Joseph Conrad reference in Ridley Scott's [I]Alien[/I]

[1000monkeys]

The ship in Ridley Scott's sci-fi/horror masterpeice is christened the Nostromo.

I have seen the film many times and read Conrad's masterpeice twice, yet I don't see what Scott (or screenwriters Dan O'Bannon & Ronald Shusett if the credit lies there) are referencing.

I assume anyone who answers this question will be familar with both works, but for clarity's sake, how can the story of a failed every-man hero corrupted by wealth and eventually killed at least partially as a result of it set against the backdrop of a revolution in a mythical (yet based upon Panama) South American country contain artistic or thematic parallels to Alien?

Anyone have any theory what Scott/O'Bannon/Shusett are saying? Or is it a case of, "well, we had to call it something."

[RealityChuck]

Since the movie says absolutely nothing (other than, a monster can have a field day if his opponents are utter morons), the reason for the name is obvious:

Scott/O'Bannon thought it sounded neat. They probably never read Conrad in their lives.

[MovieMogul]

I haven't read the Conrad, but here's one critic's speculation:

When I first saw "Alien" I could see no connection between it and Joseph Conrad's great novel "Nostromo," a philosophical adventure yarn about a corrupted Latin American revolution -- the naming of the ship just seemed like a little literary in-joke. (Nostromo is the name of a revolutionary leader in the novel, not of a vessel.) But nearly a quarter-century later, "Alien" has acquired a classic quality of its own, and seems to offer some of the uncategorizable fatalism and pessimism of the book, even if it's an entirely different kind of story. Decoud, Conrad's authorial figure in "Nostromo," regards the universe as "a succession of incomprehensible images," and during his imprisonment turns suicidal, reflecting that "in our activity alone do we find the sustaining illusion of an independent existence as against the whole scheme of things of which we form a helpless part."

I think that accounts for the dread we still feel at the end of "Alien," when Weaver, memorably clad in that bikini underwear, locks herself (and her irresistible cat, Jonesy) back into that plastic egg for the long ride home. She has survived, but toward what end? And the world she is returning to is the one that betrayed her in the first place.

[1000monkeys]

Well, I don't really want to turn this thread into a debate, I was looking for theories, and I do accept yours.

But, I do think that Alien has something to say about corporate greed and the weapons industry. i would not place its literary worht on par with Conrad by any stretch, however I think it is just a bit more than a re-packaged slasher flic.

[1000monkeys]

ArchiveGuy, thanks.

I had never read any critical review before. That does seem logical, I suppose I was hoping there was some "magic bullet" answer, but I guess it more vague, just a nod to the pessimism on regards to human nature in Nostromo and Conrad's work in general, that is also present in Alien .

Anyone have anything more/different to add?

[DaPearl]

I'm no expert on Conrad (never even read anything by him) but here's what I've put together. From what I hear about the Conrad story, I would say the reference is connected to Ash and the fact that the company sells out and betrays the whole crew, putting them on a sham mission just to get the alien. I think there are more Conrad references in the film, but can't remember them right now. It also has H.P. Lovecraft vibes too.

I think Alien has deeper subtext than most horror movies, which is one of the things which makes it so great. Particularly, I've heard the film described as an allegory for rape which I agree, with all the violent sexual-psychological references: the impregnation; bloody childbirth to what basically looks like a penis with teeth, Ash's white blood in what could be seen as an almost orgasmic death preluded by the magazine thing which Scott in the commentary said was about "as close to sex as a robot gets to".

[Cat Fight]

Originally posted by RealityChuck
Since the movie says absolutely nothing

Yes, well, don't tell URL=http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0415052599/qid=1068229698//ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i2_xgl14/002-6948895-5472069?v=glance&s=books&n=507846]Barbara Creed[/url]

[Cat Fight]

Um, that should be 'Barbara Creed.' As a link. To Amazon.com. And her book on the 'monstrous feminine.' Which goes on at great length about Alien.
That isall.

[1000monkeys]

Thanks, DaPearl.

There's no corporate double-crossing in Nostromo, unless you really want to stretch it with Gould's blow with the winds of power loyalties. So I'm not really sure where Scott/O'Bannon get that from.

Your outline of the rape allegory is extremely interesting. Thank you for that as well, though it has been a year or more since I saw Alien and a quite few years since I last read Nostromo I can't think of any other obvious Conrad references in the film. I fuzzily recall a rape in Nostromo, but I'm not entirely sure.

Anyone else got specific Conrad references from Alien to point out?

or, can remind me of the characters involved in the rape (if there was in fact one) in Nostromo, Nostromo? I remember Nostromo is shot by the father of his lover because he is mistaken for an unwanted suitor, btu I don't recall that it was an attempt to thwart a mistaken rape.

[Lux Interior]

I fuzzily recall a rape in Nostromo, but I'm not entirely sure.

You're probably thinking of Ash's attack on Ripley.

[lissener]

If the Conrad Nostromo was "corrupted by wealth," I think that's parallel enough.

The ship Nostromo is, after all, destroyed as a result of the Company's greed.

[Number]

Originally posted by pfbob
Anyone else got specific Conrad references from Alien to point out?

The shuttle is named Narcissus, a reference to Conrad's book The Nigger of the Narcissus. Continuing the theme, the marines' ship in Aliens is named Sulaco, the town in Nostromo.

I've never attributed any specific meaning to these references. I always thought they helped convey the tone of the film -- slow and ponderous.

[Humble Servant]

How about this? (Caution: I'm makin' it up, so don't place any bar bets.)

The movie has more parallels with Heart of Darkness, another Conrad novel. That novel is about a trading ship, exploring "savage" regions of the Congo, what happens to the English colonists (scruffy explorers/loser treasurehunters/psycho-misfits) when they encounter uncilvilized barbarism (go partly native), and how a guy goes crazy on the ship voyage as a result of his encounter with "alien" (to him) ways of life. Discusses inferior/superior races (forms of life) and attitudes about the same.

The boat in Heart of Darkness either didn't have a name (or else it was mentioned so seldom that I have forgotten it, which is possible). However, "Nostomo" is a really cool name, and is identified only with Conrad which, for me at least, gets me straight back to Heart of Darkness. YMMV.

[Humble Servant]

Yup. "Nostomo." I lent the "r" to the act like a pirate day people.

[CalMeacham]

Before the film came out, they published pre-production sketches in the magazine Cinefantastique. IIRC, the ship in those pre-Giger sketches was called Snark. Naming the ship "Nostromo" seems like a relatively late decision, and probabvly not bound up with the plot at any deep level.

[Humble Servant]

Oh yeah--the protagonist in Heart of Darkness is sent on his boat ride by "the company" to check up on its rogue employee.

[1000monkeys]

thanks everyone. especially:

Number the ah ha! moment when you mentioned the shuttle Narcissus resulted in a literal forehead slap, that never occured to me before.

Cameron choosing to continue this little conceit in Aliens by use of Sulaco and CalMeacham's post about the pre-production sketches lead me to beleive that it was Scott's idea and that Cameron just picked up on it.

I would guess that Scott is the Conrad fan and saw the parallels of pessimism and wealth in the stories as lissener suggests, as oposed to parallels between the stories being planed from the start.

I would tend to disagree about some of the parallels with Heart of Darkness , you point out Humble Servant . I see some of your points, but I tend to disagree, but unless you or anyone else is interested I wont expand on that.

Don't know if you're aware of this (I assume its common knowledge, though perhaps not, but if so forgive me), but Coppola's Apocalypse Now from Milius' original screenplay on up was intended to be a modern updating of Conrad's Heart of Darkness and as such comes much closer to touching on the themes you mentioned (and others) from the original.

I guess, in retrospect, I was wondering if Aliens was intended in the same way Apocalypse Now was, directly and purposefully confessing its influences, though that didn't occur to me at the time. I, personally am concluding that no, it wasn't, that Scott as a fan of Conrad saw some thematic parallels with the script and grafted some references on.

p.s., damn, I just used the word parallels a lot, I need a thesaurus.

[bonzer]

The obvious connection between Scott and Conrad is that the film he'd made immediately before, The Duellists, was based on a Conrad short story. It may be no more than a nod back to it.

[1000monkeys]

crap. your so completely right bonzer , I have long told people that The Duelists is an under-rated classic, and a personal favorite. I knew it was based upon a Conrad short story, but again I never made made the connection.

Perhaps you are rigth, and Scott was doing nothing else but be self-referential. If that's teh case I'm slightly disapointed.

[II Gyan II]

OT but I just finished reading Heart of Darkness.

Amazing prose.

[DrFidelius]

You gotta read Lord Jim. And Typhoon. You can skip An Outcast of the Islands. Really.

(I have no opinion on the Alien link, as I only saw the film once, during its first release.)

[bonzer]

Originally posted by pfbob
I have long told people that The Duelists is an under-rated classic, and a personal favorite.

You may well be right about it being an under-rated classic. It must be nigh on 20 years since I last saw it and I now largely just recall a gorgeously lush style. Having had Conrad become one of my favourite writers in the interim, it's a film I'm very curious about seeing again.

[wolf_meister]

I always thought the ship's name was a little strange ever since I saw "Alien" way back in 1979. Well, I discovered that the word "nostromo" is Italian for boatswain (or bos'n). Since it has long been a "tradition" (think Star Trek) to treat space ships as if they were nautical ships, I thought the name was somewhat appropriate.

[1000monkeys]

DrFidelius, I have read Lord Jim a few times, and Typhoon as well, I would agree with you.

In case there are any potential Conrad fans lurking I would also reccomend The Secret Agent and Victory.

Under Western Eyes is the only Conrad I've started and not been able to get through, I've never attempted Outcast of the Isles .

bonzer , I would definately reccomend checking it out again, you are correct it is very lush, and sweeping. Costumes, set, and art decoration are spectacular (as is usual for Scott).

The critique that many people have (and I admit it is legitimate, but I for one am more than willing to forgive) is Harvey Keitel's Brooklyn wiseguy take on French Napoleanic soldier.

In fact, perhaps not intended, but it actually suggest the cultural universality of macho honor codes, and vengence in the service of ego. Seeing Keitel in this historical peice when we know him best for modern crime, lends peraps a surprisingly diferent depth to the character.

But I have gone way OT on my own thread.

[1000monkeys]

wolf_meister , are you certain on that? I'm not doubting you its interesting and certainly makes sense given the character Nostromo's job in the novel.

It has been a while since I've read it, but I thought I recalled from the introduction of version I read that Nostromo was something of a made-up word by Conrad, influenced by Italian and sort of meanign something, but basically invented slang to mean basically, "our man". Thus re-enforcing the everyman aspects of the character.

If so it certainly makes sense for the reasons you mention, in addition to the Conrad reference.

ANy Italian sailors out there who can verify?

[wolf_meister]

pfbob
Just use your friendly online language translator:
http://babelfish.altavista.com/
type in nostromo and select Italian to English and you get "boatswain". Again I think this was applicable for "Alien" because if you remember the ship it was somewhat rundown and dirty. And not to be insulting to any sailors out there, but the bos'ns always get the dirty, filthy jobs in the US Navy (barnacle scraping, deck swabbing, steel brushing the rust spots, etc).

[Banger]

I second pfbob's recommendation of Victory. It's one of Conrad's lesser known works, but I think it's one of his most accessible (most of his more famous works are extremely heavy in pages long description), entertaining, and affecting.

It has been awhile since I've read Nostromo, and a little while since I've seen Alien. As a fan of Conrad's work I'm going to have to check them out again for connections