How does one negotiate a salary?

Factual Questions
1

As some of you know, I recently finished a Ph.D. For reasons I won’t bother going into, I’ve decided to leave that research career path and get more of a computer programming kind of job. I have just been offered a job. (Yay!) The problem is, I’ve been in school my whole adult life so I have zero experience negotiating a salary.

A few questions: Is it the norm to ask for more money than they’ve initially offered? If so, is there a certain amount (e.g. 10% more) that’s considered reasonable? If they don’t take my offer, is their next offer considered final? If they just reject my offer outright am I supposed to assume that means they won’t consider anything higher than the original offer? I mean, I don’t want it to be like I’m begging (“No on 10%? How about 8%? How about 6%?” etc.) but I also don’t want to mistakenly take less than I have to if they’re expecting me to make another offer. I also don’t want them to think I’m some greedy jerk, but I don’t want to come across as a pushover either. It’s a small office, so if I accept the job I’ll be seeing the same people I’m negotiating with on a daily basis.

The thing is, I want the job. I’d like it to pay a little more than it does, but if I have to I’ll probably grit my teeth and take what they’re offering. So I want to make absolutely certain that I don’t end up talking myself out of a job. If I ask for a higher salary, would they take that as me rejecting their initial offer? I mean, I guess I don’t want to tip my hand and reveal that I’d be willing to take their initial offer, but at the same time I need to have some sort of an out where I can backtrack and take what they’re offering. And is there any way to say “Fine, let’s just go with your first offer?” without it sounding like I’m only taking the job grudgingly? I mean, I don’t want to start off on the wrong foot with them.

Basically, I’m totally clueless about how to do this, and frankly it’s not the sort of thing I’m good at anyway. Any advice at all would be helpful.

2

If you have any friends or colleagues in the field, talk with them to find out what they think an appropriate salary would be.

Next check the internet for typical salaries for the type of position you would be going into.

Next, factor in your location. Consider cost of living. Typically, big cities require bigger salaries because the cost of living is so much higher.

Last, factor in the “other” benefits that are offered - how many weeks paid vacation, 401(k) match, etc.

Decide what’s important and ask for it. If you think you deserve 10% more on the salary side - ask for it. They may counter with an offer for another week of vacation. Etc.

As long as you don’t make any rigid and absolute demands (“200k a year or I walk!”) the company will probably negotiate.

3

Here’s a thread about salary negotiation that is recent. The OP ended up doing very well in his negotiation, IIRC. Take a look, I think that one will help answer your questions.

Good luck and counter!

4

There is no GQ answer to this question. This would more properly be in IMHO.

You may or may not be able to negotiate a salary. It all depends. Mostly, it depends on what the employers options are. If they don’t hire you, who will they hire, and how much will they pay?

If they have offered you a job, you can choose to accept the offer or counter the offer. If you do counter, it is best that you can explain WHY you would expect more than their initial offer. But of course, you run the risk of them simply making the same offer to someone equally qualified, and that person may accept.

From my perspective, with no experience in the field, and a field that is somewhat of a commodity, you won’t have too much leverage in the negotiation. The more unique your skills and value to the company, the more leverage you have.

5

Negotiating a salary is like picking up a girl in a bar. There are no rules. You have to make it up as you go because each situation is unique. Sure, you need to do all the research mentioned above and arm yourself with facts, but you are just trying to make sure the deal is in the ballpark. What works in MegaCorp will not work at Mom & Pop, Inc. What works for an experienced, proven worker may not work for someone just out of school… trust your instincts and know that you will think you settled for too little no matter what. If you walk away thinking you really skinned 'em, what does that do for your long-term employment?

6

See, this is what I’m worried about. Would they do this without first giving me another chance to accept their original offer?

If I make a counter offer, and they say “Nope, can’t go above what we offered you” then my plan is to take it. I just don’t want a scenario where they say something like “Well, we’ll think about it” and then let me know later that they found someone else who will take the original offer.

In other words, I’m trying to ask for more without closing the door on their first offer, if that’s really all they’ll give me. Or is that not possible?

7

niblet_head, thanks for the link to that other thread. That is helpful.

At one point in that thread you say:

So I take that to mean they presumably won’t just go offer the lower offer to their next best applicant, unless I actually say “I won’t take that offer.” Or am I misunderstanding?

8

I’m not sure I understand the question, but what I meant specifically is if the employer is offended or miffed specifically because you asked for time and/or countered, then I’d turn the offer down. If they say, “Well, nevermind then, Mr. Pushy Pants! You must answer me now at the salary we’re offering, or forget it!” I’d be glad I dodged a bullet and I’d say no. A lot of people will not negotiate nor ask for time to consider nor counter because they think the employer will be mad at them if they do and they’ll blow their chances.

Bah, says I.

What kind of professional company doesn’t expect you to negotiate? An unprofessional one, that’s what. And you’re a professional, and you don’t work for unprofessional companies!

Does that answer your question?

9

I think so. I guess I’m not so much worried that they’d be offended by my attempt to negotiate, as that they’ll think “Hey, if this guy doesn’t want to work for [initial offer], maybe we should ask for our second choice guy and see if he’ll take it.” But the thing is, I would take their initial offer, I just would like to get more.

To be more clear, here are three scenarios:

Scenario 1
Me: Thank you very much for your offer of X. I’d like to make a counter offer of X + Y.
Them: Sure, you can have X + Y.
Me: Woohoo!

Scenario 2
Me: Thank you very much for your offer of X. I’d like to make a counter offer of X + Y.
Them: Sorry, we can only give you X.
Me: OK, I’ll take X.

Scenario 3
Me: Thank you very much for your offer of X. I’d like to make a counter offer of X + Y.
Them: Well, we need some time to talk it over and see if we can pay X + Y.
*a few hours later . . . *
Them: Well, it turns out our second choice candidate was willing to work for X, so we’ve given him the job. Thanks anyway.
Me: But I would have taken X! sob
Scenario 1 would be wonderful, scenario 2 I could live with, and scenario 3 would be a complete disaster. I really need a job. I would really like a job that pays a little more than they’re offering, and I’d feel stupid not negotiating if they’re expecting me to ask for more. But, I’m wondering how much of a risk I’m taking of losing the job altogether, as in scenario 3.

10

While neither of the below actually get you more salary they might get you some extra money.

I actually negotiated a deal that basically said, “If you don’t run my ass off after a year is up you gotta give me another $4,000.” I think I went with the basic line that they didn’t really appreciate what a wonderful, helpful, creative, etc emplolyee they were getting and once the year was up it would be all they could do not to want to give me more than that.

Is there a move involved? Are they paying for all of it? If they aren’t moving you ask about some help with the expenses. If they are only offering a partial move, see if they will up the amount. Even if they are moving and paying the whole thing you can see if they will go a couple of thou for those pesky incidentals that always pop up.

11

I will say that I, personally, have never had Scenario 3 happen. I have only ever had employers come back and offer me more money. Every time. (Not always what I asked for, but always more than what they offered initially.) I have counseled others to negotiate how I negotiate, and I’ve never had it happen to them, either. They have always gotten more money.

I’ve seen my boss in the process of hiring people, and he has never had someone on the backburner like that. I have also never personally heard of a hiring manager do something like Scenario 3.

I went back and re-read your OP. Remember, you are not a money-grubbing asshole. You are simply, matter-of-factly aware of your value. They are, too, or they wouldn’t have made the offer. At all points in the negotiation, you are pleasant, grateful, and clear that what you want is for both of you end up in a win-win. They get an awesome employee - you - and you get the most the “market” of this employer will bear. It’s not rude. It’s savvy. And it’s always done with excitement at the prospect of this new opportunity for you both.

Remember two things, no employer worth their salt makes their best offer out of the gate. And, two, they are never going to want you more than they do now. If they have talked money first, then you are in the better position.

At the absolute very least, you must say, “I’ve given your offer a lot of thought, and I am very excited about the opportunity. I do think I bring a lot to the table, and I would ask for xx.” This, at a minimum, should be $1500-2000 per year more. I’d say 2-3k, but I don’t know the job or the industry.

If they say, “What we offered is the best we can do,” then you say. “Thank you. Would you consider and extra week of vacation/an extra personal day/paying a higher percentage of my insurance premium?” If they say no, and you still want the job, then you say, “Thank you for considering it. Your offer of X is fine. I am looking forward to doing great work together!”

It’s a matter of pleasant confidence, all the while making them feel good that you are looking forward to coming to work with them.

12

When I was hired for my last position, I did homework on the average salary for my (proposed) position at salary.com. I used the median range as a base for questions to ask the HR guy. When I was finally hired, my boss and I agreed to an extra $5K/yr based on the salary range for this area.

Although, in this economy, I’m pretty sure I’d take whatever they might offer me.

13

Scenario 4
Me: Thank you very much for your offer of X. I’d like to make a counter offer of X + Y.
Them: Well, we need some time to talk it over and see if we can pay X + Y.
*a few hours later . . . *
Them: We can’t pay X+Y. We can pay X+Z (Z<Y)
You:, Well I guess. (w00t!)

Don’t worry about scenario 3. They will be more interested in you, not the salary number.
Don’t forget, you can always go down in your demand, you can never go up.

14

Don’t say “Well I guess.” As niblet_head stated, you want to be pleasant and confident.

Your response should be something like, “That will be acceptable. I look forward to working with you.”

15

Another vote for not worrying about scenario 3. If it happens (and I’ve never heard of it happening in the real world), then you did indeed dodge a bullet - a hiring manager who will withdraw an offer because you dared to negotiate would not be a pleasant person to work for.

Remember, if they’re making you an offer, it’s because they want you to work for them. You’re Number 1. Number 2 would be settling - they offered you the job over Number 2 for a reason. The worst that would happen is a simple, “No, X is as high as I can go.”

16

Thank you for the advice, everyone. It really made me feel a lot better about this whole process.

And good news! I made a counter offer today, and they ended up giving me $2,000 more per year than their original offer. Like I said, I would have taken the original offer if they told me it was as high as they could go, so an extra $2k feels like a very nice bonus. :slight_smile:

17

Yay! Congratulations.

So, was it as intimidating as you thought it would be?

18

I wouldn’t worry much about Scenario 3 either. If they like you better than the other candidate, they will do what they can to get you, even if that’s merely offering a chance to take X without any increase. Your only danger is that you ask for something unreasonable, which is why doing your homework is important.

I would first ask for the extra money you want. If they won’t give it to you, ask to make it conditional as a raise or a bonus based on a performance evaluation after 3 or 6 months.

That strategy might play out this way:

  1. Company initially offers $45k a year.
  2. You ask for $50k a year.
  3. The company says no and stands by $45k.
  4. You counter offer with “How about if I start at $45k. After 6 months on the job, you evaluate my performance. If I meet [insert objectives that make sense for the field], you give me a raise to $50k.” Or, “… you give me a $2500 bonus.”

This is essentially a win for both sides - the company doesn’t commit to a high salary until they’re sure you’re worth it, and you’re able to get both the job and the salary you want.

19

It actually went pretty smoothly once I got my courage up to ask for more. As you all suggested, it was pretty clear they expected I might make a counter offer. What seems awkward to me is just business as usual to the people doing hiring, I guess.