done at my bank. And being dressed up a bit, instead of dressed down, seems to help too!

Best of luck to you.

MizQuirk

[Zenster]

See if there is an "Action Line" at your local television station or newspaper. Find out who runs it and then treaten your mortgage company with a shitload of bad publicity over this incident.

A certified check will require you taking the money out of your hands and placing it at their disposal. I am concerned that this might not be the wisest thing to do. What if they do not accept the payment but managed to hang onto the check for a prolonged period? This could hamstring you economically.

You may wish to place the money in a separate bank account. DO NOT touch these funds for anything short of a major medical emergency. This is known as holding the money in "abeyance." Any good judge in a court of law accepts this as a good faith gesture once arbitration begins.

Seek out arbitration and get advice from an attorney. Check with a legal referral service in your area to find one who specializes in foreclosure proceedings. Self education is your best friend right now. I'll repeat that sending them certified checks may not be the best solution. Keep copies of any and all correspondence that you have with them. Make a log of all phone calls and other contacts. Get the name of every person you talk to or receive correspondence from. Aggressively protect your own interests, they will do no less.

[Mama Tiger]

Good luck. We had a Chase mortgage on a house my MIL lives in; the payments were automatically taken out of a joint credit union account, and one month she put her portion of it in late so the payment bounced. Next thing you know they're threatening us. We got it straightened out, but it was a MAJOR hassle.

We just refinanced that loan a few months ago, with a company that NEVER sells its mortgages. So now both our mortages are held by creditors that will never sell them. I highly recommend going that route if you can; credit unions are often very picky about who they'll give a mortgage to, but once they've got it they are SO MUCH easier to deal with.

I second the recommendation that you at least talk to an attorney BEFORE sending them a partial check. It might well be worth $150 up front to save yourself $2,000 down the road.