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  #1  
Old 12-10-2004, 12:47 PM
Electronic Chaos Electronic Chaos is offline
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Opposite of phallic?

It seems we see phallic symbols almost daily, but something stumped me. My girlfriend was talking about the art of Georgia O'Keeffe and how alot of it resembles a vagina in some way or other, and I realized that there is no word that I know which means "resembling a vagina." So, dopers, what is the femenine counterpart to "phallic?"
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  #2  
Old 12-10-2004, 12:52 PM
ultrafilter ultrafilter is offline
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"yonic". It's fairly obscure, and it's not the opposite of "phallic". The opposite of "phallic" is "non-phallic".
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  #3  
Old 12-10-2004, 12:55 PM
CapnPitt CapnPitt is offline
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I know it's not correct, but I offer vaginalia
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  #4  
Old 12-10-2004, 01:02 PM
Satyagrahi Satyagrahi is offline
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The word you're looking for is 'vulvar'.
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  #5  
Old 12-10-2004, 01:04 PM
iamthewalrus(:3= iamthewalrus(:3= is offline
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vulvar works, but the vaginal analog to phallic is, as ultra posted, yonic.
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  #6  
Old 12-10-2004, 03:06 PM
Excalibre Excalibre is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iamthewalrus(:3=
vulvar works, but the vaginal analog to phallic is, as ultra posted, yonic.
Then shouldn't the opposite of "yonic" be "lingamic" or something? Why is a Hindu term that's in fairly limited use as far as I've ever seen the opposite of "phallic"? How about "vaginal"?
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  #7  
Old 12-10-2004, 11:51 PM
moriah moriah is offline
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'Labial' would be more analogous to 'phallic' than 'vaginal' since we're dealing with outward shape and not necessarily the function of the organ.
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  #8  
Old 12-11-2004, 12:16 AM
Satyagrahi Satyagrahi is offline
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Gentlemen.

All the words mentioned do indeed have something to do with the female genitalia. However, 'phallic,' in modern usage, is a term used in psychology. And the complement of 'phallic,' used commonly in the the psych biz, is 'vulvar.' It refers to the externally visible female genitalia (thereby complementary to phallic) and the mental attitudes related to them.
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  #9  
Old 12-11-2004, 05:29 AM
irishgirl irishgirl is offline
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"gynic"?
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  #10  
Old 12-11-2004, 05:56 AM
moriah moriah is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Satyagrahi
Gentlemen.

All the words mentioned do indeed have something to do with the female genitalia. However, 'phallic,' in modern usage, is a term used in psychology.
Well, you're very, very wrong.

Just do a Google search for 'phallic' and you'll find most references to phallic in the context of "hey, it looks like an erect penis."


Quote:
And the complement of 'phallic,' used commonly in the the psych biz, is 'vulvar.' It refers to the externally visible female genitalia (thereby complementary to phallic) and the mental attitudes related to them.
I'll agree that 'vulvar' is just as good an analogue to 'phallic' as 'labial' is. However, I can't find one single cite of 'vulvar' in the psychological coinage. Could you please provide a cite? Thanks.

Peace.
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  #11  
Old 12-11-2004, 07:42 AM
Johanna Johanna is offline
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Since the OP asked the question in the context of Georgia O'Keefe's art, I think "yonic" is the best answer. The reason: artists who paint in that O'Keefian style overwhelmingly prefer yoni to describe their focus, and in my forays in the arts world I have never seen "vulvar" used to describe this style of art. It's always "yoni."
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  #12  
Old 12-11-2004, 01:02 PM
spingears spingears is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moriah
'Labial' would be more analogous to 'phallic' than 'vaginal' since we're dealing with outward shape and not necessarily the function of the organ.
Camel's Hoof?
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  #13  
Old 12-11-2004, 01:36 PM
CynicalGabe CynicalGabe is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by ultrafilter: "yonic". It's fairly obscure

"fairly" obscure?
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  #14  
Old 12-11-2004, 02:49 PM
Susie Derkins Susie Derkins is offline
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I vote for coochy-esque.
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  #15  
Old 12-11-2004, 03:42 PM
Nobody Nobody is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jomo Mojo
Since the OP asked the question in the context of Georgia O'Keefe's art, I think "yonic" is the best answer. The reason: artists who paint in that O'Keefian style overwhelmingly prefer yoni to describe their focus, and in my forays in the arts world I have never seen "vulvar" used to describe this style of art. It's always "yoni."
Hmmm, I'm starting to think about new age music for some reason...
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  #16  
Old 12-11-2004, 05:05 PM
EmeraldGrue EmeraldGrue is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spingears
Camel's Hoof?
How long before this thread converges with the camel toe one?
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  #17  
Old 12-11-2004, 07:43 PM
AHunter3 AHunter3 is offline
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I vote for "vestibular"

Relevant link

(The adjective form's in the dictionary too, but it has non-useful definitions like "pertaining to a vestibule")
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  #18  
Old 12-11-2004, 08:40 PM
Johanna Johanna is offline
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Vestibular and vulvar are both from Latin, while phallic is from Greek. If you object to using a Sanskrit word as parallel to the Greek one, how is Latin any better? To satisfy the hobgoblin of consistency, you would need to come up with a Greek word. Strangely, the classical Greek language seems to lack a word for the yoni. When the Greeks talked about it, they used other words metaphorically: either kolpos = 'inlet' or kteis = 'comb'. ("Comb"? Huh?) So you could coin your own Greek-based adjectives, either colpic or cteic.

I still go with yonic, as it's the term that's already won acceptance from those who care about the subject. A Google search brings up 5,510 hits for "yonic." The second and third hits right off the search page tell us, and I quote:

Word: "yonic".
Short Definition: the opposite of phallic.

yonic. Andrew Van Schaack writes: ... The feminine counterpart of phallic
is doughnutish. No, just kidding. There really is a word, and it is yonic.
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  #19  
Old 12-11-2004, 08:40 PM
Enola Straight Enola Straight is offline
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Cunnilic?
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  #20  
Old 12-11-2004, 11:09 PM
AHunter3 AHunter3 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jomo Mojo
Vestibular and vulvar are both from Latin, while phallic is from Greek. If you object to using a Sanskrit word as parallel to the Greek one, how is Latin any better? To satisfy the hobgoblin of consistency, you would need to come up with a Greek word. Strangely, the classical Greek language seems to lack a word for the yoni. When the Greeks talked about it, they used other words metaphorically: either kolpos = 'inlet' or kteis = 'comb'. ("Comb"? Huh?) So you could coin your own Greek-based adjectives, either colpic or cteic.
Didn't they have a word...umm, I saw it written in Greek characters and looked them up to see how it would sound, so this may not be how others would transliterate it into our alphabet, but kophon with both o's as long o's. (I saw it w/reference to ancient female fecundity carvings that were being compared to the [URL="http://www.pantheon.org/areas/gallery/mythology/europe/celtic/sheila-na-gig.jpg"]"shiela-na-gig"[/ULR] images found elsewhere).

So, kophonic?
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  #21  
Old 12-11-2004, 11:14 PM
Sunspace Sunspace is offline
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I vote for 'vulvic', which I have just made up. It matches 'phallic' in ending and number of syllables, and starts with the 'vulv' root.
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  #22  
Old 12-11-2004, 11:37 PM
Johanna Johanna is offline
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Hmm, kwjoV is Greek for 'dumb', 'mute'. Google "kophon" and you'll find lots of quotes from the Greek Gospel about Jesus healing a bloke's dumbness. Maybe it was used for the yoni because it's compared to a mouth, but it does not speak.
Quote:
Show you sweet Caesar's wounds, poor poor dumb mouths,
And bid them speak for me
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  #23  
Old 12-12-2004, 12:44 AM
moriah moriah is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jomo Mojo
Hmm, kwjoV is Greek for 'dumb', 'mute'. Google "kophon" and you'll find lots of quotes from the Greek Gospel about Jesus healing a bloke's dumbness. Maybe it was used for the yoni because it's compared to a mouth, but it does not speak.
Gives a whole new meaning to "Shut your pie-hole!"
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  #24  
Old 12-12-2004, 12:56 AM
Loopydude Loopydude is offline
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Liptastic?
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  #25  
Old 12-12-2004, 09:06 AM
aerodave aerodave is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moriah
Well, you're very, very wrong.

Just do a Google search for 'phallic' and you'll find most references to phallic in the context of "hey, it looks like an erect penis."
Is he? He never said that "phallic" used in psychological circles is unrelated to it's meaning as an adjective for a penile form. His statement and the meaning that you paraphrased are NOT mutually exclusive.

He's mentioned psychology to say that "phallic" is used mainly when we talk about the mental attitudes towards things that look like penises. Are you implying that there's nothing going on psychologically when people compare the Washington Monument to a big penis? It's obvious that there's a lot of Freudian theory behind the reason so many people use the penis as a base reference, instead of thinking "Hey, that looks like a big fence post!!"
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  #26  
Old 12-12-2004, 02:31 PM
AHunter3 AHunter3 is offline
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[Melanie]
Freud's mystic world of meaning need not leave us mystified
It's really very simple what the psyche tries to hide:
A thing is a phallic symbol if it's larger than it's wide!
[/Melanie]

...and the ID goes marching on, hallelujah!


There is a difference between phallic and penile, sure enough. So we not only need a proper Greek-origin adjective for the corresponding female parts, we need an adjective that specifically references them in a moistened and engorged state. The hungry mouth and all that.
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  #27  
Old 12-12-2004, 08:48 PM
moriah moriah is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aerodave
Is he? He never said that "phallic" used in psychological circles is unrelated to it's meaning as an adjective for a penile form. His statement and the meaning that you paraphrased are NOT mutually exclusive.
To me, when someone says, 'the modern usage of term X is..." I hear an exclusivity. (Would 'phallic' even have an ancient or classical terminology?)

Ordinarily, when one is giving one of several possible definitions of a term, one usually says, "term X often means... can also mean... one of its modern meanings is..."

It's possible that an exclusivity wasn't meant. <shrug>

I'm still waiting for a cite on how 'vulvar' is used in psych circles to indicate a mental attitude.

Peace.
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  #28  
Old 12-12-2004, 10:07 PM
Satyagrahi Satyagrahi is offline
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OK, a citation or two.

The sites online refer mostly to medical conditions and the psychological syndromes connected to them. Google (Dogpile, actually) did not come up with any straight psychology texts. If you don't mind citations to psychology textbooks you don't have on your bookshelf, I'll dig through a few and come up with page numbers, etc.

In the meantime, these sites show the common usage of 'vulvar' as the medical term for the external parts of the female genitalia. Clinical psychology takes its usage from there.

Vulvodynia.com

The Vulvar Pain Foundation

PubMed abstract

Self Help Magazine

Vulvar Health
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  #29  
Old 12-12-2004, 10:22 PM
Satyagrahi Satyagrahi is offline
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Oops, found an online usage of the term in a purely psychological context.

From The Rorschach Test

Quote:
Christina Crawford meets projective psychology: This blot is supposed to reveal how you really feel about your mother. Virtually everyone sees two girls or women. Deprecating descriptions of the figures~ "witches," "gossips," "girls fighting," "spinsters" indicate poor maternal relations. Seeing the blot as thunderclouds instead of female figures suggests anxiety to some psychologists; seeing it as a walnut kernel may mean a vulvar fixation.
Bolding mine.
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  #30  
Old 12-12-2004, 10:30 PM
Satyagrahi Satyagrahi is offline
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And another. Though only peripherally psychological, it shows the two terms used as contrasting complements.

From Facts and Phallacies

Quote:
Knight applies the now obsolete method of syncretistic comparativism to a variety of phallic and vulvar deities in an attempt to demonstrate that they all express the Neo-Platonic legend of an original hermaphroditic creator God who split into two halves, one male and one female.
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  #31  
Old 12-13-2004, 08:46 AM
eunoia eunoia is offline
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I'd say yonic as well, but at least one source disagrees:

Maude: In a sense, yes. Elfranco, my robe. My art has been commended as being strongly vaginal. Which bothers some men. The word itself makes some men uncomfortable. Vagina.

Dude: Oh yeah?

Maude: Yes, they don't like hearing it and find it difficult to say. Whereas without batting an eye a man will refer to his "dick" or his "rod" or his "Johnson".

Dude: "Johnson"?

- The Big Lebowski
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  #32  
Old 12-13-2004, 10:30 PM
moriah moriah is offline
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Thank-you, Satyagrahi, for those cites.

Peace.
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  #33  
Old 12-14-2004, 11:30 AM
mbh mbh is offline
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The unabridged dictionaries in my college library used "phallicism" to refer to lingam-worship and "kteism" to refer to yoni-worship.
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  #34  
Old 12-14-2004, 02:43 PM
bughunter bughunter is offline
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Dibs on Kteist for a username!!
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  #35  
Old 12-15-2004, 04:49 AM
Johanna Johanna is offline
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I went to the Oxford English Dictionary and found that the adjective yonic has an impressively long history of use in English for precisely this meaning. Going back to 1879.

yoni ('jəUnI). [Skr.] A figure or symbol of the female organ of generation as an object of veneration among the Hindus and others. Hence 'yonic a.
1799 Asiatick Researches III.363 The navel of Vishnu, by which they mean the os tincæ, is worshipped as one and the same as the sacred yóni.
1879 M. MACFIE Relig. Parall. 27 The yonic or moon-worshippers of Chaldea... The yonic symbolism professed by their remote ancestors in Turkestan, who were originally worshippers of the female principle.
1906 WHATHAM in Amer. Jrnl. Relig. & Psychol. II.44 In nature-worship, all natural orifices were reverenced as representing the yoni of the mother-earth goddess.
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