The Straight Dope

Go Back   Straight Dope Message Board > Main > Cafe Society

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 08-04-2005, 05:22 PM
Bomzaway Bomzaway is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Costner haters sound off!

Why is there so much hate for Kevin Costner? I think many would agree that Dances with Wolves is pretty darn good film, as is Field of Dreams. But I think Waterworld while not a great film is at least entertaining (up until the Smokers destroy his catamoran), and I really liked The Postman (that Tom Petty cameo never ceases to make me smile). He did okay in Silverado, Bull Durham, JFK, 13 days, A Perfect World, even 3000 Miles to Graceland was okay. Despite some pretty decent work and a good eye for a script, Costner is always given a ration of shit.

Are you a Costner hater? Why?
Reply With Quote
Advertisements  
  #2  
Old 08-04-2005, 05:25 PM
middleman middleman is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
A recent thread of a similar nature.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 08-04-2005, 05:29 PM
The Great Sun Jester The Great Sun Jester is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Can't stand him. The only role I ever appreciated his drab, monotonous, apathetic style in was The Untouchables. But that's only because the character accurately portrayed his acting (non)style. Delivering a line deadpan takes talent. But dude delivers ALL his lines deadpan.

It's like he's trying to deliver all his lines that way on purpose, like he's mocking his craft or something. He's just not very...dynamic. Which is not a problem in and of itself, but he keeps getting ROLES despite being one-dimensional. He's screwing somebody. Well.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 08-04-2005, 05:29 PM
Bomzaway Bomzaway is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Darn! I knew I should have searched first. Never mind. No need to waste everybody's time.

Then again...this IS the internet.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 08-04-2005, 05:34 PM
lhovis73 lhovis73 is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
I think it's just fashionable sometimes to heap scorn on certain celebrities, e.g., not too long ago, there was unanimous and universal agreement that Ben Affleck and Jennifer Lopez's Gigli was the worst movie ever made, even though 90% of the people making this judgment probably hadn't even seen the movie, and it's pretty damn unlikely that it's really that bad (haven't seen it, just a guess). I think Costner is (was) despised because he's perceived as a massive egotist: putting himself in hero roles that he's not really up to playing (esp. Robin Hood, Prince of Thieves). I've seen a lot of Keanu Reeves bashing in these parts, and I don't really get it, for the same reason...

I just saw Costner's Open Range, and thought it was a pretty likable movie (if you like westerns)...
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 08-04-2005, 05:36 PM
middleman middleman is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bomzaway
Darn! I knew I should have searched first. Never mind. No need to waste everybody's time.

Then again...this IS the internet.
Nah. Your thread is different. It is more for why people hate. Mine was more about what people liked.

I just thought you might find the responses interested.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 08-04-2005, 05:37 PM
middleman middleman is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
err...."interesting."
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 08-04-2005, 05:37 PM
MovieMogul MovieMogul is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bomzaway
Why is there so much hate for Kevin Costner? I think many would agree that Dances with Wolves is pretty darn good film, as is Field of Dreams.
Well, you lost me there. DwW has its moments but suffers from its inflated sense of self-importance. And FoD is fine as treacle goes, but that's all it is.
Quote:
But I think Waterworld while not a great film is at least entertaining (up until the Smokers destroy his catamoran), and I really liked The Postman (that Tom Petty cameo never ceases to make me smile).
And our paths continue to get farther apart. Postman, to these eyes, is atrocious and Waterworld a ridiculous snooze.
Quote:
Despite some pretty decent work and a good eye for a script, Costner is always given a ration of shit.

Are you a Costner hater? Why?
I don't hate Costner, but I do hate how success (and a couple Oscars) inflated his ego disproportionate to his actual talent. Bull Durham remains the best film he's ever been in--funny, smart, and original--but ever since he hit it big with DwW, the movies that are the most insufferable are also the ones where he's clearly calling all the shots (you can add The Bodyguard, Robin Hood and 13 Days to that list) or is overtly preening for attention (the tedious Tin Cup, Wyatt Earp and For the Love of the Game). The trailers for Dragonfly, Graceland and Message in a Bottle were unbearable; you couldn't pay me to see the films.

Having been taken down a few pegs, recently (as well as getting demonstrably older) has helped bring back that humility that you saw in those early years. Open Range is the best American western of the last decade and his performance in The Upside of Anger is self-effacing and fun. So there's hope yet...
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 08-04-2005, 05:49 PM
lhovis73 lhovis73 is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inigo Montoya
Can't stand him. The only role I ever appreciated his drab, monotonous, apathetic style in was The Untouchables. But that's only because the character accurately portrayed his acting (non)style. Delivering a line deadpan takes talent. But dude delivers ALL his lines deadpan.

It's like he's trying to deliver all his lines that way on purpose, like he's mocking his craft or something. He's just not very...dynamic. Which is not a problem in and of itself, but he keeps getting ROLES despite being one-dimensional. He's screwing somebody. Well.
This seems to be a common complaint vs. KC...he's just a crappy actor who nevertheless is given loads of attention and plum roles in blockbuster films. But since there are other crappy actors who give only drab, monotonous performances and yet are universally beloved (e.g. Harrison Ford), we've come full circle to the original question: why is KC singled out for abuse?
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 08-04-2005, 06:14 PM
The Great Sun Jester The Great Sun Jester is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Because. I can laugh when Ford delivers a straight line joke.
"Snakes, why'd it have to be snakes"
"Nazis. I hate those guys."
"Who's Scruffy?" (responding to a barrage of insults from Leia in Star Wars)
etc. The guy can deliver a good deadpan. And his face moves when he talks. KC, not so much--dude's a frickin' droid.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 08-04-2005, 06:29 PM
Wakinyan Wakinyan is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by lhovis73
This seems to be a common complaint vs. KC...he's just a crappy actor who nevertheless is given loads of attention and plum roles in blockbuster films. But since there are other crappy actors who give only drab, monotonous performances and yet are universally beloved (e.g. Harrison Ford), we've come full circle to the original question: why is KC singled out for abuse?
Because, as being said, people perceive him and his work as inflated. Harrison Ford is conceived as good guy, he might be your neighbour, brother or uncle, fine ol' carpenter. KC thinks he's Elvis, and he just isn't. The lie irritates.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 08-04-2005, 06:48 PM
NDP NDP is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: PNW USA
Posts: 6,639
Quote:
Originally Posted by lhovis73
I think it's just fashionable sometimes to heap scorn on certain celebrities... . I think Costner is (was) despised because he's perceived as a massive egotist: putting himself in hero roles that he's not really up to playing (esp. Robin Hood, Prince of Thieves). I've seen a lot of Keanu Reeves bashing in these parts, and I don't really get it, for the same reason...
I think the Keanu Reeves-bashing is a bit different because even if you think he's an untalented dolt who's somehow ended up with a successful film career, he still seems likeable. Costner, while also attacked as untalented, just comes across as a conceited prick (especially in the last ten to 12 years). Thus, he's more fun to bash.
Quote:
I don't hate Costner, but I do hate how success (and a couple Oscars) inflated his ego disproportionate to his actual talent.
An inflated ego is definitely brought his days as a top box-office draw to a halt. How else do you explain why he did The Postman--a plodding post-apocalyptic sci-fi epic--right after he dodged a bullet with Waterworld--a plodding post-apocalyptic sci-fi epic.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 08-04-2005, 06:55 PM
Nic2004 Nic2004 is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inigo Montoya
Because. I can laugh when Ford delivers a straight line joke.
"Snakes, why'd it have to be snakes"
"Nazis. I hate those guys."
"Who's Scruffy?" (responding to a barrage of insults from Leia in Star Wars)
etc. The guy can deliver a good deadpan. And his face moves when he talks. KC, not so much--dude's a frickin' droid.
Yeah, but Harrison Ford runs funny. Ever watch how he runs in Star Wars or Clear and Present Danger. Don't get me wrong, I love his work.
But still....





Am I the only one to have noticed this?
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 08-04-2005, 07:20 PM
SlyFrog SlyFrog is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
I would differentiate between Waterworld and The Postman. I think Waterworld was a decent movie. Any chance of most people liking it was destroyed by the press regarding its cost and frequent delays, more than the movie itself.

I just watched The Postman for the first time. While it was not abysmal, it took the mediocre parts of Waterworld and made them worse. It should have ended about an hour before it did. It dragged terribly in places, and had a worse of example of the "Costner - Loner Messiah" syndrome than Waterworld.

Dances with Wolves drove me nuts because I can't stand the, "Indians good, kind, uber-society," portrayal anymore than the, "Angry red savages," portrayal.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 08-04-2005, 07:32 PM
Kaspar Hauser Kaspar Hauser is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2002
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nic2004
Yeah, but Harrison Ford runs funny. Ever watch how he runs in Star Wars or Clear and Present Danger. Don't get me wrong, I love his work.
But still....

Am I the only one to have noticed this?
Hell no, River Phoenix noticed it and used it in Last Crusade!
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 08-04-2005, 08:26 PM
Sir Rhosis Sir Rhosis is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Off topic: I think Ford runs funny because of his bad back, for which, iirc, he's had a couple surgeries over the years.

Now for someone who really runs funny, try Pierce Brosnan: Mr. Arm Pumper, or Leonard Nimoy: Mr. Skinny Awkward Spastic Tripper Over His Own Feet.

On topic: I don't hate Costner as an actor, he's okay, sometimes. Never really great, just okay, has a good self-effacing laugh every now and then.

Sir Rhosis
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 08-04-2005, 08:38 PM
silenus silenus is online now
Hoc nomen meum verum non est.
Charter Member
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: SoCal
Posts: 39,456
IMO, Costner is a journeyman actor, with limited chops, who is a legend in his own mind. If he confined himself to the type of role he had in Bull Durham and Tin Cup, he could make a good living and not make everybody's shit list. Instead, he thinks he is An Actor, and foists dreck like Waterworld, The Postman, and Robin Hood on us. Luckily, we can vote with our wallets and send him back to dinner theater.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 08-04-2005, 08:53 PM
Morbo Morbo is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: 123 Fake Street
Posts: 8,985
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Rhosis
Now for someone who really runs funny, try Pierce Brosnan: Mr. Arm Pumper, or Leonard Nimoy: Mr. Skinny Awkward Spastic Tripper Over His Own Feet.
Of my personal favorite: Steven Seagal, Mr. Run Like A Girl.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 08-04-2005, 09:42 PM
Marley23 Marley23 is offline
I Am the One Who Bans
Moderator
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: New York
Posts: 75,201
I mostly hate Coster because of 13 Days. His accent is typically awful (he's the anti-Streep, when you think about it). It butchers the history of the Cuban Missile Crisis pretty badly, and so much of the action is altered JUST to give Costner's character a place in the scene (and thus a place in history) he did not really occupy. And I seem to recall that in the film, a US spy plane is shot down over Cuba. Had that really happened, there would've been a war and we wouldn't be talking about a "missile crisis."
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 08-04-2005, 09:48 PM
lhovis73 lhovis73 is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Just to clarify my position, I don't think Costner is a great actor or director (in fact, now that I think about it, the list of Costner movies that I've liked is pretty damn short...I will confess to getting a kick out of The Postman, in a bad Star Trek sort of way...). I just think it's strange that he inspires such loathing...
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 08-04-2005, 09:48 PM
Airman Doors, USAF Airman Doors, USAF is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 13,017
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marley23
I mostly hate Coster because of 13 Days. His accent is typically awful (he's the anti-Streep, when you think about it). It butchers the history of the Cuban Missile Crisis pretty badly, and so much of the action is altered JUST to give Costner's character a place in the scene (and thus a place in history) he did not really occupy. And I seem to recall that in the film, a US spy plane is shot down over Cuba. Had that really happened, there would've been a war and we wouldn't be talking about a "missile crisis."
Wow. Talk about misinformed.

I'm sure Major Rudolph Anderson wishes that you were right.

13 Days was a reasonably accurate portrayal, although it took liberties just like any other film.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 08-04-2005, 09:51 PM
lhovis73 lhovis73 is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Airman Doors, USAF
Wow. Talk about misinformed.

I'm sure Major Rudolph Anderson wishes that you were right.

13 Days was a reasonably accurate portrayal, although it took liberties just like any other film.
There's a good joke on The Sopranos about this...Chris says (to paraphrase) "The Cuban Missile Crisis actually happened? I thought it was all bullshit, from that movie with Kevin Costner..."
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 08-04-2005, 10:03 PM
Marley23 Marley23 is offline
I Am the One Who Bans
Moderator
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: New York
Posts: 75,201
Quote:
Originally Posted by Airman Doors, USAF
Wow. Talk about misinformed.

I'm sure Major Rudolph Anderson wishes that you were right.
K, that I was wrong about. Sorry.
Quote:
13 Days was a reasonably accurate portrayal, although it took liberties just like any other film.
Am I wrong that O'Donnell was in a shitload of scenes he would not have actually been in, basically directing the whole Cuban Missile Crisis, which he didn't do? That's what I recall reviews of the film saying.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 08-04-2005, 10:20 PM
Airman Doors, USAF Airman Doors, USAF is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 13,017
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marley23
Am I wrong that O'Donnell was in a shitload of scenes he would not have actually been in, basically directing the whole Cuban Missile Crisis, which he didn't do? That's what I recall reviews of the film saying.
Oh, that is absolutely the truth, but that doesn't change the substance of the movie. A good bit of the dialogue is verbatim, and O'Donnell was given a larger part as a foil for exposition between the Kennedys.

I'm not saying that Costner didn't turn in his usual Howdy Doody type wooden performance, but again, that takes nothing from the overall authenticity.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 08-04-2005, 11:40 PM
Marley23 Marley23 is offline
I Am the One Who Bans
Moderator
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: New York
Posts: 75,201
Quote:
Originally Posted by Airman Doors, USAF
Oh, that is absolutely the truth, but that doesn't change the substance of the movie. A good bit of the dialogue is verbatim, and O'Donnell was given a larger part as a foil for exposition between the Kennedys.

I'm not saying that Costner didn't turn in his usual Howdy Doody type wooden performance, but again, that takes nothing from the overall authenticity.
I felt it did, because all of a sudden, actions the Kennedys took during the crisis are credited to Costner's character. Since he produced the thing, it just struck me as tremendously self-serving. Maybe it's a quibble. I don't know if you would know what I meant if I said the whole thing felt like a "Mary Sue"...
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 08-05-2005, 01:01 AM
Waterman Waterman is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Richland
Posts: 841
As an actor under another person as director I think Costner has done some fine work including such gems as Bull Durham and Field of Dreams. As director (and I believe producer) Costner has done some incredibly self-indulgent movies of which Dances With Wolves is one of the worst (someone should have told him that being on the screen every single second is not necessary).

If I may, Field of Dreams will always hold a special place in my heart for some very "different" reasons. My wife was dying of ALS at the time that the movie came out and it was truly an inspiration for her and something (that I'm not even sure about now after some 13 years) just clicked to the point where we visited the farm where the movie was shot. Later my wife went there with our kids and the entire cast was there and Kevin's attention to my wife was truly a "nice" gesture on his part.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 08-05-2005, 10:17 AM
Anaamika Anaamika is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inigo Montoya
his drab, monotonous, apathetic style [/U].
Sorry I'm late to this thread, but I just saw it.

IM said it best, right away. He's so boring. No personality, a big old cold fish. Blag.

Quote:
Sir Rhosis}Now for someone who really runs funny, try Pierce Brosnan: Mr. Arm Pumper
Don't you make fun of Pierce Brosnan!
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 05-31-2012, 01:33 AM
The Coffee Drinker The Coffee Drinker is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2012
Three cheers for Kevin Costner aka "Captain Wimpy!" Then again, maybe not! ROFLOL!

Last edited by The Coffee Drinker; 05-31-2012 at 01:33 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 05-31-2012, 07:50 AM
Barkis is Willin' Barkis is Willin' is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
I'm a big Costner fan. I thought he was fantastic along with William Hurt in Mr. Brooks. Besides that and others mentioned in this thread, No Way Out was also suspensefully entertaining. So yeah, I also don't get all the Costner hate.

Last edited by Barkis is Willin'; 05-31-2012 at 07:52 AM.. Reason: Don't recall any Costner zombie films...
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:22 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

Send questions for Cecil Adams to: cecil@chicagoreader.com

Send comments about this website to: webmaster@straightdope.com

Terms of Use / Privacy Policy

Advertise on the Straight Dope!
(Your direct line to thousands of the smartest, hippest people on the planet, plus a few total dipsticks.)

Publishers - interested in subscribing to the Straight Dope?
Write to: sdsubscriptions@chicagoreader.com.

Copyright 2013 Sun-Times Media, LLC.