Cops, lawyers: what do I do about this ticket?

Factual Questions
1

A week or two ago I was stopped by a New York State Trooper for speeding on an interstate near Corning. (I think I was doing 83 in a 65 zone.) Before the cop left to write the ticket, I asked, “Any chance of a warning?” and he said, “I’ll see what I can do.”

When he came back, he said that he had not charged me with speeding, but with “Failure to use 4-way flashers.” I was nonplussed, but said thanks, and drove off, to speed no more.

On examining the ticket carefully, I am confused. The officer wrote in a date and location for a trial (Friendship, NY), and as I expected, the ticket provides instructions for pleading guilty or not guilty by mail.

The form says that if I plead guilty I can be fined. But there is no indication of what the fine is for this offense.

So what do I do? I’m assuming the officer changed the charge so as to make it a non-moving offense, which wouldn’t affect my insurance. That was nice of him. But I’m a little wary about pleading guilty to a crime with no indication of what sort of fine I may be hit with.

I can plead not guilty, which is, of course, literally true. In which case, the form says I can request a supporting deposition. But then a trial will be scheduled. Obviously, I have no intent of driving 300 miles from home to contest this ticket. Since the state can bring no evidence to support this charge, the case might be dropped. But can I count on this?

I can, of course, just ignore the whole thing. I’m guessing that since New York is not adjacent to my home state of Maryland, they do not have reciprocity, or if they do, that the trivial nature of the charge means that my driver’s license is unlikely to be held hostage if I do nothing.

At the moment I’m inclined to do nothing, but if anyone here has some authoritative advice (WAGs not needed, thanks), I’d be interested in hearing it. Thanks.

2

call them on the phone and ask what is the fine - then mail ti to them

3

I’m not convinced that you’ve made valid assumptions here.

4

First off what ever you do don’t ignore the cite. Citations are like savings bonds, the longer you keep them, the more they are worth. I have no idea of the New York law, but in California I have seen $35 tickets go to $350 warrants. Also if you are stopped, and a warrant pops up, you will go to jail.
If that stop occurs in a different jurisdiction and the warrant shows up, you might be staying in jail for a weekend until the court opens in NY.

Call the court. They will probably tell you the fine over the phone. If this does not work send them a letter.

Oh yeah when you pay the sucker keep a copy of the receipt with you, at least until you have been stopped one more time. This way if the court screws up and does not credit your ticket, you have proof that you paid said ticket.

5

commasense said:

Under no cicumstances fight this ticket. Cops have a certain amout of time in which to issue you a ticket for your infraction. If the cop who ticketed you finds out that you are going to fight the ticket he gave you to be a nice guy, he is going to ticket you for the original offense, in addition to anything else that he can think up.

You got stopped. The cop gave you a break. Take it, and mail in your fine (whateverit might be).

6

According to the New York State Highway Safety site, you don’t get to find out how much the fine is until you plead guilty.

Heh - I wonder if they look up your tax returns first before determining your fine… :slight_smile:

7

He can do that!? Wow. I’m not trying to get out of it, and am certainly willing to take a break that’s been offered, but I would have thought that he was committed to the charge made on the original ticket. Can cops issue other, different citations after the fact in all states, or does it vary?

mske: Thanks for finding that NY State site for me. It looks like I’m facing between $100 and $200 for the flasher violation, and would have paid between $90 and $300 for the speeding. But I’m going to call the court, as county suggested (and as I had been planning myself) to check that.

So I’m not exactly getting off scot-free, but probably getting a bit of a break. And if it doesn’t count as a moving violation, the insurance savings could be more substantial than the ticket savings.

But it really seems unfair not to know before pleading what the fine will be. All other traffic tickets I’ve ever received (five or six in thirty-two years of driving–I’m not a maniac, folks) have stated the amount of the fine, which helped in the decision about how to proceed.

Another bunch of questions now come to mind. What happens if I go to court on the date specified and plead not guilty? (It’s not going to happen, but what if.) The cop gets up and testifies…what? That he stopped me for speeding and issued a false ticket, because he was being nice? Can I be charged on the spot with the speeding violation? Or would the judge just throw the book at me on the flasher violation for being a jerk and not taking the break the cop was giving me? Is the cop liable in any way for a false citation? I know the judge isn’t going to give the cop a hard time, but isn’t what he did some kind of violation itself? Just curious.

8

That’s the way it is in New York, plead guilty by mail and sweat it out waiting for the outcome.

I was cited for speeding in August of last year (2002). The ticket had to be answered by October 9 with a guilty/not guilty plea. I sent it registered mail on October 8, 2002.
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SEVEN AND A HALF MONTHS LATER…yes, the bastards took 7 1/2 months to send me the judgement.

That’s the way it is in NY

9

Well…

Don’t keep us waiting! How much?

10

commasense asked:

No idea, but it is absolutely the truth in Colorado. If you, for example, ran a red light in front of a cop, but didn’t ticket you for it, and then caught you the next day going 65 in a 45, he could ticket you for both offenses. In addition, he could just stop by your house to ticket you within a certain amount of time.

11

The way the fine structure works, I don’t see how it could be printed on the ticket. I mean sure, the general maximum fine of $300 could be printed on the ticket. But that’s about it. And some traffic infractions have separately specified fines, such as driving while impaired. To be able to pay the ticket without waiting to hear back from the court would mean that least all of those infractions with specified fines would have to be listed on the ticket. Additionally, NYC and Buffalo (and perhaps another city or two) probably have higher penalties (or at least surcharges) than the rest of the state. Everything else about the traffic laws seems to be different in those cities. ( like no right on red)

BTW, I don’t think you’re reading that table correctly. It lists the general maximum fine for the first, second and third conviction within 18 months. After a quick look at the NYS Vehicle and traffic law, it seems that in general, traffic infractions don’t have a minimum fine, The fines for a traffic infraction for which another penalty is not provided are listed as “not more than $X” , while the fines for traffic infractions which have their own penalty (such as driving while impaired ) list a range of “not less than $X and not more than $Y”

12

Here are some for another NY city:
1163 - 1164 Improper turn/signal violations $ 100 maximum
http://www.westseneca.net/traffic.html

13

For all of you sitting up nights wondering what has happened, I sent off the ticket, pleaded guilty, and have been socked with a $130 fine, which I consider rather extravagant for a “non-moving” violation.

However, I have learned a further lesson about the risks of ignoring out-of-state tickets. I went to renew my Maryland driver’s license yesterday, and the clerk looked at my record on the computer and said, “Have you been to Massachusetts?”

Turns out a ticket I got there 10 years ago (and ignored) is holding up my MD license renewal. Unlike the little town of Friendship, NY, which requires payment by money order or certified check, the state of Massachusetts is very efficient. I was able to call them while still at the MVA and learn that I owed $190 (which the MA clerk said was “not bad for a speeding ticket”), and pay it on the spot with a credit card.

The thing is, I have renewed my license at least once since getting that ticket, and this ticket didn’t show up. Back then usually only adjacent states shared info about tickets, so ignoring a MA ticket was “safe.” But thanks to computers and the information age, no more. It’s a national system.

Bah. If you can’t break traffic laws with impunity when you’re 500 miles from home, what’s this country coming to?

I’ve already paid the MA fine, but it occurred to me later: what about the statute of limitations? How long could that ticket have stayed pending? Is there a period after which they couldn’t charge or fine me? When does the statute of limitations apply, and when not?

14

The ticket would have followed you around forever, pretty much. All the statute of limitations does is say that you have to be formally charged with a crime within a certain period of time of its comission, and even that gets put on hold a lot of the time when you voluntarily leave the forum state. When you failed to show up or take care of the ticket, the MA prosecuter issued the complaint way back when (as well as a failure to appear, prolly), and you were formally charged within the period of the staute of limitations. That follows you around indefinitely. Now, let’s say there had been a fundamental mistake on the original complaint, and you challenged it; then there’s no time for the state to refile on you because the SoL has now run, and you would have gotten off. But that’s a pretty long shot, and you’d have to have gotten a lawyer in MA to do it properly, etc. etc.

15

Not to be a wet blanket, but it sounds like you need to stop trying to get out of tickets and try to “obey the speed limit”. I don’t mean 55 in a 55 zone, but at least keeping up with traffic. 83 in a 65 is a bit much. I had many speeding tickets when I was younger due to standing out from the other cars. I still speed, but I speed smarter.

16

IANA Lawyer or Cop but I believe you are mistaken. You have already been charged for the crime (speeding etc) by being issued the ticket. The fact that you have not responded to the ticket can result in an increased fine or warrant for you arrest. These are the penalties not additional charges.

The statue of limitation would be for crimes that you have not yet been charged. The law allows a certiain amount of time based on severity for charges to be brought against you. EX: Murder has no statue of limitations but jay walking may be one year.

AFAIK the fine/warrent will remain outstanding until you are caught. Such as 10 years later when you try to renew your drivers license in another state.

17

Hey, 1) two speeding tickets in 10 years doesn’t exactly make me a mass murderer. How many times have you been stopped since 1993?

and b) in the NY ticket in the OP, the road was wide open, flat, not much traffic, and a lot of the other cars on the road were doing around 80. I just happened to be outside a pack when the cop zapped me. I’m not some hot dogging speed demon.

But I do keep to within 10 miles of the limit pretty much all the time these days.

Thanks pravnik and NYR407 for clarifying the legal issues. I hadn’t realized the SoL applied to the time before charging someone with a crime.

18

Actually I haven’t had a ticket since 1989, although I probably jinxed myself and had better be careful on the way home. I saw a report on ABC? CNN? where they hid cameras in spouses cars and secretly taped them driving. They later got their consent and reactions. It seems almost anyone would lose their license within 3 days if a cop saw all of their infractions. I just try to blend in as much as possible and never slam on my breaks when I see them (I downshift).

19

what are 4-way flashers?

20

Hazard lights. Flashers. I think if you were sitting on the side of the road in a hazardous location and didn’t have your flashers on, they could cite you for being a danger to other vehicles.

I expected this would be a much less expensive “crime.” My hope now is that it is classified as a non-moving violation, hence no effect on my insurance.