FUCK their “traditional belief system”! :mad: :mad: :mad:
Heaven smite every seller, every buyer!
The victims are orphans! Helpless & friendless!
ALL FOR A MOTHERFUCKING SUPERSTITION!
I wish that I could resign my membership in the Human race, in protest. But nobody’d notice, they’re all too busy slicing the nuts off orphans, or the equivalent.
It does sound abhorrent to us, and indeed quite possibly is abhorrent to many Africans, but we (or a bunch of nuns) cannot make that judgement. The local tribal and national African leaders must be allowed to judge these people, without pressure from the rest of the world. It is too easy to condemn everything we don’t understand or agree with e.g
Child-brides in India,
Female genital mutilation in some parts of Africa,
cannibalism in some parts of SE Asia
et cetera.
We must not let ourselves fall into the trap of criticising one culture from inside another one.
Ethnocentricity is one of America’s worst qualities. I’m in Achilles’ camp on this one. It sounds reprehensible, indefensible, and cruel to us, but it may be culturally acceptable in Africa to do this. So no, don’t “wall off Africa”, accept it as a major difference between cultures, and move on.
I agree that we need cultural sensitivity, but should that be at the expense of what I’d term basic human rights (the right not to have my gonads forcibly removed). Now there’s a phrase I didn’t think I’d be typing today.
Fucking BULLSHIT, dude. This isn’t slicing up a small piece of foreskin, piercing an earlobe or stretching a lip. It’s mayhem, usually fatal to the victim, motivated by PROFIT and by the search for magic POWER.
Who’s to say this is wrong? WE ARE.
Castrating children or skinning people to make magic charms; or setting brides on fire because you’re dissatisfied with them; is wrong, criminal, an atrocity. The “belief” that leads to that IS just plain FALSE, STUPID, INVALID. Whatever “cultural value” moves people to do this can be extirpated from the face of the Earth and the common heritage of mankind would experience a net gain.
No, the solution is not to wall off Africa. Or Brazil. It’s to move in and educate these “traditional beliefs” into extinction.
Some cultures are intrinsically inimical towards women. Does that mean the rest of the world (according to you guys everyone who isn’t a member of that exact, particular culture) should say, “Too bad girls. Just lie back and accept it.”
The culture of the USA is that child molestation is wrong, but apparently the culture of the RCC is that child molestation is just…unfortunate. Sure, portions of the RCC are enclosed within the borders of the USA, but they’re still their own culture.
Think they should just get a free pass, then?
Embracing and being accepting of other cultures is one thing, this happy-crappy “Oooh…we’d better not judge them, because that’s just not right” shit is absurd.
I’m sure the hapless orphans involved are completely willing and happy participants in this piece of their culture.
I believe that while a certain amount of cultural relativism is a healthy attitude, as Achilles advocates, but I do believe in the concept of basic universal human rights that should be upheld by all the people of the world. I think that NOT being kidnapped to have your organs ripped out of your body is one of those basic rights we should uphold.
That said…
THIS statement is exactly the kind of smug Western know-it-all attitude that Achilles and I agree is offensive and damaging. Westerners have been barging into places and re-educating traditional beliefs out of existence far too often. Let’s not pretend that our imperialist past has been nothing but good for the world.
I think the best answer is to connect with African leaders who are working against these practices and support their thinking and their leadership in this matter.
The reason it sounds reprehensible, indefensible, and cruel to us is because it FUCKING is!!!
Imagine the pain and horror of having some thugs come up to you, restrain you, cut off certain parts of your body without your consent, without compensation, without anesthesia, and then leave you to recover as best you can.
Culturally acceptible my big fat hairy ass. Ignorance is clearly winning if this is what this board is coming to.
-I feel strongly about America invading and intruding into other people’s cultures and changing their “evil” and backwards ways. It’s happened way too often at the expense of another culture. Or even friendly nuns from a western Eurpoean culture.
-You’re all still being way too ethnocentric, whether or not you see it.
-I believe that African leaders have established just such a panel to deal with such cultural oddities. You may want to check the charter of the AU.
I don’t have a dog in this either way, so say what you will about me. It’s unfortunate that it happens, but I’m not about to get all wrapped around the axle by something happening in a far away country that’s been happening for hundreds of years.
I am fucking sick of fucking politically correct wankers claiming we should try to “preserve” foreign cultures and not “interfere”.
Get a clue: do you think that Afghani women enjoyed the murderous misogyny of the Taleban? Do you think we should try to preserve that?
Do you think 11 year old girls enjoy being forced to marry men old enough their grandfathers?
Do you think babies in India enjoy being blinded at birth to make them better beggars?
Just because something is a “tradition” and a “culture” does NOT make it right. Slavery is a tradition in many parts of the world - who wants to jump up and down to protect traditional landlords’ rights to own serfs?
Developed countries have a moral duty to help protect the oppressed in their own and in other cultures. It’s about empowering the disempowered so they at least have some sovereignty over their own lives, labour, and bodies.
You remind me of the various Eurotrash pricks that come to this Board, condemn American culture because it doesn’t suit your precious selves (everybody’s got a right to their own culture, except us), & then stand up to defend the indefensible.
Like now, for instance.
HEY! Here’s an idea! Go cut off your own nutsack, & mail it to Africa as a symbol of your spiritual unity, or cosmic awareness, or whatever dumbfuck reason you can come up with.
Are you a decendent of Neville Chamberlain? He was quite talented at ignoring total disasters & moral outrages, too.
I like to think that i maintain a healthy level of cultural relativism, but cases like this, especially ones in which the victims in no way give consent to the procedure being formed, cross the boundaries of behaviour that i’m willing to condone for the sake of cultural acceptance. Female genital mutilation, the depravities of the Taliban (and similar regimes), and the killing of female children in China, among other things, are all included in my list of no-nos.
The problem of what to actually do about things like this is a more difficult one. There’s always the possibility, i guess, of bombing the shit out of them in the name of “national security” and an “imminent threat.” But, of course, when countries do things like that, i also feel compelled to point out the barbarism and selfishness of those practices, too.
So you freely admit that telling foreign peoples how to behave is America’s “culture”. How long do you think it will be before there’s another terrorist attack - like bombing of WTC, or the invasion of Iraq ?
Each of these episodes illustrates the ulimate position attained when one culture refuses to acknowledge the righful place of other cultures.
And for the record - I do no think that it is inherent in American culture to tell others what to do - that is why I think this behaviour should be condemned by all.
Finally - “French-kiss the electric socket” ?? This is the pit and that’s all you could come up with.
America is fast attaining the position that it has warranted for decades.
I also think that the civilized coutnries of the world should call on the less-civilized countries that practice the death penalty to cease and desist immediately.
Odd… I thought it was a group of suicidial religious zealots who caused 911. I have a serious suspicion that they were less concerned about America’s “moral duty” (note to self: remember to attend the next Moral Duty chapter meeting) than the perception that *our * sick culture needs reforming. If not, why aren’t the British also being targeted for their role in partitioning the Middle East?
If decent people everywhere - - not just in America - - won’t stand up and protect defenseless children from castration and gential mutilation, for whatever pseudo-culturally relevant reasons, then human rights abuses are going to continue.
