Is Bush stupid or malignant? I can't decide.

[Biggirl]

http://www.1010wins.com/pages/11211.php

Or comical third option.

"No one could have predicted. . ." What a fucking disaster of a President he is.

[Biggirl]

Moody's Mood! Holy shit! Oh yes. Please, make-over come and fix his distracting teeth!

[Biggirl]

Originally Posted by Biggirl

Moody's Mood! Holy shit! Oh yes. Please, make-over come and fix his distracting teeth!

See! I am insane with rage!



Wrong thread.

[eleanorigby]

I think he is perhaps malignantly stupid (malevolently?). Or stupidly malicous.

Or just completely in his own little world, out of touch with the vast majority of Americans and the rest of the world.

Since this WH is proud of it's tightly knit lil clusterfuck, most likely reality checks don't come his way much, if at all.

[The Hamster King]

A little of both. He would probably be smart enough to be President if he was willing to work harder, but he's never had to work for anything his entire life so he probably doesn't know how. He covers his inadequacies with bluster and his family has enough money and clout that no one has ever called him on it. He was probably salvagable as a human being back in his 20's if he'd been put in a position where he'd had to fend for himself, but instead he was allowed to live the playboy lifestyle until he was 40 and by then the patterns of laziness and fecklessness had set. He's a small, mean thing, scared of being found out for the fraud he feels like in his heart. That's why he can never, ever admit that he was wrong, even if it means that the United States will be harmed as a result or brave men will die for no reason. History will judge him harshly, both as a man and a leader, for, in truth, he is neither.

[Biggirl]

I like the way he sings. He's cross-eyed and I don't think the make-over will help that. Plus, he skeeves me and I don't know why.

[Sal Ammoniac]

Originally Posted by Biggirl

See! I am insane with rage!



Wrong thread.

Well, I'm in the right thread at least. All right, here's my take on George W. I don't think he's either stupid or malignant. I actually feel like he's a pretty ordinary person. But he has a fatal flaw: a complete lack of intellectual curiosity. He believes what he believes, and is not in the habit of doubting himself or whatever received ideas he's taken on over the years. This kind of intellectual sclerosis is a terrible trait in a president, if you ask me. I know -- and undoubtedly you know -- plenty of non-presidential people like this. They're typically people in sales positions who drive SUVs and like to watch golf on television. They're okay people to be around, though it's not like you're going to discuss the 19th-century French novel with them. Or even the Kurdish problem.

[John Mace]

It's interesting how much of a big deal is being made of this. It's all over the news.

What exactly did the guy on the tape say:

I don't think anyone can predict with any confidence whether the levies will be topped or not.

That's a paraphrase from what I heard on the news just now. How is that a prediction that the levies would break?

Originally Posted by biggirl

"No one could have predicted. . ." What a fucking disaster of a President he is.

You should be more careful with quotes. What he said was:

"I don't think anyone anticipated the breach of the levees,"

How is that inconsistent with what the guy said on the tape?

[Zoe]

John Mace quoting President Bush, "I don't think anyone anticipated the breach of the levees."

What Mayfield said to the President beforehand: ""I don't think any model can tell you with any confidence right now whether the levees will be topped or not but that is obviously a very, very grave concern."

John, his grave concern was about the levees breaking, not about their not breaking. Mayfield anticipated the breach of the levees.

Any denial is sinking as low as the levees did.

[LouisB]

They're typically people in sales positions who drive SUVs and like to watch golf on television.

I think George Bush would have been a good used car salesman. I can easily picture him wearing white pants, white shoes, a short sleeved shirt and sunglasses; standing in the used car lot, matching quarters with the other salesmen. I think that would have pure heaven for him and he probably would have done well at it.

[John Mace]

Hey, I'm not really defending Bush here. I think we all know that he and FEMA fucked up in Katrina. But what is the point of parsing these soundbytes?

What Bush said is technically correct, so what's the big fucking deal. Did someone anticipate (ie, know) that the levees would be topped? Who knows. The point is, they should have been prepared for it. The levees were only built to withstand a Cat 3 hurricane. Katrina, while technically a Cat 3 when it hit NOLA, was a Cat 5 hurricane. 5 > 3. Do the math. Everyone should have expected that the levees might fail, even if no one predicted that they would.

[Patty O'Furniture]

Originally Posted by Zoe

What Mayfield said to the President beforehand: ""I don't think any model can tell you with any confidence right now whether the levees will be topped or not but that is obviously a very, very grave concern."

John, his grave concern was about the levees breaking, not about their not breaking. Mayfield anticipated the breach of the levees.

Was it a grave and gathering concern? Cuz I don't think he's technically responsible unless the word "gathering" was in there somewhere.

[John Mace]

Well, lessez le bon temps roulle, or however you spell it. Let the Bush bashing begin!! But you know what I find worrisome in this whole New Orleans fiasco? We're still only rebuilding the levees back to where they were. And that's if we're really lucky and we finish on time for the next big hurricane. You'd have to be nuts to live in New Orleans, and you'd have to have a death wish to live in the parts that are below sea level.

We have our collective heads up our assess about the livability of that city. I'm sorry, but this is just like the nuts out here in CA who lose their houses in mudlsides and then build another one on the same hill. If you know anything about the ecology of the Mississippi delta in the area of New Orleans, you'd get your ass out of there and find some place to live that isn't going to be underwater within the next few decades.

[GIGObuster]

Originally Posted by John Mace

Hey, I'm not really defending Bush here. I think we all know that he and FEMA fucked up in Katrina. But what is the point of parsing these soundbytes?

What Bush said is technically correct, so what's the big fucking deal. Did someone anticipate (ie, know) that the levees would be topped? Who knows. The point is, they should have been prepared for it. The levees were only built to withstand a Cat 3 hurricane. Katrina, while technically a Cat 3 when it hit NOLA, was a Cat 5 hurricane. 5 > 3. Do the math. Everyone should have expected that the levees might fail, even if no one predicted that they would.

The joke last year was that even a clay doll was smarter than the president:

http://onegoodmove.org/1gm/1gmarchiv...l_for_pre.html

Mr. Bill for president!

[NurseCarmen]

A bit of a smoking gun eh? Nobody forsaw the levees, huh?

[NurseCarmen]

The most amazing thing about the clip is that Brownie actually looked like knew what he was talking about. I still think he's a putz of major proportions, but it certainly has introduced into my mind that possibly he is just the scape goat.

[Sublight]

Originally Posted by That man

"I don't think anyone anticipated the breach of the levees."

Originally Posted by John Mace

What Bush said is technically correct, so what's the big fucking deal. Did someone anticipate (ie, know) that the levees would be topped? Who knows.

"Drowning New Orleans" Scientific American, Oct. 2001
http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?cha...5883414B7F0000

"They Saw It Coming" NYT, Sept. 2 2005, Mark Fischetti, Author of the above SA article
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/02/op...724b88&ei=5070
"By the late 1990's, scientists at Louisiana State University and the University of New Orleans had perfected computer models showing exactly how a sea surge would overwhelm the levee system"

Granted, if one starts every statement with some variant of "I think," then everything one says would technically be correct. But yes, someone certainly did anticipate the breach of the levees. Many someones, in fact, who published many reports detailing what would happen.

[John Mace]

And of course we know now that the levees did not overflow. The water punched thru (or whatever the technical term is) below the top.

[Biffy the Elephant Shrew]

Originally Posted by NurseCarmen

A bit of a smoking gun eh? Nobody forsaw the levees, huh?

Did they expect the Spanish Inquisition?

[GIGObuster]

Originally Posted by John Mace

And of course we know now that the levees did not overflow. The water punched thru (or whatever the technical term is) below the top.

Bush was not dealing with overflow:

"I don't think anyone anticipated the breach of the levees."

http://www.wordreference.com/definition/breach

breach
A noun
1 breach

a failure to perform some promised act or obligation

2 rupture, breach, break, severance, rift, falling out

3 breach
an opening (especially a gap in a dike or fortification)

Webster:

2 a : a broken, ruptured, or torn condition or area b : a gap (as in a wall) made by battering

[elelle]

Biggirl , I think the crux of the biscuit term might be Delusional, whose province lies smack dab on the hindquarters region of Stupid and Malignorant; so, the lack of compassionate foresight.

[Spacekat]

People, I tell you this: go back and look at the gubernatorial debates when he was running for election in Texas. His comments were sharp and to the point. None of this "aw shucks" demeanor. No deliberate misunderstandings or charming little self-effacing side-tracks. Far, far less drawl. Any appearance of harmlessness in his current guise is 100% orchestrated. Don't buy it!

If there were a STUPID equivalent of "crazy like a fox," it would apply to this guy. Though this be idiocy, yet there is method in 't. Malignant all the way.

Might I say that I recently left the military, and one of the great delights of my civilian life is that I can no longer be sent to jail for criticizing the Commander in Chief. Boy do I have great timing.

[SteveG1]

Originally Posted by John Mace

And of course we know now that the levees did not overflow. The water punched thru (or whatever the technical term is) below the top.

That's even worse than simply overflowing. With an overflow, there is still enough structural integrity to hold most of the water. When there is a breach, the failure is far worse. It's a complete failure, and the more water rushes out, the more structure it takes with it.

I read the articles but didn't watch the video yet. It's late and I'm feeling lazy.

[Zoe]

John MaceWhat Bush said is technically correct, so what's the big fucking deal. Did someone anticipate (ie, know) that the levees would be topped? Who knows.

John, Webster's first definition of anticipate is "to give advance thought, discussion or treatment to." Mayfield and Brown both expressed concern about the possibility of a problem with the levees in the video that I saw. So President Bush was dishonest once again when he said that no one anticipated that the levees might be breached. He definitely was not "technically correct."

And I am not "parsing these soundbytes." A presidential conferences with advisors is not a soundbyte. I studied "parsing," thank you, and I have every right to view and hear that tape and draw conclusions based on what was said during and afterwards. Surely you are not claiming that the tape was altered to make it appear that the possibility of a breach was introduced.

New Orleans is unique. People who love her can no more image not having a New Oreleans that the Northeast can image no New York City or no Boston. What would California be without San Francisco? Too many cultures are rooted in New Orleans. Some people feel about her the way that other do about Washington D.C. Does that help you to understand? It is more than just another city. And you can't argue that out of our systems.

Those feelings can be ignored at the peril of those foolish enough to make such a choice. The repercussion will be felt for a long, long time. Or the levees can be rebuilt eventually to be strong enough to withstand a Monster Hurricane. All it takes is a president realizing there is money to be made off of it.

I have not been one to do a lot of piling on with Bush -- except for one short semi-joke Bush bashing thread. Bush's denial this time is as transparent as a eight year old who gets into an argument with a sibling and keeps saying "Did not." I am sick to death of that sort of worrisome dishonesty that is usually left behind in middle school!

[Digital Stimulus]

Originally Posted by Sal Ammoniac

I actually feel like he's a pretty ordinary person. But he has a fatal flaw: a complete lack of intellectual curiosity. He believes what he believes, and is not in the habit of doubting himself or whatever received ideas he's taken on over the years. This kind of intellectual sclerosis is a terrible trait in a president, if you ask me.

But, but...you could sit down and drink a beer with him. Surely, that's the be-all and end-all of qualifications for president!

At least, that's what I heard last election cycle...

[Gatopescado]

Originally Posted by Biffy the Elephant Shrew

Did they expect the Spanish Inquisition?

Noooobody expects the Spanish Inquistion! Our Chief Weapon is Surprise! Surprise and Fear!

[Updike]

Here's an idea. Let's make "Bush is stupid and malignant" a sticky in every forum. Maybe then we could avoid such wankfests as this thread?

Just a thought.

[HPL]

Originally Posted by Gatopescado

Noooobody expects the Spanish Inquistion! Our Chief Weapon is Surprise! Surprise and Fear!

You forgot about our fantical devotion to the pope, Heretic!

Biggles, Fetch.......THE RACK!

[Digital Stimulus]

Originally Posted by Updike

Here's an idea. Let's make "Bush is stupid and malignant" a sticky in every forum. Maybe then we could avoid such wankfests as this thread?

Just a thought.

I'd be happy if you'd take to sporting one on your forehead.

Just a thought. (Hmm...now, where did I put that staple gun?)

[John Mace]

Originally Posted by Zoe

John, Webster's first definition of anticipate is "to give advance thought, discussion or treatment to." Mayfield and Brown both expressed concern about the possibility of a problem with the levees in the video that I saw. So President Bush was dishonest once again when he said that no one anticipated that the levees might be breached. He definitely was not "technically correct."

And I am not "parsing these soundbytes." A presidential conferences with advisors is not a soundbyte. I studied "parsing," thank you, and I have every right to view and hear that tape and draw conclusions based on what was said during and afterwards. Surely you are not claiming that the tape was altered to make it appear that the possibility of a breach was introduced.

New Orleans is unique. People who love her can no more image not having a New Oreleans that the Northeast can image no New York City or no Boston. What would California be without San Francisco? Too many cultures are rooted in New Orleans. Some people feel about her the way that other do about Washington D.C. Does that help you to understand? It is more than just another city. And you can't argue that out of our systems.

Those feelings can be ignored at the peril of those foolish enough to make such a choice. The repercussion will be felt for a long, long time. Or the levees can be rebuilt eventually to be strong enough to withstand a Monster Hurricane. All it takes is a president realizing there is money to be made off of it.

I have not been one to do a lot of piling on with Bush -- except for one short semi-joke Bush bashing thread. Bush's denial this time is as transparent as a eight year old who gets into an argument with a sibling and keeps saying "Did not." I am sick to death of that sort of worrisome dishonesty that is usually left behind in middle school!

Look. We can sit hear an argue all night about dictionary definitions. So what? Bush made an off the cuff coment, and he probably didn't know what he was talking about. Did Bush consider every possible dictionary definiton of the words he used, plus all the possible words someone might have said to him? Probably not.

What exaclty do you want to conclude from this soundbyte that we weren't able to conclude before? If Bush was giving testimony under oath, then maybe there would be some value in picking apart the semantics of his every utterance. So, go ahead and wage this semantic war if you want. Enjoy.

[Sophistry and Illusion]

Originally Posted by Chertoff

Are there any DOD assets that might be available? Have we reached out to them?'

Oh, goody--somebody call Cervaise! His favorite bit of bureau-speak is in use!

[Marley23]

Originally Posted by NurseCarmen

The most amazing thing about the clip is that Brownie actually looked like knew what he was talking about. I still think he's a putz of major proportions, but it certainly has introduced into my mind that possibly he is just the scape goat.

I think you've got that right. He had no business holding the job he had, but he was still scapegoated- plenty of other people fucked up royally without getting the treatment he (deservingly) received.

[Voyager]

Originally Posted by John Mace

Look. We can sit hear an argue all night about dictionary definitions. So what? Bush made an off the cuff coment, and he probably didn't know what he was talking about. Did Bush consider every possible dictionary definiton of the words he used, plus all the possible words someone might have said to him? Probably not.

What he said wouldn't matter if it weren't for the fact that the actions of the White House matched them so well. Anyone near a levee anticipates a breach. (They're worried as hell about the ones in Central California now.) But instead of saying that they should have had plans, Bush excuses himself, and says that they couldn't have done better, by saying that no one could have anticpated the breach. Just like he said no one could have anticipated 9/11. Or the Iraq insurgency.

Any leader worth anything needs to deal with worst case situations, not hope for the best. Not doing so is criminal negligence, in that it gets people killed - and Bush has certainly gotten a lot of people killed by the inaction of him and those who report to him.

[NinetyWt]

Right .. my problem does not lie in the fact that Bush doesn't understand the levee system. My problem lies in that he doesn't trust the people who DO understand them. A proper statesman would have said "Let me get with my engineers on this" rather than making comments off the cuff.

And, by the way, the levee in the canal failed by circular slip-plane failure; Mohr's circle to be more exact. Which can happen to any levee which is secured by sheet-piles or other vertical walls.

[Pope Bob The Pious]

I am sort of curious: Why all this irrational finger-pointing at President Bush, while Ray 'Make it Chocolate' Nagin drops off the radar? It is Nagins city, after all.

[Siege]

Oh, Nagin got Pitted over that comment when he made it. The thing is, what Ray Nagin does isn't going to have any more than a minimal impact on me or my life. What Bush does will affect my life.

I've said it before. I don't think Bush is stupid, nor will I call him "malignant". I do think he's deliberately out of touch with ordinary people in this country, and I suspect he surrounds himself with people who only tell him what he wants to hear.

CJ

[RTFirefly]

Originally Posted by John Mace

Look. We can sit hear an argue all night about dictionary definitions. So what? Bush made an off the cuff coment, and he probably didn't know what he was talking about. Did Bush consider every possible dictionary definiton of the words he used, plus all the possible words someone might have said to him? Probably not.

What exaclty do you want to conclude from this soundbyte that we weren't able to conclude before? If Bush was giving testimony under oath, then maybe there would be some value in picking apart the semantics of his every utterance. So, go ahead and wage this semantic war if you want. Enjoy.

John, you're the one who picked this semantic fight. It doesn't take a semantician to see that Bush was ducking responsibility by saying his people couldn't have seen this disaster coming. It was what nonsemanticians call a lie.

One can try to BS one's way out of that with semantic arguments, but that's the only role they have here.

[Pope Bob The Pious]

Originally Posted by Siege

Oh, Nagin got Pitted over that comment when he made it. The thing is, what Ray Nagin does isn't going to have any more than a minimal impact on me or my life. What Bush does will affect my life.

I've said it before. I don't think Bush is stupid, nor will I call him "malignant". I do think he's deliberately out of touch with ordinary people in this country, and I suspect he surrounds himself with people who only tell him what he wants to hear.

CJ

President Bush's decision to appoint Brown to FEMA was spectacularly stupid, given Browns total lack of experience in the field, and he should be taken to task for it. But it's not like New Orleans implemented their wonderful disaster plans, and it was only FEMA that was slow to the scene.

New Orleans mayors were the ones who ignored the years and years (stretching back at least to our previous President) of warning about those levies, and what would happen if they broke. If you were the mayor of Gonnafloodsville, shouldn't it be your highest priority to address that potentially city-destroying issue? The major of New Orleans should have been the one telling FEMA what specifically they would need in the event of a catastrophic flood, rather than waiting around until after things went to hell, then pouting on televison. Unless, of course, we begin Federalizing various aspects of city management.

[elfkin477]

I've been trying to figure this out since yesterday: does the media think we're all retarded or that we all have long-term memory problems? It was all over the news the Saturday before the storm hit that they were worried about the levees not holding in a catogory five storm. Every news report that weekend expressed grave concern that NOL was going to be flooded. This wasn't a surprise storm for anyone; the biggest surprise was that it was down-graded from a predicted cat-5 storm that they'd been anticipating before the storm hit.

If the "common man" was hearing this every fucking time they turned on the news, why the hell would anyone think that Bush and Fema didn't know? They knew, the assholes in charge in Louisana and New Orleans knew...and they all dropped the damn ball. That all concerned fucked up is not news, it's a sad fact.

[Mellivora capensis]

Originally Posted by Sal Ammoniac

...and like to watch golf on television....

Oi, what you got against golf?

[BobLibDem]

Is Bush stupid or malignant? I'm not sure they're mutually exclusive.

Let's forget the warning about the levees for a moment. For me, the telling things are:

1) Bush did not ask a single question. We've never accused Bush of being inquisitive, but when faced with a disaster of this magnitude one would hope that the president would have a few questions to ask.

2) Bush said "we are fully prepared." Clearly this was not the case. I think that Bush doesn't see his job to make sure we are fully prepared, he sees his job as saying we are fully prepared. I'm getting a refrain here: We are fully prepared, mission accomplished, we will be greeted as liberators.... We have a president who thinks that saying warm fuzzy things makes them true and no other action is required on his part.

[Fear Itself]

Originally Posted by John Mace

And of course we know now that the levees did not overflow. The water punched thru (or whatever the technical term is) below the top.

The U.S. Geological Survey begs to differ

Most of the levee failures were caused by overtopping, as the storm surge rose over the top of a levee and scoured out the base of the landward embankment or floodwall.

This is not to say that most of the damage came from the overflow, but from the failure caused by the overflow. But they did overflow.

[Biggirl]

I see that John Mace has come up with the third, comical option. The "these are not the 'droids you are looking for" option. The "pay no attention to the man behind the curtain" option.

I'm quite surprised by this since John never struck me as a knee-jerker.

[tdn]

Originally Posted by Siege

I've said it before. I don't think Bush is stupid, nor will I call him "malignant". I do think he's deliberately out of touch with ordinary people in this country, and I suspect he surrounds himself with people who only tell him what he wants to hear.

That doesn't exactly make him smart and benign.

[Sal Ammoniac]

Originally Posted by Spacekat

People, I tell you this: go back and look at the gubernatorial debates when he was running for election in Texas. His comments were sharp and to the point. None of this "aw shucks" demeanor. No deliberate misunderstandings or charming little self-effacing side-tracks. Far, far less drawl. Any appearance of harmlessness in his current guise is 100% orchestrated. Don't buy it!

I've heard this notion before, sometimes coupled with the idea that his post-gubernatorial performance suggests early-onset Alzheimer's. I can't say personally, not having any way to go back and look at his earlier debates. But it wouldn't surprise me if he were both less sharp and more orchestrated than he used to be. Perhaps the word is "overcoached." Relentlessly staying on message can take a toll on a guy who was used to a more freewheeling style before. From a Wall Street Journal article with the fetching title "Juggling Too Many Tasks Could Make You Stupid," I read the following: "'There's scientific evidence that multitasking is extremely hard for somebody to do, and sometimes impossible,' says David Meyer, a psychology professor at the University of Michigan. Chronic high-stress multitasking also is linked to short-term memory loss."

So rather than "stupid" or "malignant," maybe I'll choose "maladapted."

[ralph124c]

Although I am not a Bush fan, i don't think he is due all the criticism that has come his way. First : "Crackpipe" ray Nagine ("I ain't one of them drug addicts"): where the hell does this guy get off? He has a levee committee, and a city engineer. all of them knew that the city was only a heartbeat awy from being flooded. Did they stockpile any emergency supplies? No. did they have ANY plan to use the citie's 3000 school buses to evacuate the lederly , hospital patients, etc. NO! Did they even have sandbags stockpiled (in areas where the levees were likely to break):NO! The same bumbling incompetence was eveident at the state government. So, yes, Bush and brown bear some blame. But the totally corrupt, incompetent city and state government should get 99% of the blame.

[Hentor the Barbarian]

Originally Posted by Biggirl

I'm quite surprised by this since John never struck me as a knee-jerker.

I didn't either, but his MO over several issues recently is to play the role of disinterested, yet precision-obsessed, observer. This means that one launches a semantic attack on the word "anticipate." One demands an empirical evaluation to determine whether or not the press has been failing to do its job, or dismisses the official documents of British government officials because they merely reflect one opinion, or dismisses Fox's "upside to the Iraq civil war?" captions because we do not know whether the context of the discussion would merit consideration of the goodness of a civil war in Iraq.

All the while disavowing any partisan interests or apologistic intentions. Nay, he is merely partisan on behalf of methodology! That is his passion!

Bullshit, you say? Do you have data to prove that?

[Biggirl]

Katrina was a major fuck up on all sides. But this tape has nothing to do with Nagin or local officials or anything else. This tape shows Bush being a big fucking liar. This tape shows Bush hearing, in no uncertain terms, that a disaster of major porportions was coming. He was warned not only that the levees would most likely fail but also that the Superdome was not a fit place to house people.

Two days later he had the unmitigated gall to tell the American people that no one could have anticipated that the levees would fail. How is it that people can call for the head of a president that lied about his sex life but the president that lies about a disaster that killed thousands gets "but what about the locals?"

It is true. This fucker could eat a baby on live TV and people will blame the baby for being so pink and tender.

[John Mace]

Originally Posted by Biggirl

Katrina was a major fuck up on all sides. But this tape has nothing to do with Nagin or local officials or anything else. This tape shows Bush being a big fucking liar. This tape shows Bush hearing, in no uncertain terms, that a disaster of major porportions was coming. He was warned not only that the levees would most likely fail but also that the Superdome was not a fit place to house people.

Emphasis added.

What specific quote do you have from someone who said the levees would most likely fail. If you're going to Pit Bush over what he said in response to what other people said, at least quote the peopel accurately. If you have to misquote them, then you either don't know what you're talking about, or you have no confidence in your claims.

[Plynck]

After looking at the video, I came in to make the same point as John Mace, but perhaps for a different reason. The advisors expressed the possibility of the water topping the levees, and Bush stated that no one could have anticipated that the water would breach the levees. While the White House can't dodge the fact that they were fully aware of the potential magnitude of the storm and failed in their emergency procedures, they can at least hide behind the fact that this was technically not a lie.

And Brown does come off as competent, which was a pleasant surprise. Given his recent slapfight with Chertoff, I wouldn't be surprised if Brown was behind releasing this video to help to restore his tarnished reputation. This tends to support that the incompetence occurred higher up the chain of command.

Originally Posted by Sal Ammoniac

All right, here's my take on George W. I don't think he's either stupid or malignant. I actually feel like he's a pretty ordinary person. But he has a fatal flaw: a complete lack of intellectual curiosity.

I heard a recent interview with Mike Wallace, and this was precisely his take on Bush. And "intellectual sclerosis" is a perfect description.

Updike, not all Bush bashing is Republican bashing. I'll admit that I am as liberal and Democrat as they get, but I wouldn't bash McCain even though I disagree with a lot of what he supports. (Okay, a little, but just because he's a pol.) I'll bash his platform with glee, however. But I am continually surprised at those who continue to believe that Bush is competent. And I am amazed at his support among the elderly and the economically disadvantaged; people who will only suffer if his policies were to be fully implemented.

Pope Bob: Knock it off. Since when are mayors in charge of FEMA?