Political Compass #27: Good parents sometimes have to spank their children.

Great Debates
1

Many political debates here have included references to The Political Compass, which uses a set of 61 questions to assess one’s political orientation in terms of economic left/right and social libertarianism/authoritarianism (rather like the “Libertarian diamond” popular in the US).

And so, every so often I will begin a thread in which the premise for debate is one of the 61 questions. I will give which answer I chose and provide my justification and reasoning. Others are, of course, invited to do the same including those who wish to “question the question”, as it were.

It would also be useful when posting in these threads to give your own “compass reading” in your first post, by convention giving the Economic value first. My own is
SentientMeat: Economic: -5.12, Social: -7.28, and so by the above convention my co-ordinates are (-5.12, -7.28). Please also indicate which option you ticked. I might suggest what I think is the “weighting” given to the various answers in terms of calculating the final orientation, but seeing for yourself what kind of answers are given by those with a certain score might be more useful than second-guessing the test’s scoring system.

Now, I appreciate that there is often dissent regarding whether the assessment the test provides is valid, notably by US conservative posters, either because it is “left-biased” (??) or because some propositions are clearly slanted, ambiguous or self-contradictory. The site itself provides answers to these and other Frequently Asked Questions, and there is also a separate thread: Does The Political Compass give an accurate reading? Read these first and then, if you have an objection to the test in general, please post it there. If your objection is solely to the proposition in hand, post here. If your objection is to other propositions, please wait until I open a thread on them.

The above will be pasted in every new thread in order to introduce it properly, and I’ll try to let each one exhaust itself of useful input before starting the next. Without wanting to “hog the idea”, I would be grateful if others could refrain from starting similar threads. To date, the threads are:
Does The Political Compass give an accurate reading?
Political Compass #1: Globalisation, Humanity and OmniCorp.
#2: My country, right or wrong
#3: Pride in one’s country is foolish.
#4: Superior racial qualities.
#5: My enemy’s enemy is my friend.
#6: Justifying illegal military action.
#7: “Info-tainment” is a worrying trend.
#8: Class division vs. international division. (+ SentientMeat’s economic worldview)
#9: Inflation vs. unemployment.
#10: Corporate respect of the environment.
#11: From each according to his ability, to each according to need.
#12: Sad reflections in branded drinking water.
#13: Land should not be bought and sold.
#14: Many personal fortunes contribute nothing to society.
#15: Protectionism is sometimes necessary in trade.
#16: Shareholder profit is a company’s only responsibility.
#17: The rich are too highly taxed.
#18: Better healthcare for those who can pay for it.
#19: Penalising businesses which mislead the public.
#20: The freer the market, the freer the people.
#21: Abortion should be illegal.
#22: All authority must be questioned.
#23: An eye for an eye.
#24: Taxpayers should not prop up theatres or museums.
#25: Schools shouldn’t make attendance compulsory.
#26: Different kinds of people should keep to their own.

*Proposition #27: * Good parents sometimes have to spank their children, to teach them right from wrong.

SentientMeat (-5.12, -7.28) ticks Disagree.

I have no doubt that good parents do sometimes spank their children, provided that it involves a short sharp shock causing little actual pain rather than a closed fist, facial contact, striking implement or sustained walloping: I believe that a distinction between a “reasonable” spank and outright physical abuse is relatively easy to make and enforce, and I find calls to ban spanking outright a little unnecessary and nannyish.

But this proposition contains the words “have to”, and thus appears to contend that spanking is in some cases essential to being a good parent. Now, I am not a parent and I was spanked (rarely) as a child. However, I know several children who were never spanked but who nevertheless grew up to be responsible and moral citizens, and I know several parents now who don’t, but whose children show every sign of turning out similarly OK. Conversely, children who were spanked evidently do sometimes grow up to commit crimes - spanking is obviously no guaranteed method of teaching right from wrong.

Were these non-spanking parents “bad”, and merely lucky that their kids turned out alright? I would say not. Clearly, whether a child “learns right from wrong” is dependent both on the child and the disciplinary methods of the parents. Can it be said that there are some children who can only learn through spanking? Or might it be true that, for some children, alternative methods of discipline can even succeed in teaching what spanking cannot?

There are still relatively few parents who never spank their child and so these questions are difficult to resolve given the enormous number of other variables. However, I believe that there are feasible alternatives to spanking, and using them in no way makes one any less good a parent.

Some good parents spank their children, and other good parents don’t. I don’t believe they ever have to.

2

Agree

For me, it’s a bit the other way around, some children have to be spanked and a good parent should be able to mete out punishment appropriately. Some children simple respond better to negative re-enforcement better than positive.

3

Disagree. (7.15, -1.5)

I’ve never spanked my children and sure as hell ain’t gonna take it up now, and am actually fairly surprised you’d write “There are still relatively few parents who never spank their child” since it was my impression that relatively few parents spanked their children anymore. Of course this may be a cultural difference, in fact in Denmark it’s against the law (not a law I agree with).

Now if we were talking about spanking other peoples’ children, I might have been moved.

4

Couple of silly things (can’t remember my political compass readings, other than that they were not far from those of Gandhi):

I think it would be useful for contributors to this discussion to indicate whether or not they are parents; dreamy idealism is most often present in those who don’t actually have to do the job.

The word ‘spank’ is an emotive and misleading one, at least to me, it tends to imply repeated and possibly frenzied striking.

5

Any parent in the world probably is more than tempted to spank their kid. Shit, I sure am sometimes. But I never have. It would be soooooooo easy to just slap the wrist or paddle the bottom. Sure, make the little kid fear me. It’s been almost 4 years and lord knows I’ve surely been tempted many a time, but I just think that I should be smart enough (two undergrads and a master, plus I’m published) to handle a 4 year old in the battle of the wits. Dang, but it is a tough battle to win and usually I’m pretty happy with a draw. But I’ve never hit my child

6

Agree- although, I also agree with SentientMeat that spanking is not necessary to be a good parent. But I read the question as simply a pro/anti spanking proposition, and so I agreed.

And the reason I agreed is because of my own experiences as a child. I have an undying respect for my parents and the way that they raised me. And, as I was spanked as a child, I’m inclined to look favorably on the matter. I imagine this subject (perhaps more than most) has alot to do personal experiences.

7

Ah, but, you see… I read that “sometimes” as indicating that this would be the exception rather than the rule; and the “have” as not indicative of an absolute imperative or no-choice scenario so much as of the specific circumstance leading the parent in good faith to the appearance of no option.

This one is one of the tricky ones, because in our hearts we know the risk that even the best nuanced position will be latched on to those who favor the extremes – most of those who reject physical punishment do NOT wish for this to be interpreted as advocating that parents be criminalized and prosecuted for touching their child, and most of those who feel physical discipline is a useful tool do NOT want parents to interpret this as granting a license to beat he holy bejeezus out of the kid at will.

Looking at my test, I had very few "strongly"s on either side, because I can always think of the exceptional situation. And in a “first reaction” type test like this, if all the possible combinations of situations and circumstances don’t come to mind right off the bat, I tend to assume I’m the one having a failure-of-imagination as opposed to having exhausted the choices.

-2.0, -3.28 Agree (! :slight_smile: )

8

I admit to some confusion here; how is taking care of a 4-year-old a battle of the wits? Whaddya do if they just keep saying no, or place themselves into danger?

9

I agree with the proposition. There are some situations, like a toddler putting his fingers into a fan, that some kids will only learn not to do after getting a little swat. Better to associate a little pain with the act than to lose fingers. So one or two hits with the bare hand over a clothed bottom are as far as I would ever go. Once a child starts school, other forms of punishment are much more effective such as grounding from television or going to bed early. I’ve raised five kids and I don’t think I spanked any of them after the age of five, and only rarely before that. Spanking is but one tool in the parental box, not the only tool and not the preferred tool.

10

I oppose spanking on principle, but I discovered when my oldest daughter was a toddler of perhaps three (she’s now almost eighteen and hasn’t spoken to me in months, but that’s a whole nother story) that when she misbehaved I would look at her with eyebrows raised and a hurt expression on my face, and she would burst into tears.

In eighteen years, and two daughters, I’ve never had occasion to punish more harshly than that.

11

My thoughts exactly. I also agree with the statement.

12

Pain is the most obvious teacher the human race has. I suggest anyone who feels otherwise put their hand in an open flame until they learn this lesson. Good parents do sometimes have to spank their children; it is still important that the lesson is given in such a way that what is learned is not simply “Don’t get caught.” I don’t think spanking is necessary all the time, but sometimes it can certainly be quite appropriate.

13

"I don’t think spanking is necessary all the time, but sometimes it can certainly be quite appropriate."
This is a bit ambiguous. You don’t think EVERY WORKING SECOND that spanking is necessary, or you don’t think it’s necessary with all children, or you don’t think a child needs to be spanked every second of its life? IOW, if there’s no one claiming that “spanking is necessary all the time” who are you distinguishing yourself from?

14

Not a parent, but not too terribly removed from childhood. My parents spanked me a small handful of times while I was growing up. Usually some other form of punishment got the point across, but sometimes it didn’t. Getting spanked was so shocking that it generally worked.

I agree with the statement, so long as it’s a bare hand through clothing. Spanking and beating are two very different things.

15

I don’t think that every parent must necessarily find a reason to spank their child at some point in their life; I do not rule out the possibility of not ever spanking a child. But I do think it should be considered as viable response to certain behavior and not ruled out beforehand.

16

What did you select? Being a viable response to certain behavior is different from “having to spank”…if the “certain behavior” is imminent extreme violence, the certain behavior might not ever come up in a given child, and thus the parents would never “have to spank”.

-2,-2, and since I can certainly envisage an upbringing in which a child was never spanked, and yet was still parented well, I selected Strongly disagree, even though there may be extreme situations in which it is warranted. I haven’t thought about that , though: I can wait till I am a parent for that.

17

I selected agree, and would have selected strongly agree but for the idea that only good parents spank, which I don’t think is true. And this is exactly why I answered the way I did: if a child never acted in the ways requiring a spanking of some kind, then obviously they’d never be spanked. I would not give a parent poor marks for a well-behaved child!

18

I’m curious for people who are pro-spanking to define it. Bare hand? Switch? Paddle? Wooden Spoon? Through clothes or bare-assed?

Personally, I’m opposed completely once the kid reaches the age of reason, and before that only not completely opposed if through clothes, bare hand, one swat. More to get the kid’s attention than to inflict physical pain.

Also wonder who (opposing and supporting), were spanked as children. I don’t consider myself to have been abused at all, but also don’t think (of the incidents I remember) that it had the intended result, ever. (Assuming the intended result was for me to straighten up and fly right). If I was angry, it made me more angry, and less in control of my behavior. I think it escalated minor rebellions to huge seethed about injustices, and made me less likely to confine in my parents the next time I was having problems, because now we were in an adversarial situation.

In my case, physical punishment + me as angry, frustrated adult will never be combined, because I’ve seen it get more out of control than it should be and I won’t risk that with a kid. YMMV.

19

oh yeah
Economic Left/Right: -3.25
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.13

Left, and libertarian leaning. And wow, I seem to recall last time I took it I was at about a -4 on the libertarian. 4 more years of GWB and who knows what kind of anarchist I might be (kidding. mostly)

20

As I mentioned before, I agreed with the proposition. I was spanked as a child either with a paddle or by hand, and always through clothes. I was never spanked as a “spur of the moment” thing; what would happen is that I would be sent to my room for awhile and then my dad would come in and have a talk with me. If I was going to be spanked it would happen after the talk- it would be like, here’s what you did, you know that’s unacceptable, and your punishment is that I’m going to spank you.

Now, spanking was a very rare form of punishment- I only remember being spanked 2 or 3 times (although it likely happened a bit more). The most common type of punishment for me was to have to stand in the corner.

So yeah, when I say I’m pro-spanking, that is the kind of situation I’m referring- a rare punishment which is not administered in anger.