Negotiating Pay for New Position

In My Humble Opinion
1

Hey guys, so I find myself in an interesting position. I currently work a pretty decent job making pretty decent pay (for someone my age at least). However, while I semi-like where I work, I wouldn’t mind a change of pace and thus applied for a near-identical position at another company. The key difference is that I will have a few more job responsibilities than I do now.

Now, the cool thing is that I don’t need this job. In fact, the only way I’ll take it is if they offer me significantly more than I’m making now, which puts me in the driver’s seat, since I have nothing to lose. I had a phone interview with this company a few days ago, and I think it went pretty well (they said they’d get back to me soon). I have a lot of experience, and they’ve been trying to fill this position for several months.

Now, salary did not come up during said phone-interview, so I am curious as to how I should go about this. I presume they’ll want a face-to-face interview before they choose to hire me – how should I raise the topic. Of course, it’s common knowledge that one doesn’t typically raise this issue during the interview, but I don’t want to accept an offer without knowing what it’s paying – particularly since I’m sitting pretty where I am now.

So how do I go about this? And if they ask how much I want, what do I shoot for (I’m making roughly 45k now)? I mean, I don’t want to low-ball it, nor do I want them to laugh some ridiculous figure I throw out there.

2

Er, that never happens, right? Who in their right mind would accept a job offer without discussing salary?

I’d just wait for them to bring it up. They will, if you get into the last round of interviews. Let them take the lead and discuss it when they want to.

3

Check the local going rate for your gig. You may be surprised to find out that you’re being underpaid or overpaid already. At least you’ll have an “average” to toss around. If you’re good at what you do and can qualify it with tangibles, you have every right to toss out a bigger number.

However, in my experience, companies have a budget for these things and will stick with their number regardless of an applicant’s true worth. This may be why they haven’t filled the spot. But, since you have nothing to lose, shoot high.

4

It’s generally speaking best to let them raise the issue of salary.

Admittedly, I suck at negotiating salary - the last time I went through a job interview, I thought I’d done good, and then my employer unilaterally added 15K/year onto what I’d negotiated for, “to make it match other positions at the same level”.

Be that as it may, a jobhunt consultant told me that there are three basic approaches:

[ul]
[li]The very confident: If salary comes up, you say:“Oh, if we’re already talking money, does that mean I get the job?” and then state your desired number. Puts the ball firmly in their court, but it’s a bit cocky.[/li][li]The less aggressive: “According to XYZ statistics, jobs like the one we’re taking about pay between XXX and YYY. Obviously, we wouldn’t be having this talk if I wasn’t in the top 25% (or 10%) of the talent pool, so I’d of course look at the top end of that range”.[/li][li]For the less confident, like me:“Well, I make around XXX now. Starting over with a new employer is a major undertaking and I’d probably want an X% or so increase to do so.”[/li][/ul]

All that said: If you’re happy in your current job, don’t change for much less than 15-20% extra.

5

You are right, but how in the hell do you get them to name a figure first? All of the interviewers I have dealt with in the last ten years have little answers to put the ball back in your court.

6

I’ve always had to put out a number first, but then again I suck at salary negotiation… Or perhaps I’m really good, what with them upping the figure after the interview? :confused:

7

(emphasis mine) I’m sorry, but this is the most absurd thing I ever heard. I hope this “jobhunt consultant” was not recommending these approaches? The first one, IMO, is a one-way ticket out the front door and your resume going straight to the “round file.” I don’t care how desperate they are, nobody wants to hire a douchebag.

If you are forced to give a number first - which you shouldn’t - the second approach is I guess the most acceptable, being sure to emphasize that you base your number on research in the field. But keep in mind that they may be offering more than average.

It’s a well-known truth that whoever is the first to mention a number loses. Do your research as recommended in these other posts and know both what is a fair wage and what is your personal minimum to consider taking the job. Then make every effort to avoid revealing those numbers until they tell you what they are paying. Your advantage is that you know they have a number - they have to - whereas you can pretend the money isn’t your primary concern. For example:

Them: So, what are your salary requirements?
You: I am primarily concerned with making sure this is a great fit for both of us and after our conversations I feel it could be. What were you thinking as a starting salary?
Them: We determine it commensurate with experience, so it can vary.
You: Of course, so what is the general range?

At that point they either have to tell you, or admit they don’t want to tell you, which would just be weird. You can also deflect the issue by discussing their benefits package and see how it compares to the one at your current job (which could help you determine if it adds more or less value to your potential salary).

8

She sure was.

She (and I) overstated the cocksureness for brevity, but I’ve certainly encountered the tactic in interviews I’ve been sitting in on. Some of the people were top-notch in their field, too. Bottom line: We couldn’t afford them, we learned that reasonably fast without going through a fan dance of “you give a number” - “no, you give a number”, and all involved shook hands and parted ways. (Of course, some were just jerks.)

Oh, don’t go for average. Top 10% (or 25%, or whatever) of the bracket.

And most often, the HR type you’re sitting across from has done this little gambit 10 times that day already. If you can make them come up with a number without coming across like a jerk, good on you. But as you’ve pointed out, the line between “forceful negotiator” and “jerk” is easy to cross.

9

[QUOTE=Rachael RageYou: Of course, so what is the general range?

At that point they either have to tell you, or admit they don’t want to tell you, which would just be weird. [/QUOTE]

Not for me. At that point they tell me that they pay a very competetive market wage, which they are sure is what I am used to making. For example, not to be Too Prying, What am I Making At My Current Position?

Then if I would say that my current position isn’t important, that the future with XYZ company is, then they would say that, of course, the future is most important and to make me happy XYZ company would love to know my current salary for the purpose of ONLY making the relationship more beneficial.

As another poster said, the HR rep has done this a thousand times. Most of us do it a few times. They have the advantage…

10

You’d better get the salary issue sorted out before you waste more time. A position doesn’t stay open for months and months because an employer is paying too much.

11

So if they ask for my current pay, what if I provide them with an inflated about? Tell them I make say 50k or 55k? Can they prove I don’t?

12

Probably not. But they might show you the door when you might have accepted a $48k salary.

Not saying you would, just something to consider…

13

Not sure what field you’re in, I’ve been an IT manager for 20 years.

Don’t lie about your current salary. If you end up working there and they find out later you lied it won’t go well.

Don’t bring it up, I assure you that they will. And it sounds like you’re in your first job–a job offer always includes salary.

Usually I recommend deflecting direct conversation about salary until they come across with an offer, but I’m not so sure in your case. In a case like this I think it’s OK to come and, only after the interview process, respond to questions about salary by naming your figure. You want to make sure that you have a chance to impress them and get them to like you first.

I always ask candidates what salary they are looking for. If they decline to name a figure, I don’t ask again, and make an offer for what their qualifications are worth to me. I just last week made an offer to guy that is 10K over what he’s making now because I think he’s underpaid and I really want to hire him.

(Honestly, though, many managers I know will offer the lowest salary they think someone will actually take, such as a modest increase over their current salary.)

If you don’t get the offer, you can’t negotiate, and if you ask for a salary that’s too high, that could end the game. But in your case, that’s probably OK since you are very definite about what you want.

14

This. Except stop talking after the first sentence and count to three.

I’ve never ever ever given a number first. I always respond with a positive but non-commital answer. Since you don’t need this job, this is an excellent opportunity to practice this - since it sounds like you’re a newbie and a bit uncomfortable with it. It’s not adversarial, it’s expected and in your best interest.

If they come back with a variant of “no, seriously, how much?” you say, “I prefer not to discuss salary until we’ve both decided to move forward. I’m confident we can agree on a figure that balances both our needs.”

Stop talking. Count to three.

15

Thanks for the all the replies guys; it’s some great advice for how to get them to give an exact figure first.

But what if they lowball it, and offer me what I’m making now, or less? How do I negotiate up from there without coming across as too aggressive?

16

First, what do you have to lose?

I have been in that situation quite a few times. I simply say that the job sounds like a great fit, but the offer is lower than what I have been seeing in the market. <Insert the above “count to 3” idea at this point.>

If I am pressed at that point, I will tell them that I am looking at other positions between X and Y and would entertain an offer near the higher end of that range. (X would be my current salary plus what I would consider to be a decent raise for the next year because I figure I would not see a raise for at least a year in a new position. Y would be X plus a decent raise for another year.)

See what they say. Again, that “count to 3” advice is very good.

17

I think that’s good advice.

Also, first thing to do is thank them, tell them that you’re flattered and pleased that they’ve offered you the position.

And since this is an important decision, you’d like 24 hours to think about it.

If they offer you eleventy million you say you’d like 24 hours to think about it.

Then, you come back with a counter. Yes, even if they offer you eleventy million.

If you’re at 41, and they offer you 36, then you say that, while you’re excited at the prospect of working together, the offer isn’t quite what you expected. “Based on our conversations, what I understand of what you’re looking for, and the skills and drive I bring to the table, I believe I’m worth x (or a range, like mid 40’s).”

Then count to… well, you know.

They may come up, they may not. If they come up, but not enough to make it worth it to jump, then don’t make the move. Remember, you have nothing to lose. Another opportunity will come up, and they are never going to want you more than the moment they make an offer. If they aren’t going to put out - or can’t put out - at that point to get you, then you have to decide if it’s worth it. The thing about getting them to give you a number first is to know what kind of organization you’re dealing with. Would you want to work with a company that won’t pay to get talent? Or can’t pay to get talent?

Of course, you can also negotiate other things if they can’t meet your salary req’s, ie - more vacation time, a bonus plan, Tuesdays off at 3:00, or whatever.

18

A lot also depends on what type of job/position you’re applying for. I’ve never done any of my interviews with someone from HR. It’s always been the person directly above the person I’ll be working for. In my current position that means I did all the interviewing with the head of my division. This does make a difference. While my Division manager has done his share of interviews, he’s also very interested in filling a vacant position on his team. An HR person doesn’t really care if the job is filled or vacant. So first step is to know with whom you’re negotiating.

This is what I tell anyone and everyone that ever asks about negotiations for salary. You absolutely do not want to mention a number first. Keep in mind that a lot of companies will send you an employment application for you to fill out to bring to the interview. There will be a section on it about current salary. I always leave that blank. If asked about it, I reply that my current salary is only a small part of my total compensation and that we’ll need to discuss that face-to-face.

I also try never to accept the first offer. Even if you only get another $2 or $3k a year, figure that it puts you one year ahead in raises.

If you absolutely must give a number, I suggest at least 20% more than your current salary.

Good luck!

19

A couple of things to think about.

First, if they seriously lowball it, ask yourself if you want to work for them or not.
They should be reasonably aware of market, and I’d think twice about companies who try to hire people on the cheap. You have to worry about what other problems you’ll run into.

If you are in the market already at a similar position, but with less responsibility, then that should give you a good idea of what you would like to make. Does your experience make you more valuable in the new job? If so, what is a reasonable amount to ask for?

Would you move to the new job for an extra $5k? And extra $3k? I couldn’t see moving for the same amount of money, but YMMV. I would also think that the new company would expect to pay some more for you to go that.

If they were to come back with the same amount, as market value, then you could tell them that you current job is the same amount, but for less responsibilities, and you are hoping to make more.

At that stage, you may be asked how much you want, and this is where a reasonable increase would make it more likely to be hired.

20

UPDATE
Finally, I got the offer! He both emailed me and left a message on my cell-phone, so I haven’t yet contacted him back. It seems to come out to roughly 9k more per year, before taxes, which is in the ballpark (albeit on the lower end) of what I wanted.

But what if I want to hold out for more? What’s the best way to word it, so that while I appreciate their offer, I am looking for a bit more. Also, do I run the risk of losing the offer in the first place by asking for more? I’m hoping that since they’ve been dealing with me for 2-months, they’ll be a bit more willing to meet my demands, otherwise it was a wasted effort.

Your thoughts? (also, should I go ahead and email him with something like “thanks for the offer; I’m going to have to think about it for a day or so before I respond,” or does that tip my hand too much?)