Inspired by the thread about “Ask the person who just ended an Affair” thread in IMHO I start this thread to pit all those selfless bastards who decide to have an affair with someone who is married and has children.*
Mad Phlosphr says:
I don’t give a flying fuck how emotionally taxed you were in your life/last marriage. Think before you take a married person out, fall in love and end up doing the horizontal tango.
I don’t fucking care if you were highschool sweethearts and you decided to “have at it again” even it was only a one night stand, no excuses.
Don’t give a fuck if your marriage is dead, don’t do it. Wait to get your jollies off until the divorce papers are final. Is that so hard for an adult to do?
THINK about the children because you will be a part of fucking up their futures!
The Rational Phlosphr says:
It takes two to make this equation work. It’s not the sole responsibility of the seductor to make this happen, there are conscious decisions being made here.
My gripe is when a grown adult makes a wrong decision, and selfishly gets involved with someone who is married with children. It’s wrong.
to the person with the thread in IMHO, you have been respectful and answered all the Q’s people are asking. So I am not pitting you as an individual. This is not directed solely at you. I do consider you quite courageous in posting your thread, though I may not agree with your methodology, I do not wish to single you out…
So what you’ve basically said here is “THINK before doing something STUPID”. So if someone actually bothers to THINK first, then the STUPID isn’t going to happen. It’s a nice theory, but we all know there have always been and will always be people who just don’t THINK.
The long and the short of that Ponder is yes. But of course that does not mean think before, and that makes it ok. My gripe is with the thousands of people who think cheating is - to some degree - not all that bad. I understand the cognitive processes behind, I just get frustrated when people run out of patience or act on impulse with something - IMHO - that is so emotionally charged and can have fallout effecting many including young children.
This gets to the whole “life is black and white” vs. “life is all gray” argument.
Yes, from a “life is gray” standpoint, one can imagine an infinitely nuanced situation where an affair, where torturing detainees, where murder and other inappropriate/immoral/unethical acts are acceptable. And you know what - sometimes they may be, I suppose.
From a “life is black and white” standpoint, there are some lines that can be drawn in one’s mind and crossing them becomes a turning point:
All torture is bad - if given the opportunity, run away.
If I am tempted into an affair, either repair my marriage or end it, then consider the relationship with the person I was tempted with - but not before ending my marriage.
Any murder not done in self-defense is wrong (we can debate the concept of self-defense when a warring party is attacking us, so an individual is not personally threatened, but their country is…)
Yes, there are a variety of situations where we can never know how someone else is feeling, but there are some good, basic truths that should stand up. These key decision points (do I cross that line?) are the things that define us as thinking humans - empathizing one’s way into inappropriate/immoral/unethical behavior doesn’t make the behavior correct.
Even the OP of the “ask the mistress” thread embraces the inherent wrongness of her behavior as I read her posts. She is very respectfully and thoughtfully responding to questions, but not attempting to claim that her behavior is appropriate or moral.
I think a lot of the debate that could crop up regarding this matter would center on the definition of “end”.
For example, I’m not divorced from my husband yet I haven’t been married for over three years now. No, I have not been celibate, and No, I don’t consider myself morally bankrupt because of my situation.
Marriages end in all kinds of ways, and filing a paper in a courthouse really has very little to do with it overall.
Your situation sounds “ended,” IMHO - if you and your husband consider the marriage over, it’s done. Granted there may be legal ramifications to still being married, but that is not the question here…
The issue with the “ask the mistress” thread is that all parties involved did not consider the relationship done. She and her husband might’ve considered their marriage over regardless of legal status, but the wife of her paramour certainly did not seem to consider her marriage over. Hence, line crossed.
Why are kids the breaking point? You should just THINK before you have an affair with a married person. If the marriage is truly open (my wife and I have an arrangement), she won’t mind a phone call to confirm. If the marriage is in truly bad shape, it isn’t too much to expect him (or her) to at least move into their own place. If not (due to finances, whatever) then, once again, a phone call will assure you that, yes, she doesn’t give a damn if he sleeps with someone else.
But, there are sometimes complicating circumstances and not every affair can be painted with the same broad brush.
Eh, I usually place very little blame on the Other Person. Although I personally wouldn’t want to be a part of someone’s infidelity, the responsibility for upholding marriage vows beloings entirely to the two people who made them. Why should we expect strangers to value those vows more than the person who made them?
I agree with you Giraffe; but, damn, I get dirty looks when I said that to some friends of mine. Of course one of the people I told that to had just been ranting about the “other woman” who had supposedly wrecked her relationship. Bullshit, I say. If the partner had not wanted to cheat, then the “other woman” wouldn’t have been successful.
Not sure if you’ve read the thread in question, so a recap. (If you did read it, here’s to any others who haven’t)
She was married, he was married (with kids) and neither of their spouses knew of the long-term affair. (Other than the wife of paramour, but it sounds like she was snookered into thinking it was over after 2 months)
Yes, I read the thread. It sounded to me like faithfool’s relationship with her husband was already over. If that’s not true, then I completely hold her responsible for any damage her infidelity caused in her own marriage. Either way, though, I hold the married man she was dating fully responsible for any damage the affair may have caused his kids. It’s his job to make sure they don’t get hurt.
I fail to see that when a single person has an affair with a married person, that it is generally the single person who is made out to be the homewrecker and the big baddy.
Once you get married, do you somehow not have any responsibility for your own morality?
Is that the way it works?
I’m single and I once went out with a man I didn’t know was married. Once.
As soon as I found out he was married I packed him in. It was a no brainer for me, but how was I at fault?
**He ** was the one who was married He was the one who had a wife and kids He didn’t tell me either of these things
Yet somehow I was the one who had done the bad thing?
No way.
Not a bloody chance.
I beg your pardon.
I see now that there were no single people involved, in this particular case, but once again, I find myself agreeing with Giraffe.
In my (single) mind, surely once you are married, you ought to be responsble for the state of your own marriage?
Personally knowing a thing or two about loyalty and taking lifelong committments, this sort of this appalls me. Granted, I know people are human animals, but a few very close married relatives of mine are currently residing in Splitsville after such episodes.
I simply have to vocally mirror the OP: Have some fucking discipline. Keep your parts in your pants, move out for awhile if it will help, and take an objective look at your marriage/partnership. For the love of Og, a little discretion and communication will go a long damn way.
Tripler
You made a vow, you made a promise. Honor it!
I’m certainly not trying to get into an argument with you on this, so don’t take it as such. The guy she had the affair with has been mentioned by me in not so flattering ways. From the sound of it, he’s pretty charming and saw an easy mark for some cheap thrills. He was able to string her along (as well as his wife) for a year. So beleive me when I agree that he’s responsible. As far as us Dopers know, the affair still hasn’t paid off. (Other than a wanted divorce).
But I’ll reserve laying 100% blame on him. The OP was also there encouraging it. She knew he was married, she knew he had kids, she knew his wife didn’t have the “mistaken” notion of an “open” relationship. There is a part of blame she holds for being so selfish as to not take into account anyones (the kids, at least!) feelings about the consequences. That’s why in the other thread I said I hope it’s some sort of mental illness that can be helped. It may not be an excuse, but it would be a reason for the actions.
Again, we’re getting one side of 4 different stories and I don’t have a psych degree. All I can do is offer opinions (that I’ve developed being a child in this situation) and ask questions.
(on preview)
curly chick, don’t forget there are 2 children involved that both parties knew of. And in her OP she stated she was looking forward to being a step-mom to them. That goes beyond wanting to leave her marriage. She specifically had plans to break up a marriage and steop in to take over.
A-fucking-men!
Side note: in my previous reply, the OP I referred to was the Op of the Pittee, not our esteemed phlosphr. Sorry for the technical difficulties.
duffer’s point is what I intended to make before he said it. Glad for preview. But it does bear repeating. The fault is only 100% the married person’s in a single-to-married-person affair if he/she has successfully hidden the fact that he/she’s married from the single person. Otherwise, I refuse to consider the single person blameless for getting involved with a married person when they are aware of their status. Once you know they’re married, back off.
