If Jesus ascended into heaven, like all christians believe, then where is his body?
Well, the way I always understood it, he ascended as the total package, not just his soul.
In other words, there wasn’t any body, because it went with him.
There’s some tie-in here with Catholicism’s prohibition on cremation, but I can’t remember exactly what it was.
Um…well, why would it matter one way or the other? We don’t know where his body is (or even, really, if he was a real person, though I suppose there probably was SOMEONE), so it could go either way really. Either Jesus ascended into heaven completely (thus, no body), Jesus was just a man who was executed and the location of the body forgotten (most likely) or there was no ‘Jesus’…it was simple the compilation of several men bound up in various legends. I remember a professor saying that ‘Jesus’ was a classic Greek hero…born of a combination of man and god, his early life is obscure, then, suddenly he comes on the scene out of no where to preform great deeds…and then dies tragically, failing to accomplish his full goals but in a heroic fashion, he is granted immortality and ascendes into heaven with the gods. Sounds pretty familiary to me.
Catholics used to prohibit cremation because they used to believe that you needed your body for judgement day…intact.
-XT
Bc I am Christian, and all of my beliefs depend on this man.
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We don’t know where his body is (or even, really, if he was a real person, though I suppose there probably was SOMEONE), so it could go either way really.
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Wrong. There are Roman writings, dated 2000 yrs ago, that attest to a enthusiastic man named Jesus who preached very controversial moral teachings.
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Either Jesus ascended into heaven completely (thus, no body), Jesus was just a man who was executed and the location of the body forgotten (most likely) or there was no ‘Jesus’…it was simple the compilation of several men bound up in various legends.
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So if Jesus ascended, body and all, into 'heaven, and matter can niether be created nor destroyed, then his body should still exist in some form—somewhere. If this somewhere (heaven) is non-physical, then it has to be either hidden somewhere inside the universe, or somehow outside of it.
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I remember a professor saying that ‘Jesus’ was a classic Greek hero…born of a combination of man and god, his early life is obscure, then, suddenly he comes on the scene out of no where to preform great deeds…and then dies tragically, failing to accomplish his full goals but in a heroic fashion, he is granted immortality and ascendes into heaven with the gods. Sounds pretty familiary to me.
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He didn’t neccessarily ‘fail’. According to the all four accounts in the NT, Jesus rose from the dead, 3 days after his crucifixtion.
How do you quote different sections from the same post?
augusta: Don’t put the “/” in the opening QUOTE tag. For example, your second quote should be coded like this:
[[symbol]Q[/symbol]UOTE]We don’t know where his body is (or even, really, if he was a real person, though I suppose there probably was SOMEONE), so it could go either way really.[/[symbol]Q[/symbol]UOTE]
Wrong. There are Roman writings, dated 2000 yrs ago, that attest to a enthusiastic man named Jesus who preached very controversial moral teachings.
Which would produce this:
Wrong. There are Roman writings, dated 2000 yrs ago, that attest to a enthusiastic man named Jesus who preached very controversial moral teachings.
And, uh, replace [symbol]Q[/symbol] with Q. I’ll let myself out.
If you are a Christian then its easy…just believe. The NT says he ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the father, he will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead and his kingdom will have no end…etc etc. So, his body is in heaven and perpetually seated in judgement. Whats the problem?
Afaik, only Josephus (prolly spelled that wrong) a historian, makes any mention of Jesus…and that some 70 years AFTER his death. If you have a cite for other ‘Roman writings’ that I’m missing, then bring em out next time, instead of just saying ‘wrong’ to me. Afaik, Josephus just called Jesus a rebel btw, nothing about his preaching etc.
Why bring physics into this…you are overly complicating this with the real world IMO. I’m not being snide here either…but why try and work though this thing from logic and reason? Why not stick with faith here? You can’t really reconcile writing from 2000 years ago with modern physics…the folks who came up with thist stuff didn’t have a clue. They were going of faith. So…just have faith that Jesus’s physical body is either in heaven, which physically resides in the universe, or he’s simply an exception because god chose him to be one.
You missed the whole ‘tragic greek hero’ thing, right? 
I know what the NT SAYS btw…I was raised a Catholic.
-XT
ok, thanks man
Issues like this were very important and hotly debated subjects even in early Christianity, so it’s not like there is any clear answer to be had on the subject: if the people who founded the religion couldn’t agree with each other, how are WE to know which concept is correct, having only incomplete records of their debates on the subject? In general, issues like this aren’t particularly relevant to modern belief because modern belief is far more abstract and removed from the sorts of earthy and superstitious concerns that fascinated people in that long ago era.
I’m guessing that He burned up in the atmosphere a few days after the Ascencion. If not, then figuring that He was moving about 20 miles per day and this was approximately 1975 years ago… let’s see… program/accessories/calculator…
1,975 x 365.25 = 721368.75 days x 20 mpd = 14,427,375 miles…
he would be, depending on which way he was heading and presuming that he didn’t take an extended vacation on the moon about 1,890 years ago, then he’d either be approximately 1/3 of the distance from Earth to Mars or just over half of the distance from Earth to Venus.
Then how did God create the universe? If God can create all the matter in the univserse from nothing, then erasing a speck of that matter shouldn’t really be an issue.
The early Christian practice (that was later codified in Catholic law) to avoid (later prohibit) cremation was a direct response to various groups who insisted on cremation as a denial of the resurrection. Everyone pretty well knew that bodies rotted away. (“Ashes to ashes, dust to dust”) Minucius, writing while the Roman persecutions were still sporadically occurring, noted that the creamtion of the body could could not prevent the resurrection (as the persecutors were claiming as they burned the bodies of martyrs). The issue was with groups that deliberately chose cremation as a way to proclaim their unbelief in a general resurrection of the dead at the end of time or who resorted to pagan burial practices that happened to include cremation.
One belief regarding the body of Jesus is that after the Resurrection he returned with a glorified body that is not subject to physical constraints. (Thus, he could appear amid the Twelve, in a locked room, without breaking down the door.) It is not a central point of any belief, but it is one effort to come to terms with what “happened” to the body. In this scenario, when Jesus ascended to Heaven, his glorified body went wherever heaven might be, unconstrained by the physical limitations of the body (or the non-physical nature of Heaven).
augusta, there are a few texts from the late first and early second centuries that refer to believers in “the christ,” but only Josephus has a direct statement about Jesus–and his reference is almost certainly a later gloss by a Christian copyist. This is not a claim that Jesus was not a real person, only a note that the testimony regarding Jesus found outside Christian writings is quite a bit weaker than it is sometimes portrayed.
And, to be fair, the Roman guy says that he is just reporting what the Christians say about Christ.
Be careful with Josephus too: while he almost certainly noted Jesus’ existence, there are plenty of passages attributed to him that are strongly suspected to have been added by later Christian boosters.
Yes, I know this Apos…I didn’t want to overly complicate things by going into that detail. I was just responding to the ‘Roman writings’ thing by saying, afaik anyway, that this is the ONLY source (however contaminated) that is even semi-contemporary with Christ (not sure exactly how long it was between when he wrote and when Christs supposedly died…for some reason the 70 or 120 years sticks in my mind, but I’m most likely wrong here). They OP seemed to be under the impression that there was some vast store of contemporary writings about Christ verifying his existance or something.
-XT
Well, conservation of matter is not the most general physical statement. Maybe on ascension, Christ met up with an anti-Christ and the annihilated each other, becoming high-energy photons that streamed away.
Easy. He didn’t.
Is heaven a “physical place?” When the Bible speaks of the gates being made of “pearl,” was it harvested from oysters? Is the gold actual atoms of Au? What distribution of isotopes?
Obviously. However, the OP clearly has a religious viewpoint of the creation of the universe. As such, it makes no sense to be concerned about a God breaking the laws of physics.
The OP’s beliefs may not be consistent with my own, but they should at least be consistent with each other.
That was kind of what I was getting at. At a guess, the OP realized this and has left the building.
-XT