Here’s some straight dope (not marajuana).
http://www.geneticsreligion.com/geneticfreedom/latest-conversation-starter.htm
I’ll be happy to clarify anything not understood.
OK, that is long and dense, but a summary from what I gathered.
1 part biology 101
1 part philosophy 101
1 part mind altering substances
300 parts obfuscatory babbling
Mix well in a bowl of racism, bake (but only half way).
I am sorry if this seems a bit harsh. Perhaps if you were to summarize and clarify a bit it would help.
i aint reading all that, give me what to debate about in one line.
We seem be getting a bunch of cut-and-pasters recently.
The phrase “Genetic Freedom” is obviously arbitrary and was picked because it’s a simple combination of words to describe the concept.
Brief summary:
Do you believe that the human race should be allowed to freely branch culturally and genetically, or do you believe that it should be encouraged to genetically and culturally homogenize more and more over time via laws and media influence?
If you believe that the human race should be allowed to freely branch, then you support this webpages concept of “Genetic Freedom,” in some form, which also then supports cultural freedom.
See above for the “nearly one liner.”
The human race should be encouraged to genetically and culturally homogenize more and more over time via laws and media influence. In the long run, it is the only path to peace. You got a problem with that, castaway?
Perhaps you can start by telling us what’s wrong with homogenization?
Perhaps also why you presume that culture is tied to genetic “diversity”?
Given freedom as a goal, then laws should be neutral wrt genetics. As for culture, it’s a tricky balance. Countries might be homogeneous during part of their history but become more heterogeneous over time. I’d tend to have pretty much the same response to laws wrt culture as I have for genetics. Let people be unless you have an overwhelmingly reason not to.
Education is a pathway to peace. Some of the most successful dictatorships in history had relatively homogenized populations. Wars are often ideologically or religiously based rather than genetically based.
I doubt the argument that homogenization is a pathway to peace would hold up against scrutiny.
Education is the pathway to peace and that’s what this forum says it’s about (fighting ignorace = education). Personally, I believe we can have diversity and peace at the same time. But I’m very intelligent and creative and perhaps having human population diversity and peace is too much for some people to understand.
Well, what’s wrong with Genetic Freedom?
From a raw biological point of view it is always healthy to have a diverse population. If a virus kills most people on the planet, but there is this one particular ethnic group that had a special mutation that kicked it’s ass - that is essentially the usefulness of population diversity. But certainly it goes much further beyond that. Just the enjoyment of life and being able to travel and visit all the different peoples and cultures - and naturally different human genetics are part of that enjoyment.
Can you say - boring planet?
Also, it’s just about a fundamental freedom. Genetics naturally branch. That’s just how it works. In order for them not to branch, there must be some powerful force causing this lack of freedom. In this case the force is law and media which, as we all know, is controlled by the elite people of the world. So the real question is then, why do these elite people want us all to homogenize? Simple pyramid power structure seems the logical answer. The bottom of the pyramid are the “workers” and so they can homogenize as much as possible while the top controls them for all time - but we all “think” we’re free, of course. I suppose that’s real trick.
Well, first I believe in evolution and human nature and all that. If there are any Christians here I will likely not be able to communicate with them from this point on.
So, Chimpanzees will produce a different culture than humans right?
I’m quite certain that nobody, at all, will disagree with that.
Dolphins have a differnt culture than humans right?
Again, no disagreement.
So, the reason for those different cultures are genetics. While the difference in culture between humans is less dramatic than the difference between humans and chimpanzees, there will still be natural cultural differences simply because of “how we look” or otherwise are genetically different. If left to develop alone, a peoples genetics will naturally gravitate and feel most comfortable with some culture they are happy with. There are many, many cultures than we can all adapt to, of course - that is because humans have brains and are generally intelligent (most of us).
I suppose I find it odd that people see “We are all the same” as some sort of euphoric concept of peace. We are all different and what’s wrong with that?
That sounds very reasonable and intelligent… seems I think like you in this regard accept, could you define the letters “wrt.” Thanks
Maybe I’m not getting it.
What’s preventing people (in the developed world, at least) from practicing ‘Genetic Freedom’? Provided you infringe on no one elses rights you can go wild and branch, diverge, and converge all you want.
Of course, lets look at that word ‘converge’ up there. To get the gains from genetic diversity eventually you have to take the branching groups of genetic information (populations, I suppose the word is) and fold them back into the main population.
So it’s not really homogenization that’s wrong, is it? This is just a step towards spreading the good genes from all groups into the larger population. Then possibly in the future we branch again.
In truth we branch right now. Most population with distinct differences still tend to breed only among themselves. Even in the midst of homogeneity it’s possible to maintain populations.
Though for myself I’m a jew who married a presbyterian (only a little to the dismay of my mom)(and she’s over it now) so I’m spreading the love already, boyee.
As far as the homogeneity of culture goes that’s a lost war, largely. David Brin wrote almost 15 years ago that ‘there are no non-western peoples anymore’. The dominance of the western consumer culture is almost total. We see some local variations but even those cultures that theoretically are antithetical (say the People’s Republic of China or Cuba) are in it’s grip.
Who’d have guessed that Coca-Cola and Levi’s were more powerful that the MX Missile?
Or, as one of my econ professors once told us…“The Cold War is over…and the Walkman’s won.”
I agree with ** Castaway** here. ( didn’t read the site though). Education and more importantly, understanding is the path to peace, not homogeny per say.
I feel that sometime in the future a split in humanity is inevitable, regardless whether it is right or wrong. We should teach tolerance and understanding to make this as painfree and rewarding as possible.
There are a few ways that humanity will genetically diverge.
One is interstellar colonization. Assuming that no way to go faster than light is ever found, interstellar colonies will grow ever more diverse, with no way for interbreeding to keep speciation from occuring. ( unlike with the diaspora of humanity across the globe, there was enough interbreeding to things relatively homogenous).
Another way is acceptance/rejection of new technologies. It is quite possible that there will be people who refuse to alter their forms when it becomes possible, and those who will embrace this. I for one think our bodies and minds have many many design flaws, and would like to make many many improvements.
Of course there will always those who will enjoy their unimproved slow minds, with their inefficient failing bodies and will try to impose their values on their children and the majority of us. They will eventually be marginallized, but hopefully peace can exist between the two sides.
wrt=with respect to
I suspect this is the latest in the SF storm. The problem you have is that you seem to think that genetic homogeniety is being enforced, it’s not. No one is telling you who you can and cannot fuck (unless you happen to be gay, but that is irrelevant as we are talking reproduction here).
What you are suggesting is that we enforce a ban on “race mixing”, as that is the only way to preserve what you call “diversity”. So, you try to get us to agree that preserving genetic differences is good for whatever reason and then say that the only way to do this is homelands for individual “races”.
If you want to screw people exactly like you and make new people that look just like you, then you have that freedom. If there are enough people who think the same then that genetic line will last distinct from others. No one is stopping you, but no one is stopping me from meeting a nice hot black chick like say Halle Berri (?spelling) (by the way I am white) and making as many babies as I can.
Wow, you folk had better stay away from California, if you pride your rac- er, “genetic diversity” that much. I’m more than happy to be a product of and person who celebrates multiple cultures, along with my multi-cultural and multi-ethnic friends.
If you want to lock yourselves into one genetic strand and breed until you rot, knock yourselves out. Just don’t try to enforce your opinions on me, or, as Thaumaturge infers, on anyone’s kids.
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Well, obviously it’s about land. Your are right, sure. Many people are doing this today etc… my point is that as we formulate laws and propagate media, this concept of peaceful genetic freedom should be discussed rather than suppressed as it seems to be today. It seems the only concept allowable in the media is “we are all the same” which, towards the goal of peace, OK fine, but eventually, once everybody is more peaceful and educated, we need to accept that genetic branching is OK and should be written into our laws as such.
Genetic Freedom, as written in the essay, supports branching AND folding back in… it’s all good. Freedom is the key. No larger governmental body should have the power to enforce homogenization OR segragation. Local people have their communities… naturally.
Well, I’ve kind of answer this above… Laws and media influence should eventually start talking about this more openly. That’s all.
Of course, it’s happening now. It’s the openess of discussing it publicly that is the problem. Literally, discussing this concept is easily equated to racism even though it has nothing to do with the true meaning of that word.
OK.
Well, I’d hardly say that the “culture war” is over… but freedom is what it’s all about. Culture is a lot more than consumerism and actually, while I’m not Christian, Western culture is rooted in Christianity. So it’s really how you define “Western culture.”
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Indeed. However, I have no problem with “Genetic Freedom” right here on planet Earth, to the extent that it can be educated and understood. Also, speciation isn’t specifically required for the simpler type of genetic freedom I’m talking about.
I’m all for genetic enhancement as the technology arrives. Frankly I believe it would already be here if the world weren’t so controlled by the spook religions.
It should be allowed to freely homogenize. What you call “freedom” is slavery, but that is typical of dogmatic totalitarians.
We will branch, no matter what. It is in our nature. Within a homogenized community, branches appear of their own accord.