That’s right. It’s a business. So sell me on why the OP should get more money, other than he just feels like he deserves it.
Fair enough. In fact I was hired at my current job while they were in a hiring freeze. But the OP still needs to consider job market conditions if he decides to make a move.
A bad economy and a recession doesn’t affect everyone and every company the same way.
You’ve jumped on me a bit, without knowing enough - like I kind of feel that a good time to negotiate a raise is when I am moving to a higher level, for people who want me for the job, at a company that just announced record earnings for the 5th straight year, and who’s stock as doubled in the last 18 months.
To use your analogy, the trillionaire dictator of your african country is asking you to eat less rice, cause “times are tough” and we have to be careful.
My feeling as well. My industry, and geographical location isn’t really hurting much.
I’m in waiting mode now.
Met with a Sr. Director in the new area and the area VP today for brief interviews, went very well and my potential bosses boss (the VP) told me this process was a “rubber stamp” before an offer.
Both the Sr. Director and the are VP talked a good deal about the culture of their dept, how people tend to come to that dept and stay for long periods of time, they all work together well with little competition and the VP emphasized how he felt it was important to treat his staff fairly and reward appropriately if deserved.
Left me feeling a bit optimistic that perhaps they can push HR on the offer a bit, and the culture sounds good.
We’ll see…
You know better than I do if your company and industry are in a position to offer better raises. All I’m saying is that before you go into the compensation discussion, have as much ammunition as possible. Be able to clearly articulate what you bring to the table to deserve that raise.
I would also check out Glassdoor.com for salary info.
I don’t think there are any trillionares, especially not in Africa. But if you are working for this dictator, you should be able to show him why you should be eating more rice. “Look, I was the warlord who came up with using children as foot soldiers. I increased blood diamond production 20%. I’m twice as loyal as Motumbo.” That sort of stuff.
There are plenty of trillionaires; there just aren’t any in US dollars.
UPDATE
Received the offer from HR yesterday. It was indeed just a % increase over my current salary, and not really what I think the position and my skills are valued at.
I spoke with the hiring manager (potential new boss) this morning, and she is going to talk to HR this afternoon about trying to increase the offer. She was very positive, totally understood where I was coming from, agreed that it is my right and responsibility to get whatever I can get, and would love to offer me more, but had been deferring to HR up to this point.
So, back to waiting mode until this afternoon. I am taking the position no matter what happens, even at the original offer if needed, but feel better that my hesitation in acceptance and inquiry into more money didn’t rub anyone the wrong way (well, it will probably annoy hr, but I don’t really care about them) at all.
more to come…
Then why should they pay you more money?
Yeah, I’m going to go with mssmith on his last comment only. If you’re going to take the position no matter what and people know this, they have you over the barrel and will likely stiff you (assuming that’s the kind of company this is). This is stupid and shortsighted in the part of your company, but it’s not atypical.
Your only choice is to force their hand by declining the offer and staying in your current position. When they find out that no one outside the firm will take the position for what they offered you, you might get another shot at it, or you might not.
Do you know the market rate for the position you’re going to be taking? Are t hey offering you far below it?
I haven’t told them I’m taking the position no matter what, I’m just telling you guys that.
Basically, I find I agree with what most people suggested in this thread - negotiate, see what you can do, but take the promotion in the end and either prove you are worth more later or use the title/experience to jump later.
As for your other questions - yes, they are offering below market and below what others in similar positions in this company are making.
Not exactly sure why mssmith has been jumping all over me this thread, as I don’t really think its unreasonable to want and try to get the best for yourself, but for some reason you think I’m some kind of arrogant asshole because I won’t just take whatever I’m offered, no questions asked.
A bit late, but I’ll respond to this -
Yes - to advance, run a department, senior leadership etc. I am not jumping from rock to rock. I’ve been at the same company for 7 years, steadily being promoted and given more and more responsibility - each time with the position being offered to me proactively. The problem is, when you get promoted multiple times as an internal candidate, using HR’s % increase methods, you start falling further and further behind market rates, until you are basically being taken advantage of. I don’t want to let that happen is all.
**Fat Chance **
**Promotion - Salary **
Unfortunate username OP combo
Bingo.
Always take the promotion…even if NO salary increase.
Do the job well and once you have experience doing it leave for a similar position with real pay.
I have used this in my life.
The only difficulty is that when you interview for a real paying position and they find out your current salary they might think you are lying to them because that position CAN’T pay that low so you must really be lower position x*. However, your experience working that position should come over crystal clear when they interview you.
*This even happened when I left college teaching. I even had the person doing the hiring point blank tell me that I could not have been a real college prof because a college prof wouldn’t pay so low… :(. I got around this by just refusing to give salary histories anymore 
Reminds me of a friend of mine who went back to a company he worked at previously. During the orientation the new hires were told that the company has never had a layoff yet…which confused my friend because he had left the company after being layed off. When he asked about this privately later, he was told that he and the other 5 guys let go wasn’t a lay off :D.
I’m always skeptical of these claims.
My guess (hope) is that Fat Chance hasn’t actually told them he’s accepting the job no matter what.
Woo boy. My bad. Forgot I hadn’t refreshed this thread in awhile.
Another update:
HR wouldn’t move off the original offer. The hiring manager even called HR and asked them, and was told that the offer is in the correct range and nothing can be done. Though I highly doubt it is truly more than the bottom of the range (again, because of my current and past positions I have some insight in to salary ranges at this company that others may not), but short of calling HR liars, I was basically stuck.
The hiring manager was apologetic to me, and assured me that she had full confidence in my ability to perform, and that in the long run I shouldn’t worry. That was a positive sign, and all indications about the department are that this is the truth.
Anyway, I ended up accepting the offer.
The way things are done, and the games that are played leave a bad taste in my mouth, but I’m now moving on and being positive - excited about a new role, new things to learn, and open opportunity either here or someone else down the road.
I don’t think you are an arrogant asshole. I’m just trying to make sense of why you realistically think you can negotiate a higher salary in this market. If you can’t convince me, someone who has no vested interest in whether you get the raise or not, how will you convince your employer?
My advice, now that you have accepted the offer, to you is to look for another job. Either will either find something you like in the salary range you are looking for, or you will realize that you don’t have it so bad where you are and will feel better about it.
You don’t have vested interest in the outcome of the raise, but you clearly have vested interest in the outcome of the discussion.
He already explained that his SPECIFIC knowledge of the company leads him to believe that there is still money on the table. You discounted that in favor of your knowledge of the general market conditions.
If anyone could step into the job without a ramp up period, than the general knowledge is relevant. If the typical 6 month ramp up holds, then the OP has negotiating power. You set that value against the potential money on the table.
If that particular company is doing better than average, then you’re bringing even more value to the table.
Times are uncertain and that sits as a pretty big advantage in negotiations on the other side.
If you make your play right, management will respect you going for all you can get (if they think you’re right about your value to the company). They know that that same aggressiveness will be used on behalf of the company.
Here’s my two cents.
There is always a salary “range” for any position. Those with more experience and knowledge are at the higher end of the range, those with less experience are at the lower end.
If they hired someone from the outside who had, say, 10 years experience as a Senior Manager in the department you are going to, then they’d pay more for that experience.
If they take you, they are familiar with your work ethic and productivity, as a Manager in your own department. They are taking a chance on you, as a new Senior Manager, and in a new department. There will obviously be a learning curve in the beginning, to see if you can handle the promotion. You are experienced with the company, but (correct me if I’m wrong) INEXPERIENCED as a Senior Manager, and INEXPERIENCED in this department. You are not yet worth as much as someone who has already done the job for a few years.
How does the salary they are offering you compare to inexperienced Senior Managers?