Anybody remember OBL and Hussein?

[Aldebaran]

As we all know, thousands of people are already killed because the USA "wanted" them.

So how come that they seem to have vanished so quickly from the US spectrum of interest now that the invasion and occupation is done?

My guess is that the average US'er has already forgotten what these wars were so called all about. This including all the rest that they were told about it.
I mean: in a country where so many still seems to believe that Iraq has attacked the USA first (= that Iraq was behind 9/11), what can one expect of the public opinion about such a tiny little detail like OBL, Hussein? WMD, immediate threat.... Orange alert.... mass consumption of duct tape.... visions of biological attacks....

Do you think this will haunt The President during his next election circus or are even his opponents to scared to touch this issue, because if can fall on their own heads if they win the game.


Salaam. A

[spogga]

I'll tell you something pal, You are the most odious person I have ever met on any message board I have been on.
You are ignorant, abusive,arrogant and thoroughly distasteful.

This is the first and last time I ever respond to one of your inflammatory postings but in closing my post I ask one thing of you.

Stick your salaams up your arse.

[Aldebaran]

For the SDMB'ers who have completely forgotten about hussein (and OBL) and are addicted to "cites", I have a treat....

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exer...858444EA8E.htm


Enjoy.
No thanks needed.


Salaam. A

[Quartz]

We haven't forgotten about them. We will get them. It's like finding a needle in a haystack, but we only need one opportunity.

[monty2_2001]

He sounds like a mooselimb.. With an islamic agenda, to me..

Lame.

[gobear]

They're on the back burner. We're only 12 months from a Presidential election.

Everything else can screw off.

[John Mace]

Aldebaran:

You forgot to mention the common belief in much of the Arab and Moslem world that Israel was behind the 9/11 attack. Oh, yeah, that fact is counter to the agenda you are pushing on this board.

At any rate, igorance of certain facts is hardly an American monopoly. Bush would have a better chance of being elected if either of those two evil men were caught, but he'll still have a good chance with it. You'll find that the election will hinge much more on the state of the economy than anything else. And right now the economy is improving extremely well. We'll see in the next quarter or so how the unemployment rate does, and if that goes down significantly then I'm afraid you'll most likely have 4 more years of Bush.

[Daisy Cutter]

Don't worry aldebaran, the American public has definitely not forgotten about osama or saddam. Until we parade their dead, mutilated bodies (uday & kusay anybody ?) on television for the whole world to see, there is hardly any news to report about these two characters.

[Dob]

I thought Alde had agreed to just start every thread with "I hate America, let me tell you the ways..."

At least this time he did ask a questions, albeit one framed with sarcasm and thinly veiled hatred of Americans. So to answer the "question", no they have not been forgotten, but we have alot a ground to search and without a popluar VOCAL support of the indeginous people of the country I doubt we will find them anytime soon.

[Space Vampire]

I'm always fascinated, Aldebaran, with your amazing ability to know exactly what "US'ers" (a term which you claim is not meant as an affront but clearly IS since you insist on continuing with it despite being called on it) are thinking. True, I have known people who are something like the "classic American" image you have in your head, but your constant stereotyping is incredibly offensive. I'm sure you don't care though. After all, we're only bloodthirsty, baby-killing "US'ers."

[Aldebaran]

JM,

Really?
There is a "common belief" in the Arab and Muslim world" that
Israel was behind 9/11?

To play your games here a bit while I'm smiling with your Incredible Accurate Insight in the "Arab and Muslim world" which is my home:

Do you have "cites" for that Great Truth you come to share with us?


By the way: Are you sure that you know for 100% certain who exactly was behind it?

I'm not.
But then..... I'm historian and having doubts about everything that doesn't happen under my very eyes- and most certainly the history of or behind recent events - is what I'm trained for.


Salaam. A

[Aldebaran]

SpaceV

If you want to take "US'ers" for something it is not, that can hardly by my problem.
It is yours.

If you want to describe all US'ers as "bloodthirsty baby killers", that is also your problem and not mine.

And if you declare yourself to be some sort of paranormal gifted being who knows what "image" I "have in my head", then I
guess you should seek some professional help to get over it.

Maybe you do that "clear sighting" you say you are able to do for living? If you do, I bet your clients don't come back and regret they waisted their money on your sillyness.


Salaam. A

[Rashak Mani]

Originally posted by qts
We haven't forgotten about them. We will get them. It's like finding a needle in a haystack, but we only need one opportunity.

Hey ! Nice tip for you... look in the other haystack... not Iraq the friendly one: Pakistan. Now if you prefer to look elsewhere... good luck finding anything.


Daisy Cutter Rhetoric:

Don't worry aldebaran, the American public has definitely not forgotten about osama or saddam. Until we parade their dead, mutilated bodies (uday & kusay anybody ?) on television for the whole world to see, there is hardly any news to report about these two characters.

Wow... if this is an example of the civilized West... I just might apply to go to the eastern hemisphere. How about gutting him too in Public display and get the complete medieval spectacle ?

Or did you like seeing dead american rangers dragged thru Mogadischu ? Practically the same thing your proposing...

[Aldebaran]

Rashak,

You should know that for people with the mindset to give themselves names like "Daisy Cutter" and invent a signature to underscore what that means to them, belong to the category that scream "Violation of Geneva Conventions" when one US POW is showed on a TV screen. And jump in the air of joy with every non US soldier or civilian who's mutilated and bloody body is displayed under their eyes.

My wild guess about this: This member is too young of age to become part of the Invading Heros, and thus almost dies from frustration about that.


Salaam. A

[Susma Rio Sep]

Aldebaran, you still around? Good.

You forget to mention Mullah Omar.

Anyone who writes in these boards here, I think, is better than anyone who goes around shooting to lacerate and kill even.

So, Alde, continue to write and do not take up arms against anyone.

And all of us here, just keep to writing and talking, no shooting and stabbing please.

I think Alde has brought up very good points which the world and the U.S. should take up very seriously, if we all want to fight terrorism and achieve world peace.

But governments and politicians are not really after world peace and harmony among mankind, they are after their own selfish wicked irrational ego-interests.

Alde, we need you like we need a good cold shower to bring us to our senses.

In the meantime, tell your fellow Muslims to not take up arms but to do a lot of seeing and thinking, not believing only.

Read Mahathir, he has the answers to the problems of the Muslim world. But be discerning in his expatiations on the world and the solutions to its problems.

Alde, I just love you for making me think about the issues you bring up.

Tell your Muslim brethren, see and think, and they will be ruling the world like the Jews, and maybe doing without wars unlike the Jews.

Susma Rio Sep

[AlahAkbar]

Originally posted by Aldebaran
As we all know, thousands of people are already killed because the USA "wanted" them.

So how come that they seem to have vanished so quickly from the US spectrum of interest now that the invasion and occupation is done?

My guess is that the average US'er has already forgotten what these wars were so called all about. This including all the rest that they were told about it.
I mean: in a country where so many still seems to believe that Iraq has attacked the USA first (= that Iraq was behind 9/11), what can one expect of the public opinion about such a tiny little detail like OBL, Hussein? WMD, immediate threat.... Orange alert.... mass consumption of duct tape.... visions of biological attacks....

Do you think this will haunt The President during his next election circus or are even his opponents to scared to touch this issue, because if can fall on their own heads if they win the game.


Salaam. A

Americans have short memories. They forget the promises made by the infidel Junior Bush.

[Rashak Mani]

Originally posted by Aldebaran
Rashak,

You should know that for people with the mindset to give themselves names like "Daisy Cutter" .... My wild guess about this: This member is too young of age to become part of the Invading Heros, and thus almost dies from frustration about that.

Salaam. A

hehe Aldebaran... seems you took my "tip" on smoothing out a bit your posts... more elegant.

As for Daisy Cutter I understand that he is old/older actually... his problem is not lack of wisdom due to youth. In order to avoid personal attacks I will refrain from speculating on his actual social class and education.

[Daisy Cutter]

Rashak and Aldebaran:

Perhaps your fanatacism is clouding your abilities to think rational thoughts.

If and when saddam/osama are apprehended/killed, do you really believe that nobody will demand evidence of this ?

On this message board, such an idea is obviously considered outrageous by many, but in the real world, what I suggest is most likely exactly what will happen.

So once again, I am on the money. I'm not here to debate somebody's warped view of reality.

Make fun of me for being right, I don't mind. . . . . . .

[AlahAkbar]

I do not take the words from a female seriously. They are but the babble of a child.

[Daisy Cutter]

Perhaps you should ask your god for some more wisdom, because I am not a female, something which I have stated numerous times.

[Rashak Mani]

Women are more balanced and considerate to others....

Daisy, there is a difference about doing something barbaric and bragging about doing something barbaric. (Your case) What were your feelings on seeing those ranger's bodies dragged in Somalia ?

I agree that evidence will be demanded. So you guys better not:

Bomb Saddam - Claiming the DNA matches the gruesome remains won't help
Shoot him up badly - His sons were hardly recognizable. Some arabs even said that soon the US would parade another fat corpse and claim it was Saddam. Denial ? Yep.
Get him alive - What will you charge him with ? There is no credible Iraqi government... the trial would be a PR boost for Saddam. The US would look silly trying to justify the unjustifiable... or fear that Saddam might one day get out again.

[Gaudere]

spogga

Stick your salaams up your arse.

[Moderator Hat ON]

Do NOT tell your fellow posters to stick anything up their "arse" unless you're helpfully instructing them on the use of suppositories.

[Moderator Hat OFF]

[XT]

So, the 'debate' is, has the US (or US'ers...lol) forgotten about SH and ObL?? Whats to debate? Sounds more like an excuse to rant (not that one is needed by Alderbaran I suppose). Would you like to provide a helpful cite Ald, illustrating some kind of point....one that say makes clear that those evil US'ers have indeed forgotten all about SH and ObL? I can tell you with authority that all US'ers (this is really fun) have NOT forgotten about them though...as I'm a US'er and I haven't forgotten. I'm unsure, but I don't think I'm the ONLY one either, though if you want proof, you'll first have to actually provide a cite of your own. If you do, I'll dig around until I find one somewhere...I'm sure someone out there still remembers...

/hijack
On a different note, can someone explain to me why people from the ME (can I call them ME'ers or maybe Muslim'ers?) seem to be fixated on Bush? Also, is there some subtext I'm missing here about him being Bush Jr.? Does it mean something that he's a Jr, or am I misunderstanding? I've seen a lot of references to the fact he's a Jr., and heard it a lot on the BBC in interviews on TV with people from the ME. A few weeks ago on one of the sunday talk shows, the guy (who was from the ME) kept going on and on about "little Bush" and "Bush Jr.", so I was wondering what it means (if anything...sort of like the hitting someone with a shoe definitely means something in that area). Alderbaran also seems to rant about it a lot as well (though he rants a lot, so might not mean anything from just him). Anyway, if anyone knows, I'd be obliged if you could spell it out for me.
/hijack

Normally I'd feel bad about doing a hijack, but in this case...there is no debate here, just a rant.

-XT

[spogga]

Originally posted by Gaudere
spogga


[Moderator Hat ON]

Do NOT tell your fellow posters to stick anything up their "arse" unless you're helpfully instructing them on the use of suppositories.

[Moderator Hat OFF]

Apologies to you GAUDERE, but most certainly not to the OP

[hajario]

Originally posted by Aldebaran
JM,

Really?
There is a "common belief" in the Arab and Muslim world" that
Israel was behind 9/11?

To play your games here a bit while I'm smiling with your Incredible Accurate Insight in the "Arab and Muslim world" which is my home:

Do you have "cites" for that Great Truth you come to share with us?


By the way: Are you sure that you know for 100% certain who exactly was behind it?

I'm not.
But then..... I'm historian and having doubts about everything that doesn't happen under my very eyes- and most certainly the history of or behind recent events - is what I'm trained for.

Aldebaran, I am honestly curious. Who do you think was behind those attacks? Perhaps no one knows for sure but what is your opinion?

Haj

[Zoe]

Since you are a history teacher, Aldebaran, I am surprised that you are not better informed about the devisiveness within the US. There is no "average American." You should be able to tell that by reading the political posts from Americans here.

The nature of politics, at least in our country, is such that the opposing party in an election never lets the citizens forget the shortcomings of the incumbent President. (Yes, Democratic candidates are already speaking out against the war.)

So how come that they seem to have vanished so quickly from the US spectrum of interest now that the invasion and occupation is done?

Uh, excuse me, but I don't think that the occupation is over yet. Nor have the people lost interest.

The White House tries to direct attention away from their failure to capture bin Laden and Saddam. It is a great embarrassment, I would think.

Pro-war Bush supporters have been faced with the reality that there was no imminent danger from WMD as Bush and Blair said there was. Polls are showing that more and more understand this now.

More Bush supporters understand now that Saddam Hussein was not the one who perpetrated the terrorist activities of 9/11. That they ever had that misconception is the brainchild of the warmongers who surround Bush and advise him -- and of Bush himself.

According to the polls, more Americans realize now that the occupation of Iraq was poorly planned.

And with the revelation of the memo of the Secretary of the Department of Defense (Rumsfeld), we know that even the Pentagon admits that we don't know if this war has created more terrorists than it has stopped.

One of the really good things about the US is that we are fairly evenly divided between two strong and opposing political parties. (There are other smaller parties also.) So the good news and the bad is always out there on page one as soon as it is discovered. We know it before anyone else. But, of course, we don't have to depend of our own media if we choose not to. Those with access to computers can have information from all over the globe. I guess that means everyone at SDMB.

I'm surprised that you don't know more about us than you do. You are obviously intelligent, but apparently misinformed or stubborn in your preconceptions.

Salaam.

[El_Kabong]

So how come that they seem to have vanished so quickly from the US spectrum of interest now that the invasion and occupation is done?

Firstly, the OP, being a regular reader of this board, already knows that at least some Americans are concerned about these issues, since they are regularly discussed in this very forum.

I would argue that the "average US'er", whatever that is, has by no means forgotten of the existence of Bin Laden or Hussein.
A tape purported to be from bin Laden was a subject of much discussion in the national press, just last week; also widely reported daily are attacks against US forces in Iraq, at least some of which are likely instigated by supporters of Saddam's regime, Hussien himself has been less in the news, it's true, but it seems a bit silly to expect the press to run daily stories with headlines on the lines of: "Saddam remains at large" when everyone knows that already; a bit like the old routine about Franco still being dead. As for the US military's failure so far to capture either of these characters, if the current stasis continues, this undoubtedly will be an important issue of the upcoming presidential campaign (or "circus", as the OP prefers).

My guess is that the average US'er has already forgotten what these wars were so called all about. This including all the rest that they were told about it.

Do you think this will haunt The President during his next election circus or are even his opponents to scared to touch this issue, because if can fall on their own heads if they win the game.

As shown on this site, most of the major Democratic candidates have been highly critical of the war in Iraq, with Kucinich and Dean generally seen as the most antiwar of the group. While one can argue for or against the notion that some of the antiwar sentiment among the Dems may be partisan politics, it seems unlikely that they, as a group, are 'afraid' of raising this issue.

[Space Vampire]

Originally posted by Zoe


More Bush supporters understand now that Saddam Hussein was not the one who perpetrated the terrorist activities of 9/11. That they ever had that misconception is the brainchild of the warmongers who surround Bush and advise him -- and of Bush himself.

I left the US several months before the war started, so I'm not totally up-to-date on what Americans are thinking. This "70%" number I've seen going around is alarming, but I find it a bit hard to believe, the America I know isn't THAT dumb. Does this figure jibe with what people have observed for themselves? And could you tell me concretely what the administration did to foster the notion that Iraq was behind 9/11? I'm not challenging you, I wouldn't know if it's true or not as I'm not taking in that much US-based news.

[Rashak Mani]

Its the so called Red vs Blue America. US. Reds being conservative, usually mid US and southern and generally not in the Coast... Blue being more liberal, urban, educated and usually living on one of the coastal cities.

The problem is that Red America is gaining more weight apparently... and the small center purplish (blue and red) america being swayed by war drums into the Bush camp.

[Alan Owes Bess]

Does anyone seriously believe that Osama bin Laden is still alive? That loser probably joined the choir celestial in December 2001 in the bombing raids around the Tora Bora mountains, along with a few hundred more of what remained of his pathetic ragtag and bobtail army.

The only reason the myth is still being maintained by his followers probably has more to do with controlling what's left of his share of the bin Laden family fortune than anything else.

As for Saddam Hussein, in the unlikely event that he's still alive in Syria, or some other refuge, he has achieved the ultimate in irrelevance which, in the Iraqi political context amounts to death.

Now, about that three foot tall, one-eyed Mullah Omar, there's probably a little bit more work to be done in improving civilisation.

[randy054]

Originally posted by Aldebaran
As we all know, thousands of people are already killed because the USA "wanted" them.

So how come that they seem to have vanished so quickly from the US spectrum of interest now that the invasion and occupation is done?

My guess is that the average US'er has already forgotten what these wars were so called all about. This including all the rest that they were told about it.
I mean: in a country where so many still seems to believe that Iraq has attacked the USA first (= that Iraq was behind 9/11), what can one expect of the public opinion about such a tiny little detail like OBL, Hussein? WMD, immediate threat.... Orange alert.... mass consumption of duct tape.... visions of biological attacks....

Do you think this will haunt The President during his next election circus or are even his opponents to scared to touch this issue, because if can fall on their own heads if they win the game.


Salaam. A

I think many Americans would be surprised to find out what the average muslim in the middle east thinks as well as how they think.

I would not be surprised if Syria or someother nefarious middle eastern country took the WMD's off of Saddam to further discredit the coalition and the USA for that matter.

Prior to this war in Iraq, I never once saw any reports of sermons shouting for the death of Saddam and his henchman and the Baath party, but I saw many reports by state controlled mosques that daily shouted for the death of christians, jews, infidels etc.

Never Saddam though. He may be a dictator but he is our muslim dictator and some of them expressed that they would rather side with a bad muslim than an infidel country.

Why were so many Arab countries aghast when the US was victorious in Iraq? More humuliation? It wasnt about the Saddam being a bad guy or about the Iraqi's but Arab, or Muslim pride.

[randy054]

Originally posted by Aldebaran
Rashak,

You should know that for people with the mindset to give themselves names like "Daisy Cutter" and invent a signature to underscore what that means to them, belong to the category that scream "Violation of Geneva Conventions" when one US POW is showed on a TV screen. And jump in the air of joy with every non US soldier or civilian who's mutilated and bloody body is displayed under their eyes.

My wild guess about this: This member is too young of age to become part of the Invading Heros, and thus almost dies from frustration about that.


Salaam. A

During the Iraq war, Al jazeera showed not only dead Americans but dead Iraqi's as well. From my understanding, showing dead and mutilated bodies on the TV is a common practice in the Arab world as they say "they want to show the ful picture of what goes on"

This is not standard fair on US TV's because of the traumatic effects it could have on children that might see it.

The closest analogy would be, we like to protect our society from such ill effects, the same way Saudi Arabia likes to protect thiers by requiring, woman to be covered head to toe in a Hijab to protect the men from themselves.

[Rashak Mani]

Originally posted by randy054
Never Saddam though. He may be a dictator but he is our muslim dictator and some of them expressed that they would rather side with a bad muslim than an infidel country.

Why were so many Arab countries aghast when the US was victorious in Iraq? More humuliation? It wasnt about the Saddam being a bad guy or about the Iraqi's but Arab, or Muslim pride.

Well you expected what ? Cheers and thanks ? Come on... you bought the Rummy Bull about happy muslims ? If Iraqis seem divided about being liberated, why would other muslims cheer US arrogance and militarism ? Or you think having a heavily armed US occupation force isn't more scary than having a heavily armed Iraqi army ?

Saddam gained "hero" status only because he kept vocally challenging the US... so the problem is the US image. Educated arabs didn't like Saddam naturally... or the US naturally. Also being a dictator in the ME is a "normal" thing.

A real UN coalition including Muslims might have changed this... but we will never know will we ?

[Aldebaran]

Originally posted by Zoe
Since you are a history teacher, Aldebaran, I am surprised that you are not better informed about the devisiveness within the US. There is no "average American." You should be able to tell that by reading the political posts from Americans here.

I'm not a teacher Zoe. I didn't get my diplomes with the aim to become a teacher.
I'm informed about the differences in the US.
When I say "the average" US'er, I mean those who aren't really that interested in what goes on outside their own direct sphere of influence.
And that are many many people inside the US, who only watch their local TV stations and maybe more recently also CNN, Fox news and the likes.
I wasn't specifically aiming at the members of this website although there are some I could have in mind.

The nature of politics, at least in our country, is such that the opposing party in an election never lets the citizens forget the shortcomings of the incumbent President. (Yes, Democratic candidates are already speaking out against the war.)

I know that. And also a majority of the population don't even bother to enlist for voting. And from those who do a large number doesn't even bother to actually vote.
In my opinion this lack of interest in politics is one of the major problmes in the US and in clear contradiction with the outspoken patriotism the US is known for. Not to speak about the widely spread mentality that "the president is right and we must support him".

Uh, excuse me, but I don't think that the occupation is over yet. Nor have the people lost interest.

I have to disagree. I think many people have lost a great deal of their interest. Already during the invasion people got tired of the ongoing reports about it and wanted "something else" on TV.

The White House tries to direct attention away from their failure to capture bin Laden and Saddam. It is a great embarrassment, I would think.

It would be better if it would have been a great embarrasment to the US'ers in general before this invasion started. That would have meant that they actually tried to inform themselves through other channels then what they were served by their government.

At the time I posted on an other US based message board and predicted all what we see happen now in Iraq.
I think you can imagine easily how the reactions on my posts were. It is for people like me beyond belief that an outstanding, long career diplomate like Hans Blix is called " a liar" and "a dog of Hussein".

Pro-war Bush supporters have been faced with the reality that there was no imminent danger from WMD as Bush and Blair said there was. Polls are showing that more and more understand this now.

It is in my opinion about time. Thousands of people have already died.

More Bush supporters understand now that Saddam Hussein was not the one who perpetrated the terrorist activities of 9/11. That they ever had that misconception is the brainchild of the warmongers who surround Bush and advise him -- and of Bush himself.

So you say now yourself that the "average" American is most ready to swallow without further thinking what is fed to him.

According to the polls, more Americans realize now that the occupation of Iraq was poorly planned.

The difference is that outside the US this was already commented on and pointed out on forehand.

And with the revelation of the memo of the Secretary of the Department of Defense (Rumsfeld), we know that even the Pentagon admits that we don't know if this war has created more terrorists than it has stopped.

I have my doubts about the way this memo saw the outside daylight. (And I have my doubts about the sanity of Mr. Rumsfeld, but that is an other issue).

One of the really good things about the US is that we are fairly evenly divided between two strong and opposing political parties. (There are other smaller parties also.) So the good news and the bad is always out there on page one as soon as it is discovered. We know it before anyone else. But, of course, we don't have to depend of our own media if we choose not to. Those with access to computers can have information from all over the globe. I guess that means everyone at SDMB.

In my view the two party system and their financing system is one of the flaws of the US political system. The few little ones are in no position to compete.
This also has a great influence on how those two present themselves - and the other - to the public. There is no influential opposition, coming form other parties, possible to this manipulation.

You dependency on your own media is extremely great, seen the fact that the vast majotiry only knows English.
In addition to that : The other English languaged media aren't representing what the vast majority of the outside world (and read here in my case: Europe and the MENA region) thinks.
Translations of other languaged media are sometimes availabe, but most of the time they are not.

I'm surprised that you don't know more about us than you do. You are obviously intelligent, but apparently misinformed or stubborn in your preconceptions.

The study of the history of the USA was not part of my university curriculum; it was part of my earlier education though.
I have business in the USA and I have friends in the USA. Thus I frequently visited the USA; a bit less the last year due to other responsibilities.
So your perception of me is a bit wrong.


Salaam. A

[Rashak Mani]

Hey guys... you gotta give Aldebaran credit for being "nicer" in his posts... and the one above I thought was pretty balanced and correct.

[Aldebaran]

Rashak,

I'm the most gentle person on this globe and in addition to that I'm always completely innocent.

People on message boards just seem to need some time to discover this truth.


Salaam. A

[Aldebaran]

Originally posted by randy054
During the Iraq war, Al jazeera showed not only dead Americans but dead Iraqi's as well. From my understanding, showing dead and mutilated bodies on the TV is a common practice in the Arab world as they say "they want to show the ful picture of what goes on"

I think it is a common practice of everyone who wants to give people a look at the truth to show the "full picture" of what goes on, and that means: what goes on on both sides in a conflict.

This is not standard fair on US TV's because of the traumatic effects it could have on children that might see it.

But the US children can not be harmed by witnessing on TV or in other media how a US Hero Soldier humilates Iraqi POW's, and the dead bodies of Iraqi soldiers and how mutilated the bodies of the sons of Hussein were?
Yes, I do understand that this is "only the enemy" (question: which enemy??) and thus no harm done.
But the pictures of little children teared to pieces by the same US Hero Soldier's amunition... That is of course damaging the child's mind.

Well, on an other US message board, visited by adults only, the moderators asked me in a mail explicitely not to post what they named "graphic images" of this butchering, because it would "disturb the other posters" to look at them.
Read: It would have the effect of a very icecold shower if they would be confronted with the reality of this invasion.

The closest analogy would be, we like to protect our society from such ill effects, the same way Saudi Arabia likes to protect thiers by requiring, woman to be covered head to toe in a Hijab to protect the men from themselves.

Mmmm.... I must think hard to see your analogy.
Maybe your analogy is the following
In fact women are the strongest gender and pictures of murdered people are a stronger message of the truth of war then the Hollywood-like reports of lightening skies above a city under Glorious US Attack.

Salaam. A

[Rashak Mani]

Well I thought you were a raving muslim too ... too much inflammatory posts....

Remember that Cyberspace means we end up adopting or putting forward different personalities traits and might act different from our "true" selves.

[Mehitabel]

Rest assured that the average American is keenly aware of the hunt for Osama and Saddam, and any hints in the hunt are reported in the international sections of newspapers. I promise I am telling the truth. Please be courteous enough to believe us on the board who are living here.

Thank you.

[Aldebaran]

Rashak,

I can assure you that I'm always my shining self.
Which causes now and then some frownd eyebrow at the top level of my family. They know it as always kind of a risk to let me unguarded confront the world.

As for getting the label "raving Muslim".
Be honest: there isn't much more needed these days then to be a Muslim, no?

Funny that I seldom see people called "raving Hindu or "raving Catholic" or "raving Atheist" or whatever that can "rave" over US based message boards in some opposite position then the average posters.

Salaam. A

[Aldebaran]

Mehitable,

I'm aware of it that the slightest grain of possible "information" about this is extremely quickly reported in some US media.

That doesn't mean the readers are that much interested that they ask themselves:
Why are they still on the loose since we invaded those countries to "get them". And why is there such a silence about them in the public appearences of our president and members of the government.

Because if they did ask themselves that, they would be a bit more vocal about it.


Salaam. A

[Aldebaran]

Originally posted by hajario
Aldebaran, I am honestly curious. Who do you think was behind those attacks? Perhaps no one knows for sure but what is your opinion?

Well, since I didn't do any reaserch on the matter
and since there isn't much research possible yet:

I have no opinion at all and leave every possibility wide open.


Salaam. A

[Rashak Mani]

Originally posted by Aldebaran
Funny that I seldom see people called "raving Hindu or "raving Catholic" or "raving Atheist" or whatever that can "rave" over US based message boards in some opposite position then the average posters.

Salaam. A

You should visit the abortion and "no-god" threads too. Lots of raving of all sorts there.

- A Raving Atheist

[hajario]

Repost...you must have overlooked this:


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Aldebaran
JM,

Really?
There is a "common belief" in the Arab and Muslim world" that
Israel was behind 9/11?

To play your games here a bit while I'm smiling with your Incredible Accurate Insight in the "Arab and Muslim world" which is my home:

Do you have "cites" for that Great Truth you come to share with us?


By the way: Are you sure that you know for 100% certain who exactly was behind it?

I'm not.
But then..... I'm historian and having doubts about everything that doesn't happen under my very eyes- and most certainly the history of or behind recent events - is what I'm trained for.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Aldebaran, I am honestly curious. Who do you think was behind those attacks? Perhaps no one knows for sure but what is your opinion?

Haj

[Aldebaran]

Thank you for the invitation.

I'll consider the "no God" threads, since that is interesting.
But I stay out of the abortion discussions because that is something I can't approach without getting .... lets' call it "involved".

Salaam. A

[Aldebaran]

Hajario,

I think we posted at the same moment.

Since there is no independent research possible where we can have all existing sources and information at our disposal, no real academic research on this can be done.
Of course there are people interested and busy with gathering the pieces of the puzzle. But that doesn't mean they are able to find out the truth or leads to the truth behind it. Not yet. And most likely - as always - not for a certain period of time.



Salaam. A

[Rashak Mani]

The fact that many muslims beleive that the WTC 9/11 attack was a Jewish conspiracy thou wrong... does indicate that the Arabs view Israel as the enemy and are willing to see the US as misguided ... not the enemy. YMMV.

[spogga]

Originally posted by Aldebaran
Rashak,

I'm the most gentle person on this globe and in addition to that I'm always completely innocent.

People on message boards just seem to need some time to discover this truth.


Salaam. A

Yeah, and so bloody modest with it

[Aldebaran]

Spogga,

Of course.
Modesty is a natural part of my innocent self.

Salaam. A

[spogga]

Aldie you muslimite (as good as US'ers isn't it?)
I have been admonished by the Mods for telling you to insert your salaams into your anal orifice so I will refrain from further suggestions along those lines.
I am also aware that I said I would not respond again to any of your posts, I renege on that statement.
Muslimites such as you are the bane of this earth, you are bigoted,filled with a totally irrational hate of a country which has given to the world(including Belgium) a freedom which most people welcome and are glad of.
Not so you and your fellow muslimites (I generalize) you seem to think that yours is the only religion which is acceptable, you are not prepared to allow that other religions may also be just as acceptable.
Your hatred of The United States of America fills me, an Englishman, with disgust and for that matter so do you.
Now I have never met you and by God I hope I never do, my actions would be less than admirable.
To repeat, you are an odious creature, totally obnoxious and thoroughly distasteful. The world would be a far better place without the presence of you and other muslimites who think the way you do, to quote "You have sat here for to long for any good that you may do, in the name of God go!"