Promotion - Salary

didn’t want to hijack Ruby’s thread so I started my own.

I’ve recently applied for and interviewed for an internal position in another department, that would be a promotion from Manager to Sr. Manager for me.

I’ve got the inside track and the Sr. Director I would work for has basically told me the job is mine, I just need to interview with her boss etc.

I’ve also recently found out through some insider info that the offer I’m likely to recieve from HR is a very meager increase over my current salary, ~ 5% and will likely be combined with any year end merit that is due in a couple of weeks.

Having worked here, done planning, and being part of the budgeting and approval process in the past I am confident that the Sr. Manager job is likely budgeted at around 20% more then my current salary (which is low, as I’ve always been one to just take what I’m given, not negotiate, and get to work).

I plan to negotiate this time and ask for a much higher offer if need be, but could use some advice assuming that they won’t budge, or not budge much.

Do I

  1. Take the new job anyway, try to work hard and be successful and not let the fact that I am getting underpaid again get to me, while knowing this will likely just keep happening with each move in a perpetual cycle?

  2. Reject the offer, stay in my current role, alienating everyone in that new Dept and also essentially announching to my current bosses that there is no threat of me leaving the dept so feel free to not give me good raises or promotions in the future?

  3. Start looking outside the company, even though I work for a very profitable, respected, and successful company in a bad economy?

As you can see, I am frustrated…

If they refuse to negotiate, take it anyway. Work it for a suitable amount of time in your industry to get ‘credit’ for it (1-2 years?) and then use it to find a better job elsewhere.

Seconded. The title and experience will provide benefits especially when the economy improves. But definitely negotiate a little anyway, its good experience.

Is the new position worth switching to in its own right? Will you be working significantly harder, or longer hours, and have significantly increased responsibility?

If you’re just pushing different stacks of paper, rather than bigger ones, it doesn’t seem like they’re doing you dirt- after all, they’re not asking any more of you, regardless of what everyone else in that position is paid. If they’re asking more of you, then they should be prepared to pay you accordingly, and you’ll have to decide whether you’re willing to take a 10% work increase (or whatever) for a 5% pay increase - taking into account the resume/influence/whatever boost that comes with the new position.

Thats what I’m trying to decide. I guess part of my issue is, if I decide that it isn’t worth whatever they offer me, I may have put myself in an akward situation with that dept as well as my current department, thus affecting long term career progress. Not to mention that if such a small increase is truly the policy, then waiting around or looking for another internal position wouldn’t work either.

Thus, I’m torn. I feel like my career is at a stand still (money wise) yet I like the company, my coworkers, etc.

Should hear about the offer today, so a decision is coming soon I guess…

If in negotiation they won’t move much, you could consider saying that you’ll take the job, but would like a performance and salary review in 3 months. You then work really hard so as to look good for that review, at which you say, in effect “See, I told you I would be seriously productive. Now you need to think about paying me something closer to what I’m worth.”

If they still won’t budge, it will clearly be time to look elsewhere.

I hope things go well for you today, Fat Chance, but unfortunately in my experience, companies tend to underpay internal promotions. You could literally leave the company for 6-12 months and come back to this very same position and be offered substantially better compensation. I feel your frustration.

You have to remember the job market is awful. Wages and salaries for jobs have fallen. Your job isn’t worth what it was a year ago. It’s worth less, because they can get an outsider to take the job for less.

Jobs are hard to come by

The best thing to do is try to hold off starting the job till your normal yearly pay rise kicks in.

Then take the job if offered.

You can ask for more, but don’t expect it. If they don’t give more, take the job and when the economy gets better, leave. Don’t let them talk you into staying. If a company is gonna pull stuff like this, taking advantage of you in a weak economy, they aren’t worth much for your future.

So do what you can to increase your salary and when the economy perks up, leave.

I am absolutely amazed at how much in my industry (hotels) the salaries have fallen. I’ve not had on interview in a year where the salary for a job I used to do is not much (usually around $10,000 year less) than I was making before.

I was talking to a construction engineer friend yesterday who was asked to take a 60% pay cut or be laid off. Food for thought.

Thirded. Take the job AND start looking for a new one. The company you work for seems to be a dead end salary wise, and you seem to be looking for more money.

But also, if this is a big company, its often the case that the move from Mgr to Sr. Mgr has bigger bonus perks (bigger percentage of base, better options, whatever), so make sure you review the total compensation package.

Do keep in mind that the last few years seem to have resulted in depressed wages. In my company, everyone took a paycut, but management took a bigger one. Everyone got their pay back - except management, they only got PART of it back and are likely to ever only get part of it back. I’ve heard similar stories at other companies, where highly paid managers have been let go in favor of the less highly paid ones, making the average salary smaller.

Really you make no sense. You are up for a promotion and a 5% raise in an economy where there is still almost 10% unemployment and you are bent out of shape because it’s not 20%. Are you going to be doing 20% more work? Are you suddenly 20% more valuable to the company? Probably not. You would be a new Senior Manager and a significant amount of your time for the first six months to a year will be learning the ins and outs of your new position.

So what would you do? Leave for a lateral position for about the same pay in another company?
What you should be asking is what is your long term career plan and how does this job fit in with that? Is your goal to run a department eventually? Gain enough credentials to become some sort of subject matter expert? Or are you just sort of jumping from rock to rock when you see one that’s a bit shinier?

It really sucks that there’s 10% unemployment. It sucks even more that actually it’s closer to 20% combined with underemployment and those who are no longer counted because they’ve been unemployed too long.
If I could wave my magic wand and change all that, I would.

But really, YOU make no sense. It’s like saying I should be thankful for the food on my plate because there are starving children in Africa. What does that matter? This is about the OP and the OP’s negotiations and people in line for soup kitchens really shouldn’t factor into that negotiation at all. Why the automatic assumption that, in the new job, the OP won’t be providing 20% more benefit to the company? Or that it matters so much to at least make the argument that the compensation is deserved?

No, he makes perfect sense. Now is the time to think long term, not short term. The raise may not be there today, but is this a better long term spot to be in? Having made himself available for the job, turning it down now over salary would make him look like “not a team player” and might be remembered the next time they need to figure out where to cut. Having Sr. Manager rather than Manager on his resume is worth something even without an increase in pay.

Plus, considering that most companies are instituting salary freezes, a 5% raise seems pretty decent.

I don’t know how your company works, but when I did salary administration there was no budget for a job, but rather a range of salaries. Being new to the job you are not going to get the same amount of money as someone with ten years of experience in it will get. In better times someone low would get bigger than average raises - assuming performance is good - to grow into the position.
We always had a problem with new PhDs in a competitive market. They came in very high for their job title, and got skimpy raises (unless they were superstars) for years afterward.

BTW, promotions usually came with a 5% raise, even in good times.

Fourthed.

Also, if I were you, I would pay no attention to people telling you about the bad economy. Nationwide trends don’t necessarily impact your location or industry or job type. If you don’t work in an auto factory, there’s no reason to just sit there and be happy with what you have just because many auto factory workers are unemployed.

Really?:dubious: You don’t get it and are going to make me explain it to you? Because it’s absolutely nothing like what you just said.

It’s like if you were one of the children in Africa and bitched out the UNICEF guy because he gave you plain ole white rice instead of Uncle Ben’s Ready Whole Grain Medley rice. Be happy you get some fucking rice. He is part of the job market, even though he has a job.
Since the OP is presumably a competant professional and not a frustrated child, he needs to think strategically. The best time to negotiate a raise is NOT in the middle of a recession. The best time is AFTER you have gotten promoted to Senior Manager and AFTER business starts to pick up. You have more options and more leverage if things don’t go your way.

msmith537, it’s a business, not a charity. Were he not doing a good enough job to be worth his salt, they wouldn’t be promoting him.

What are they going to do, fire him because he dared try to negotiate when being promoted? When he is assuming the new position, he has the most leverage. They want him for this job. The likeliest thing that will happen, if they can’t or won’t pay more, is that they’ll say no. On the other hand, they might very well say yes – or they might agree to a perk, like an extra week of vacation, or flextime on alternate Fridays, or whatever.

If their attitude is that he should damned well be grateful for a paltry raise instead of a slap in the face, he should note that and look for other employment when it’s feasible.

It is a business, not a charity. And as a business, they aren’t likely to fire him, but they are likely to put him on the “list of people who are not currently content and are flight risks anyway so we might as well lay him off if we’ve had a bad quarter because we aren’t likely to retain him if he finds something better, and then we won’t be able to get replacement headcount.” I’ve MADE those lists. The economy is still not in a place where you want to be on that list.

5% for a protion not an annual increase. I doubt there are many companies out there (at least not in industries that are thriving such as mine) that are promoting people and giving them more work and responsibility while freezing thier salary.