Salary negotiation makes me "pitty"

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
1

So for the first time in my career, today I asked for more than what I was offered. My armpits are all sweaty!

I grew up with a father that put the fear of God in me about the subject of money- talking about it, asking for it, etc. As a result, I have NEVER asked for more than what was offered to me by an employer. I think I have been serially underpaid in my career, and I have always over-delivered.

So finally, with a lot of years of therapy under my belt, and a year working freelance for this company that I really, really like, I’ve been offered a job and a salary that is above my previous level (but not by much- a few K). Now, I could have said “yes” like I have every other time, but this time I said, “I have this amount in mind” (a few K above what was offered). Nothing huge, nothing unreasonable, I don’t think. The exec seemed surprised, because she remembers me saying a number. I’m sure I didn’t because that number would have been seared in my brain like it was put there with a cattle brand- I think she probably said a number in the original “I’m thinking of this position for you” conversation and I (as per usual) didn’t express any negative reaction to it. I explained that although a $6K increase is twice the “bump”, +$6K is what I believe I’m worth. She said that she thought the $3K increase was in the “wow” zone. Honestly, I think it was just in the “meh” zone…

This exec is a very down-to-earth person (we are friendly socially & she’s very open-door and honest/straightforward/relatively non-poltitical), and I was able to explain that salary negotiation is difficult for me, and that I believe I’ve been underpaid in my career as a result of not ever negotiating, so this is almost more of an exercise for me in asking for what I’m worth than anything else, and that I’m grateful for the offer, but +$6 is what I believe I’m worth. I kind of kerfuffled my way through it, but I think she understood where I’m coming from.

I am freaking out like I have offended someone. I HATE this. PLEASE tell me that salary negotiation happens every day and that people counter every day and that it’s O-Kay! I mean: did I ask for too much??? (this salary is in the $50s) Are there situations where negotiating a salary is inappropriate? I know my frankness was atypical, but at least about that I DO feel like the relationship with her permits that kind of honesty.

Ugh. Now I wait…

2

Well, yeah it occurs every day. And you’re the better person for sticking to your guns.

Think of it this way - the person offering the job has a salary range they can work with. They will lowball you with their offer, knowing they can “concede” some salary and still be within their budget*. All you’re doing is making sure you get to the upper part of that range.

*That is, if they know what they’re doing.

3

It’s okay. It’s really okay. No one will be offended. (Possibly surprised, yes, depending on your demeanor and the profession – I suspect engineers, for example, negotiate less than business manager types – but NOT offended.)

I hate asking for more. Really hate it. I did with my current job (engineering field) because my cousin (who is a high-powered lawyer) told me I had to (although I later learned that most people at my company didn’t negotiate when they got their jobs). And… I didn’t get what I asked for (which was probably a bit unreasonable, I asked for more than you did and didn’t have a previous relationship with the company) but I did get a counter-offer which I decided was good enough and accepted. So there you go, I made an unreasonable offer in a company where people don’t often do so and it didn’t at all affect relations with my company.

Seriously, people will actually respect you more for sticking up for what you think you’re worth. Weird but true. You did the right thing.

4

It’s because employers since the dawn of timeclocks have instilled a fear in us that “they are in charge of your current and future destiny”. And they want you to think that so you keep working those 50-60 hours weeks, even though they’re only paying you for 40.

“They” are not in charge. “They” recognized your talent and that you’re someone they might want around more. “They” recognize “fair market salary” and will try to lowball you as close as possible without getting laughter on the other end of the phone.

Companies would get nowhere without good talent to grind under their heels. It’s time for EVERYONE to start making them pay for what we’re worth.

5

You should not have said that. It’s not just an “exercise” for you. You really do want, need, and deserve the additional money. Don’t make it easy for them to say “no”.

Salary negotiation happens every day. People counter every day. It’s OK.

Businesses don’t expect you to be a pushover. In fact, they don’t even want it. Pushovers tend to be poor at controlling expenses and aggressively seeking out new revenue streams. Now get back in there and negotiate!

6

Yes, they happen every day. I just completed the first phase of my first-ever one yesterday. (Second phase will take place at the end of the fiscal year - I got about half the increase I asked for and a written promise to revisit in the coming budget planning process. Yay me!)

This was my first experience with the process and it freaked me the heck out too. It had become necessary because I’ve been in my job 3 years and my responsibilities have increased exponentially due to layoffs and new projects, while all I’ve gotten were COLAs based on my miniscule clerical-level starting salary. I was ok with that for a while as we are a non-profit and I was just glad the whole Madoff thing didn’t pull us under like it did others in our field. Enough is enough though, and I hammered out a new job description and did the research - turns out other comparable orgs are paying literally double what I was getting!

I ended up getting through it by having practice conversations with my mentor who is in a different org so no conflict of interest. I was able to hammer out my answers to all possible objections ahead of time which was a lifesaver. My supervisor definitely looked askance and I didn’t get all I asked for, but now that it’s shaken out I feel like my chain of command isn’t offended - rather they are looking at me in a new light. I basically asked them to put their money where their mouth was as far as my value to the org and what do you know, it seems to have worked!

A mantra of sorts that helped me remain calm was this: “If they say no, that tells me what I need to know” meaning that if they don’t agree then I know they don’t actually value me and I need to take my awesomeness elsewhere. I didn’t (don’t) want to leave, but I had reached the point where I couldn’t justify doing so much work for so little compensation.

Your situation is different, but really it’s the same in that you have the right to place a value on your contribution, and it’s on them to answer that. they may turn you down, either due to disagreement over your value or honest budgetary concerns, but if your organization/supervisor *takes offense *at your honest self-valuation that’s a sign of a toxic work environment.

Don’t know if you are a guy or gal, but I also took my negotiation on as a bit of a feminist exercise as well. There’s a lot of discourse out there about why women are paid less in comparable positions, and many folks feel that part of the reason is that women are less likely to agressively negotiate for salary increases. I don’t know whether that’s truly significant on a societal level, but thinking of it in those terms helped me to stop feeling like this:

And stay focused on my calmly pre-assessed ‘worth’. What I mean by this is that I was able to blame my doubts on societal conditioning and therefor put them aside. And if you’re a guy perhaps the feminist angle won’t help, but dmatsch makes a great and closely related point as well for all of us.

7

I first negotiated a starting salary about 14 years ago, and I got what I asked for. Then for three years I got the maximum allowable raises because I was in tech support and my bosses wanted to make damn sure I felt appreciated on payday for all the crawling around under desks I did every other day.

Then I made a lateral transfer to a straight librarian position and shortly discovered that I made more than my boss. He took it in stride, but his successor seemed to think* that I was overpaid, and consequently the next 3-4 years I regularly look a lot worse in my performance evaluations than I really was doing because she had to find reasons to give me the smallest allowable raises.

Of course, then the economy fell apart, and we stopped getting raises at all. Crazy world.

  • notice that I do not deny this
8

So, if she comes back and says, “Given the current market conditions, we believe that +$3k is the market base pay for this role, and we’re not willing to offer higher than that.” What you gonna do?

9

Another thought related to Omar’s: it’s even better if you have something to back up your estimation of your abilities and not just “I pulled this number out of somewhere” – like, “My research shows that the average person with my qualifications and years of experience makes X as a starting salary, and my prior experience with the company and my awesomeness clearly makes me worth X+$6K” or, even better, “I estimate that my awesome work skills would help the company retain $20X of business, so I’m clearly worth X” – that both helps your case and makes you feel better about negotiating (because darn it, you have empirical evidence you are worth that much!)

10

I’m nervous about this too, as I just finished with grad school and am currently doing the job applications thing. Given how low my field pays in general, I pretty much expect to have to fight for what I’m worth. My current plan is to say, ‘‘The average person graduating from my program makes X amount annually, so that would be ideal.’’ The problem is, I already checked out the 9-90 for an organization I would like to work for, and the executive director makes less than the average graduate from my program. I may have to adjust my expectations accordingly.

No advice, I guess, just commiseration. I am the antithesis of salesperson, so this is way outside my comfort zone. It’s also doubly frustrating because, as a recent graduate, I’m hardly feeling confident about my own abilities. Internally I’m screaming, ‘‘Just hire me! For the love of Og.’’

11

Exactly.

I’m in HR, this happens every day.

If they can’t match what you are looking for (the amount is outside the range) the HR person will most likely come back to you and say something to the effect of the range for this is between 10-15, you are asking for 16, which is over budget, if you want it, it’s 15.

12

You’re not wrong to ask for more if you believe you are worth that much. But telling her that salary negotiation is difficult for you and that you have been serially underpaid your whole life is not such a great thing to do. Terrible, in fact.

When you ask for more than the offer you have to be able to tell them exactly why you are worth more than the offer. What skills are you bringing etc etc? Your belief is not relevant unless you can back it up with a reasonable explanation.

Learn something from this episode. Especially learn that, no matter how ‘down to earth’ and ‘nice’ your employer is, don’t negotiate from a position of weakness, like you did. Hell, you might even get the salary you want this time but it won’t be because you bared your soul to her.

13

Nobody should ever feel bad about negotiating his salary. It’s really a must for any professional. The biggest key is to be prepared. Get as much objective data as you can to back you up and do not be afraid to use it. Print out some stuff from salary.com if you have to.

14

Well, considering it was my first time ever negotiating, I’m proud that I was able to stand up and do it, flawed as the execution may have been. Maybe they won’t give me what I’m asking, and if they don’t, I’ll do better next time. If they do, I’ll still do better next time. It’s all good- the most important thing is…I GOT A JOB!!!

15

In terms of salary, the budget is already set for that job. It’s unlikely they will ever pay you more than the budget says.

That said, it depends on what field you in. For instance, I am in the hotel business, or was and wages have really fallen. I was making 50K in 2003 for a job that now goes for around 30K. I am really astonished how LOW these jobs I apply for are offering. Why? Too many applicants.

So this is why it’s very important to know your market. And know it NOW, now as it was five years ago. You have to scope out and see how many people are applying. Companies now have pretty much the run of the show.

Even in temp jobs. I was able to easily pull in $15/hr at a temp job just as an advanced Excel user. NOW I get minimum wage for it at the same temp company, and that is IF, I get it. There are people much more skilled applying for the same minimum wage temp jobs.

So this is why it’s important to first of all, find out your worth. Know what you can do and can you afford to NOT be hired. If you’re out of work, it doesn’t pay to give up a job as it’s much easier to find a job when you have one.

In that case you’re better off taking the job and still keep looking. If you are working and in no rush, then you are MUCH better off NOT lowballing yourself, as you are no worse off than before.

In today’s economy, if the buget for the job is set at 50K and you come in at 51K you’ve pretty much eliminated yourself as you’ll find someone else willing to take less.

If the buget is 50K and you come in at 50K at least you’ll be in the running with the people willing to take less. You see how that works. As long as you’re in the range of the buget you’ll be considered. Go to high (or too low) and you’ll be tossed out.

This is why it’s vital to sit down find out what the TRUE market rate is. Not what you earned in the past, cause wages have gone down with this economy. And find out what your up against in terms of other applicants.

16

p.s. Even the amount I requested is under what salary.com averages for this position in my area. (I do think that this position has fewer responsibilities than how it was described on salary.com, so it’s not totally unreasonable that the salary would come in under that amount- what I asked for is still under that amount, so I feel OK about the number.)

17

Popping back in to say that I got what I asked for. Yippee!!!

18

Congrats, that’s an extra $11.50 per day. You essentially negotiated yourself a free lunch into your compensation.

19

Congratulations!!!