I’m preparing myself for a promotion to management. I’ve been with the company for nearly three years and I’ve worked very hard to get to this point. It feels long overdue.
How do I figure out what I’m worth in salary to the company. I’m hourly at the moment. Every review I’ve had has been overall positive and each review has gotten better. I’m well-versed in our corporate culture and policies, though I’ve not had any previous management experience. I have been in a supervisory position for the over a year. I have been conscientious in observing my managers and know what my management style will be. I’ve started the process of learning the financial aspect of retail management.
I know the money’s not that great in retail management, but I want to get the best pay possible and I’ve not got a clue what to ask for. How do I go about determining a figure to ask for?
Also, there’s a strong push from corporate to promote from within, so is it reasonable to assume that internal promotions are more valuable salary-wise to the company than external hires. Since salary generally commensurates with experience, would I be more valuable as a trained internal than an external with management experience? Keep in mind that external hires generally go through the same training as internal promotions with the exception that they don’t receive the valuable experience that actually working in the environment offers.
Talk to someone else in the same position. Tell 'em why you need to know and ask them to give you an idea of what the salary range is. One rule of negotiation is to always ask for more than you are willing to accept, but by knowing some boundaries you know about where to place yourself and how much to give up. Most big companies have a pre-determined salary range for any given position. I think simply hitting anyplace inside that range and demonstrating that you’ve done some research/have a reasonable expectation is good enough for the promotion phase you’re looking at.
My niece worked there for a number of years–gimme a job title and I’ll see if I can extract a figure from her.
Good luck, and skim a couple pounds of Yukon (large cone) a month my way when you’re rich & famous. K?
I was going to ask my boss as she, last year, did the same thing I’m doing. Our backgrounds are different though, so I thought I’d just use that as a jumping off point. But that doesn’t really give me a range and I can’t think of anyone else to ask. Is it really something I want to do, going around and asking my future colleagues what I should ask for in salary?
I’m looking at managing a store. Obviously, I know we don’t earn as much in middle America as out on the coasts. But considering I’ll be salary-based with no paid OT, I need to be able to afford it. There’s not a great deal of glory in middle management: long hours, greater responsibility, and team performance & market factors are the determining factor in extra pay. Although, I couldn’t imagine staying where I’m at indefinitely. I’m champing at the bit to get into a more challenging position. I’d like to think I’m actually on the ladder and will keep moving up.
The retail management trainee is essentially an assistant store manager that is to be placed in a store as a manager upon successful completion of the training period.
I checked out salary.com – thanks msmith537! Median salary is approx. $33.5k. The range is $28k to $39k. I think I’m far above average in familiarity with our own corporate practices and culture. The downside is that I have no previous management experience. Having seen firsthand how difficult it can be for external hires (w/ mgt exp) to acclimate to the culture, I think this might actually be a good thing. It’s like they’re getting a blank slate that they’ve already indoctrinated to manage the way corporate has determined is most effective. Does that make sense?
Huh. Maybe retail is different, but in the corporate world, most senior managers would be pretty appalled at someone marching into their office to declare what they think they’re worth. See, in corporate jobs, there’s a pay structure in place. That means you will not be offered a cent more than what the going formula/rate is for your position with your level of experience in that position and specific to that company. Your salary is also driven by market value within your local community. How do you know what monster.com (or whatever) has the accurate market value for your position in your area?
Why can’t you just call HR and ask what the salary range is for the position and ask for 20% over the minimum? I’d never give an unexperienced manager 20% over the minimum in the range, but you don’t want to appear to undervalue yourself either. Forget the web sites and don’t expect co-workers to breach confidentiality and discuss salary with you. That can be a very dicey and tacky thing to do because you never know who is a great negotiator for themselves and who screwed themselves… and they might know either until you ask. It can create resentment and hard feelings later on down the road.
What Dogzilla said. There should be a standard percentage raise upon promotion. You might try computing your effective yearly salary, based on your hourly rate, and figure out a reasonable (say 5%) raise. If what they offer you is less than that, you might negotiate - but you might ask someone else who has been promoted what percentage raise is reasonable.
Forget about comparing your new salary to external rates. A person applying from the outside is being competed for, while a person inside is seen as being locked in. I don’t know about your business, but in mine (especially during times of inflation) starting salaries went up a lot faster than raises - but those who got the high starting salaries tended not to get big raises until things evened out.
In my experience, a candidate with management experience and minimal corporate culture exposure is worth more in a management position than a candidate with no management experience but thorough indoctrination in the corporate culture. I’m looking at myself as one who totally sucked at being the boss despite knowing the process & company philosophy forward and back. Look at how most big corps pick their CEO–they frequently grab someone else’s rather than promote from within.
Why? Because management is primarily about getting others to do what you need them to do. There are a number of tools you need at your disposal to get this done, and almost none of them have anything to do with the company.
Can you identify and lure good workers to your establishment? You may have a hard sell just to stay properly staffed. Can you fire non-producers, even if they are likeable? That means even if you know this is their primary source of income? Can you do it in such a way as to not have the “survivors” feel like they are wiping blood off their aprons because you swung the axe too hard or too frequently? Can you fire a good worker who, by virtue of a negative personality, drags everyone else, and their performance, down? Can you identify and adequately address training issues? Before they become TRAINING ISSUES? Some people can do all that naturally, no matter what company or industry they are in. I can’t. But I know a hell of a lot about insurance and how to administer a policy. Just don’t make me responsible for getting others to produce, because man, I suck at that.
I wouldn’t trust salary.com too far. Everything is different everywhere. Even in the same town, the manager of one store in the posh area is worth more (and therefore paid more) than the manager in the bad area. Throw in the difference between NYC and Greenfield, Indiana, and you’ve got a huge spread.
And all that is assuming that every candidate is the same, which they aren’t. More experience, more other good qualities means more money of course.
I think you’re doing the right thing all the way around: you’re pushing into management, you’re looking to get the best deal you can for yourself, you’re doing some research on what your options are, you’re aware of your positives and negatives. Even if you don’t get much of a raise, you still want this management job. Put in a year, and you have retail management for your resume, and you can look at other options. But to go from where you are now to management at another store is unlikely.
I wouldn’t position myself as a “blank slate”. It’s a bad thing to go into an interview saying “mold me! I’ll be exactly what you want me to be”, especially if you’re interviewing for a management position. They want to hear about how you’re strong, and will be strong for them.
Also, I wouldn’t push knowing the culture as a plus. It’s like getting along with other employees; it’s just expected (even if past employees failed at it). More importantly, it isn’t really what your bosses care about. They care about how you’ll make sure everything runs correctly, how they’ll bring in more revenue, and how they’ll keep costs low. Talk about that stuff, and you’ll resonate with them.
Dogzilla, thanks for your great response. First of all, I know corporate asks what salary you expect, but I’m not sure what they do with that info. Use it to judge whether you’re over/undervaluing yourself? I’m sure there is a salary range that I’ll want to use to tailor my request and you’re right, it’s a great idea to find out what that is. I’m really wondering where I should put myself in that range. Of course, I think I’m at least average, so I’d probably as for slightly above the median, just to hopefully get at least what I think I’m worth.
I had a sneaking suspicion it would be tacky and politically incorrect to start asking other managers how much to ask for. Unprofessional actually, although I might be able to get away with it with my boss as we’ve mutually supported each other’s career goals. When I first started working there, she was in my position and the first person I really connected with.
Of note, apparently, salary.com considers location in its estimated market value. The numbers don’t seem outlandish do they?
Voyager, I did the math. A 5% raise for such a jump in responsibilities is depressing to say the least. And probably would be less than what some of my future subordinates who have been with the company for quite awhile are making. I don’t know how close I am to the top in terms of what I’m making at my current level for someone with three years invested. But I would expect at the very absolute minimum 40% more than what I’m making now just to be market competetive. We’re not talking unreasonable numbers here.
Inigo, my dear, you can call me anything you want.
That’s what I thought, sadly. I’m pretty sure I can do the job. From what I’ve seen, it’s much more about balance than anything else. You can be the greatest people person ever and a competent manager, but fail to meet your financial goals because you suck at analysis, planning and execution. On the other hand, you can be a financial genious who eats the P&L for breakfast, lunch and dinner, but be an abysmal people manager. I’ve worked for both types. While you can be taught the financial aspect of retail, people skills are harder to acquire. I’m focusing a lot of energies on learning how to get the best out of people. I’m a seriously by-the-book person who tries hard to be flexible. However, in my current position, the major challenge is that I have the responsibility of supervising people with no tangible enforcement powers. It can be extremely frustrating. And this is the situation I’m looking forward to leaving behind. Without too much criticism of my manager, this is often a problem of management not following through effectively on reports from the front lines. I want to be in a position to change that for my staff. Supervisors need to be treated as the eyes and ears of upper management. If you charge them with effecting a goal, they’re feedback is not to be taken lightly.
I know managing people is hard. There are certain aspects I certainly dread. But I think the pay-off (non-financial) is worth it when you’re generally a pro-active type of person.
Again, don’t get the idea that I plan on becoming self-made millionaire in this business (other than perhaps with my stock options :)), but I need a salary that will compensate for the added personal financial obligations the job will require.
It’s better to ask for too much than for too little. If you ask for more, you’ll get what they were planning to offer you in the first place. If you ask for less than they were planning to offer, you’ll almost certainly get less. Also, do not give a range, e.g. ‘oh, I was thinking somewhere between $30k and $40k.’ That means $30k.
If at all possible, don’t offer any number at all if you can avoid it. If you’re in an interview and they ask you what salary you had in mind, try to defer with something like “I’m sure whatever you guys have in mind will be competitive” and then ask what they typically pay people at your level. If it’s much lower than you were expecting, ask for more.
Don’t be afraid of looking greedy or unrealistic about your worth – the people hiring you have an interest in paying you as little as possible. Making less money so that some person in HR doesn’t think you’re arrogant is a poor trade.
I’m sorry, but I don’t think this is realistic. At all.
Even if they won’t be able to get a manager for less than 140% of your salary, the thing is, if they take that route, they’ll have a manager, someone who’s done it before, someone that they’ll just hand the keys to, and the shop will run. If you take on the job, you’ll be an investment that they’ll have to train and over-see for a while, which means that someone else will have to be a co-manager of sorts, which means it will cost way more than just your salary.
Also, Retail Store Manager is the sort of job where there are a lot of them out there. It’s a competitive market, and you’re on the low side of the experience scale.
I’m on your side. By all means, push for what you can. But I’m thinking 10 or 15 points is about the best you’ll do. And if you’re too insistent on something that they consider unreasonable, you’ll only damage your opportunity.
This could be a big opportunity. If anything, push for a review in 3 months, but not for a substantial raise up front.
Bill H., and everyone else, thanks again for your responses. I should be clear about my goal. I was never really interested in retail. I took this job for extra cash and ended up really enjoying it. I discovered along the way that I’m pretty darn good at it and that there’s so much to learn about our product that I find very interesting. It’s great fun and it’s challenging. Along the way, I discovered that I like the company I work for very much. I believe in them. It’s one I definitely want to stay with. This has all led to my desire to move up. I would like to have more control over my environment. I’d like to be able to make an even more significant difference for our company and customers. I’d like more opportunity to share my experience and passion with our employees and hopefully inspire them, the way the company has inspired me. Lofty goals, I know. The reality is, that it’s not the retail job that excites me, it’s our product and how our company has chosen to deliver it. All the while treating its employees with admirable character and value.
I just really wouldn’t be interested in pursuing this line of work outside of this company, at the moment. However, not getting the promotion would be devastating. I’ve invested so much of myself that I truly believe it would be a major setback. I’ve waited longer than many I’ve seen and have tried to grow from the experience. Eventually, though, it gets to the point where you don’t feel the company values you as much as you feel they should. They’ve already invested much time and money in me and, in return, I’ve given them 110% while showing that I truly do care and embrace our mission.
That said, this is the company that I want to manage a store for. OTOH, I’m not going to sit in a position that frustrates me more than it challenges me indefinitely. I’m ambitious, to a certain extent, and you can’t temper that forever. I work very hard and sometimes, though I try to avoid it, the things I see slip that shouldn’t causes some bitterness. I know I would do things differently. If I’m really effective in executing it, it will work out. Either way, I’ll learn from the experience. This way, I just get to see it with not much affect on it. Frustrating. I can’t see staying very much longer with no hope of promotion. I really feel I’ve come to the point of being under-utilized.
On a personal note, there are going to be some serious sacrificing in order to take this promotion which I’m ready and willing to do, but the reality is, I have to be able to afford it. A 5% jump in pay would not make this feasible. At my current level of pay and responsibility, I can prioritize my family. I don’t have to work full-time as long as I can swing it, financially. Therefore, I currently don’t have the expenses I would at full-time. As a manager, I’ll have to work full-time and I don’t know any managers that don’t put in extra hours regularly unpaid. Realistically, that’s not going to pay my added bills acquired as a result of the added hours. Often, it’s a trade-off for parents: career or family. I’m willing to choose career at this point, but is it asking too much to say, hey, I don’t want my family suffering needlessly because I made that choice. To me, it’s simple. Added responsibility and hours means an equal amount of added pay. My first promotion somewhat followed this theme. I wish I’d gotten more, but I was satisfied with what I got and thought it was worth it. My periodic raises have been generally acceptable as well.
My apologies if I’ve gone on too long or repetitively in this vein. Anyhoo…
Not so. To my knowledge, externals w/ mgt experience and internal promotions go through the exact same training process. You spend a certain amount of time in a store as an assistant manager before you are placed in your own store as a manager. Externals need to be acclimated to Our Mission and The Way We Do Things Around Here which, I’m pleased to say, is extensive and detailed to say the least. They stress this to every employee from bottom up quite vehemently. I have three years of that. Then, there is day-to-day operations. Same thing. Day-to-day operations are different from company to company. Here’s how you do payroll; here’s how you place orders; etc. Same training for all potential managers. What I can’t offer them, which an external w/exp. can is experience as a manager, to be sure. But I’ve seen it done long enough (and been involved in much of it) in this context that I’ll likely be as competent from the start as any external hire. I may trip up or require slightly more guidance in some areas, but less in others. I certainly grasp the Big Picture.
That’s kind of what I meant when I said “blank slate.” I won’t have to unlearn any mgmt practices that doesn’t coincide with our Big Picture. I will have a much better understanding of my subordinates (and the company and customers) than an outsider. That must be why they are so interested in promoting from within.
See, much of that money you say they’re going to have to invest in me to prepare me for success as a manager has already been spent. They’re only focusing on different aspects of training. And they really aren’t starting from square one. The likelihood of me eventually deciding I don’t like the way the company runs is slim to none because I’ve already been exposed to it and I’m a fan. I know I can fit in to this niche because I already do.
As you can see, I’ve been thinking a lot about this and am preparing myself for an upcoming interview I’m hoping to get. Somehow, I’m going to be saying the gist of a lot of this at the interview, I imagine. It’s my selling point.
BTW, I recently got a look at the guide my company provides that lists the skills, attributes, and performance measures for store managers. I was pleased to see that I fit the bill nearly perfectly. We were working on a development plan for me, and she indicated an area that she wanted me to work on. As we were reviewing the performance measures for that attribute, she was having a hard time figuring out why I needed to work on it. Every measure fit me to a T. My response was, “Okay, how can I improve on that?” She was stymied. In the end, I wrote my own development plan (the manager’s job) and implemented it.
Oh, I forgot to mention. A 30% raise would probably put me in line with some long-term employees who have received regular decent merit raises including market adjustments, but preferred not to move farther up the ladder. Would it be wise for a company to have manager with access to pay information who makes less than their subordinates?
I don’t know about your industry but that does happen sometimes. It happens a lot in the technical fields when a manager needs someone with very technical skills such as database administration but the market rate for those skills is higher than management salaries. There is no rule that managers must always make more than all employees under him/her. Part of being a good manager is learning to accept and understand the business reasons why that may happen.
In my field non-managers and managers are a lot closer in salary. In fact in many companies (like the one I’m in now) there is a dual ladder, so switching from management to non-management and vice versa is not a promotion or demotion. It might be 10% is lower than what you should expect. If what they offer is not acceptable, it is okay to negotiate - but maybe you shouldn’t start with a demand.
One thing you can ask other managers, or maybe second level managers, is what raises you can expect in the new job, assuming you’re doing well, of course. Which you will. Often there are salary bands, and the algorithms used to give raises try to move people to where they should be, realizing that it might take a couple of years. So, if you go into the job low, you might get relatively big raises almost automatically for a while. On the other hand, all managers might get a standard raise, in which case you’d be best to try to come in high. But there is usually a policy, which they should be willing to tell you, if unofficially, and you should find out if what you want is going to be easy to get.
I spent years on performance review committees at one job, but the policies there may or may not apply to retail.
