I was looking at a site re Australian business etiquette & social graces, and saw this (to me) unusual aspect.
Is it only in the US that the invitee is usually expected to pick up the tab, or is this peculiar to Australia? Is this true for both business and social dinner invitations in Australia or only business? Are interpersonal “dates” between Australian men and women usually “dutch treat” unless explicitly stated otherwise?
I’m confused about whether the quote is supposed to apply to business meals or casual. Casual, yes, absolutely, “Dutch” is assumed.
A buncha guys from the office just having lunch and a beer, Dutch.
If friends are taking someone out for their birthday or a couple out for an anniversary, all except the celebrities pay equal shares.
If a US family were staying with an Oz family, you’d probably shout a dinner once each way, apart from that pay for yourselves.
Business, depends. A sales rep dining his client would be assumed to pay for both.
Our company has an ethics rule that the senior manager pays when there are any members of management present, but as it’s a US co. I’m not sure that’s a valid datapoint for you.
BTW did you really mean the invitee picks up the tab in the US? Or did you mean the invitor?
I think it depends on the circumstances. In my experience, for business lunches and dinners (by which I mean one party entertaining clients, potential clients etc), the organiser will pay the bill. The guests are not expected to contribute. For less formal business affairs (people working on a project together) or just general “office lunches”, everyone would pay a share of the bill.
On social occasions, again it depends. A group of friends having dinner after a movie would almost certainly split the bill. A man romantically wining and dining a woman will pay the bill himself (or, at least, that’s what I do).
In a business context, usually as the inviter I would pick up the bill although this is not set in stone. Sometimes it will be dutch or occasionally a really big customer will get it. Mind you, really big customers have probably received several cases of good red by that stage so it’s about time he reciprocated. Anyway, business contacts will more likely want to go to a titty bar or pub without a meal where it’s generally dutch. I’m not a big drinker or fan of lapdancing so I’d almost prefer to pick up the bill at a restaurant but it’s business and my social preferences wouldn’t otherwise include these guys anyway so I do what I have to.
With friends, it is almost always dutch or the bill gets split equally or someone will remember to get the next one. The concept of dating is a bit foreign in Australia. It’s becoming more common but it’s an American import. If I go out with a girl on one of these newfangled dates, it’s equally likely to be dutch, equal split or either one of us will pay. I can’t imagine a situation anywhere where the invitee would pay. That’s just weird and rude.
So… what did you have instead of American style “dates”? I thought “dating” (ie -ask girl out, and you are assumed to be treating) was pretty much a universal in english speaking countries.
:smack:
Make that I can’t imagine a situation anywhere where the invitee would be expected to pay.
Sometimes they’ll insist and after some weak and flacid objections from me, I’ll let (invariably a) him pay. The vulgar cunts I’ve been spruiking to until recently are plenty rude and weird though. 
What the others said.
In a business context you can assume, as a guest, your money will stay in your pocket. In a social context, you would automatically offer to pay your share. Then it’s up to the host to accept your money or not.
In general, we just blunder through, as I suspect many other countries do. Splitting up the tab hasn’t been a staple of comedy routines for nothing! My advice - carry enough money with you to pay. Offer to pay. Take it from there.
As far as dates go, I’d be generalising a bit, but the idea of a “date” as being a unique entity that is somehow a big deal isn’t as prevalent here as in the States. It’s just another night out. I’m in my mid-thirties, have been in several long term relationships (got married in one of 'em), and a shorter one or two, and I can truthfully say that I’ve never been on a “date” as such (in terms of the “nervous knocking on her door at 7pm and then making stilted restaurant conversation, then worrrying about the asking inside for coffee afterwards” concept of a date). Not to say that I didn’t go out with these women, but that it was more something we both kinda fell into. With this attitude in mind, it’s assumed you’ll each pay your share. Maybe later, if the relationship is looking to get serious, one of you might “shout” (treat) the other a night out. This would be considered a gift, and would be declared beforehand, not left until you call for the check.
Just further to that, in the case of good friends or simply people you’ll be going out with more than once in a blue moon, people will often “shout”. I pay this time, you don’t protest but it’s assumed you will pay next time. This often cements a friendship, partially because it’s tacitly understood that the various meals almost certainly won’t come to the exact same dollar amount, and it show that you’re close enough not to be concerned with calculating totals. This is how I operate with my friends. Over the years, I’m probably hundreds of dollars either in front or behind with some of them, but it’s not given any thought, and we’d never know.
OK. Dating seems like an old fashioned, structured ritual to me. A guy turns up at the girl’s house, presents flowers, takes her to dinner and a movie, pays and everybody understands the endgame is him getting sex and her giving. I remember someone mentioning going on a date when I was living in London and one of the girls present asked, sarcastically, if he was going to take the lucky gal to the prom as well.
Generally, where I’ve lived, if you’re interested, you’ll ask someone if they’d like to meet up at a pub or cafe, go dutch especially if you don’t really know each other and see where it goes from there. It seems less… daty that way. It also makes it easier to ditch it if it turns into a fiasco and isn’t so one-sided or laden with expectation according to how a date is supposed to go. Why would the guy pay though? I’m not getting anymore out of it than she is and so I’d be worried that if sex happened it would be because she felt indebted or impressed by my largesse (rather than my largeness :D).
No dates for me. Ostensibly, catching up with a girl I like is the same as I catching up with a guy in a social situation. “Wanna catch up some time?”, for anybody I like.
Oh shit! Now I sound like a total fucking tightarse.
I love going to dinner with a girl and even picking up the bill. I just have to already know her and feel confident that I can look forward to enjoying the evening and know neither of us will be watching the clock or conspiring to receive an emergency call from home or work.
I don’t want a girl I’m interested in to form an idea of me as some Victorian twat who takes a paternalistic approach to women. I’d be laughed at by the kinds of girls I like if I tried that. It would look pretentious, tryhard or a bit fuddy-duddy if it were part of an initial impression.
In Australia, there’s always one of your friends who would never foot the bill. You know, the one guy you know who’s really scabby? And if you don’t, it’s you.
After due consultation with the Macquarie Dictionary I find the phrase:
Which is why you should always be wary about shouting guys who are nicknamed Whisper.
Also known as having short arms and deep pockets. 
Everything AndrewT said is in line with the way everyone I know operates.
As for picking up the tab on a date, well, it kind of depends.
GOING TO A CAFE.
If you’re having a casual coffee type thing, it’d definitely be a ‘dutch’ deal if you’re not yet properly dating, and you’d probably alternate ‘shouting’ once you *were * dating.
FORMAL DINING
If you ask a girl out to a restaurant - ie, a dress-up date, then it’d be implied that you’re paying for that.
2a. If she asks you out to a restaurant, she will probably offer to pay. You, however, will probably elect to go ‘dutch’ or pay for it instead, because your mother raised you better than that and besides, you likely want to get into her pants at some time in the future. And, let’s face it, women are frequently suckers for men with good manners.
(Note that it only qualifies as ‘good manners’ if you *are * actually well-mannered and not rude to the serving staff, etc. In that case she’d probably still let you pay for dinner, but it’d be because she’s now decided you’re a total wanker and is disinclined to pay for the experience of having spent time with you.)
Sadly, we have those types in America too. I think they are universal jerks.