Ultimate Avengers

[gerb]

Just got done watching The Ultimate Avengers DVD. It wasn't too bad. I must admit
I am very tolerant of retcon for the sake a movie as long as it stays true to the
"Spirit" of the original story or character origin.
There were a few things that bothered me. Although I have not regularly read comics for some time, I always thought there was one cardinal rule especially where
Marvel was concerned.

SPOILER:

- Anyone can come back from the dead. Except Bucky!!

I Know Marvel has done a few relaunches and made some changes but...

SPOILER:

- Is Nick Fury now younger and blacker?

Please share your thoughts if you have seen it and feel free to bring me up to speed on the current day Avengers.

[cckerberos]

Ultimate Avengers is based upon The Ultimates, the Ultimate Marvel Universe version of the Avengers. That's why characters and details are different; it's a completely different universe's version of the characters.

(btw, Marvel has broken that cardinal rule)

[Kamino Neko]

First thing to remember about Ultimate Avengers - it's not the Avengers. That's a crazy bit of marketting by Marvel. It's the Ultimates. The Ultimates are the analogues of the Avengers in the Ultimate universe. They are different, though similar characters. Nick Fury is a black man, and Bucky never died. (Also, over in Ultimate X-Men, Collossus is gay, and Sabertooth is Wolverine's son.)

Unfortunately, the story and characters, while bearing a striking resemblance to The Ultimates volume 1, has ditched a lot of the flavour of the Ultimates which is rather a more brutal title than Avengers.

I only got through part of it - about to the introduction of the Pyms - and, then I realised I was halfway through, and Thor and Hulk hadn't appeared, and the Skrull had hardly been mentioned, so it wasn't going to end well, and wrote it off as a wasted investment. Ah well, live and learn, yes?

[Askia]

It's not enough that Ultimate Nick Fury be a black man. Does he sound like Samuel L? That alone would be investment enough for me.

[Kamino Neko]

Originally Posted by Askia

It's not enough that Ultimate Nick Fury be a black man. Does he sound like Samuel L? That alone would be investment enough for me.

No, he doesn't. Doesn't look a lot like him, either.

[Ranchoth]

Y'know, I'm kinda suprised it took this long for someone to bring thing one up.

All in all, as an adaption of Ultimates, not great. As a movie, not great.

For American TV animation, however...not too bad. Would have been nice as a series pilot. (Some mild profanity, Swastika-Wearing Nazis, onscreen deaths and injuries, heroes actually shooting and killing people, the word "God" used a couple of times—for the US, that's damn near revolutionary. )

And they seem to be using the X-Men: Evolution art design again (the eyebrows are a big tipoff), which was a nice surprise. The Operation: Rebirth chamber even looked a lot like the one seen in X-Men—Evo. Too much of a continuity and popularity difference for any chance of a direct crossover in the future, though, I'd guess.

And...forgive my saying so, but Cap had no personality. At all. Not written, and not as acted.* Apparently the voice actor they went with was cheaper than hiring a guy with an electrolarynx.

Some pretty solid acting for some of the others, though—especially Banner. Gads, he was a riot.

*Prime candidate for the Democratic ticket in '08 then, I guess. Ow! C'mon, I'm kidding! Don't hit—I vote Democrat!

[RikWriter]

Originally Posted by Askia

It's not enough that Ultimate Nick Fury be a black man. Does he sound like Samuel L? That alone would be investment enough for me.

No, he sounds like Andre Ware, former Detroit Lions QB.

[Love Rhombus]

A weird little change: in the Ultimates title, Thor has a mustache and beard. In the movie he does not. Discuss.

[Xan]

Originally Posted by RikWriter

No, he sounds like Andre Ware, former Detroit Lions QB.

It is Andre Ware

[RikWriter]

Originally Posted by Xan

It is Andre Ware

Wow, guess I have a good ear!

[Love Rhombus]

Originally Posted by RikWriter

Wow, guess I have a good ear!

What, are you Van Gough?

[Xan]

Originally Posted by Love Rhombus

What, are you Van Gough?

No, then Rik would only have one ear.

[Love Rhombus]

Well, yes, he only mentioned one, so.....

*sigh* yet another step towards fame on the SDMB and I used it for this terrible semi-joke.

[B. Serum]

Originally Posted by gerb

SPOILER:

- Anyone can come back from the dead. Except Bucky!!

Actually, he undied in mainstream Marvel continuity as well. See Winter Soldier

[D_Odds]

Not worth a new thread, and still young enough for a revival...

For this they pre-empted another JLU? Marvel afraid of a better scripted, better acted (usually), better written and even better drawn comic? I would think that Time Warner would want to showcase the two back-to-back.

Can't remember - did Cap's headpiece still have the chin strap. I didn't like the Hulk picking up Mjolnir, but it fits in the Ultimate universe (or does it...that question is still open).

I really, really disliked Cap punching the Hulk and the Hulk reacting. Granted, it didn't hurt him, but Hulk shouldn't even notice. And how did they pierce his skin with that needle. It's been awhile, but didn't they have to administer the drugs orally or through the eyes in the comic. That would have made sense. Otherwise, just get some snipers with adamantium bullets (why haven't they tried that?) and take him down from a mile away.

[ddgryphon]

Problomatic, but not awful. I'm unfamiliar with the Ultimates (truly hated Pym's personality -- is that part of the comic?). It seems like they bought into the whole Shooter "Pym is a jerk mentality" and that just doesn't work for me especially coupled with the Janet's submissiveness to him -- bad bad bad bad bad!

Enough interesting stuff that I'd watch it if it were a series, but nowhere near the quality of JL/U. (I've yet to see a comic book cartoon that completely visually worked for me -- except for the Fleischer Superman work and some of the Batman stuff).

What was up with the Asgardian Ale?

It would make a couple of good hours of TV to have 60 minutes each of JL and Avengers though. I'd Tivo that!

[Miller]

Originally Posted by D_Odds

I really, really disliked Cap punching the Hulk and the Hulk reacting. Granted, it didn't hurt him, but Hulk shouldn't even notice. And how did they pierce his skin with that needle. It's been awhile, but didn't they have to administer the drugs orally or through the eyes in the comic. That would have made sense. Otherwise, just get some snipers with adamantium bullets (why haven't they tried that?) and take him down from a mile away.

Haven't seen the movie, but in the comic, they take down a raging Hulk by having Hawkeye shoot him with an adamntium hypodermic.

[Love Rhombus]

My feeling was, if you're gonna do the Ultimates, do the bloody d@amn Ultimates all the way. Don't soft-pedal the violence and annoy your comic fans who have read it, while also boring the new people. Ultimates is supposed to be "new". Give them something fun, like Hulk's repressed libido (read the comic) or Hank's crummy attitude toward Jan (read the comic). If you're gonna go, go big or go home.

[D_Odds]

Originally Posted by Love Rhombus

My feeling was, if you're gonna do the Ultimates, do the bloody d@amn Ultimates all the way. Don't soft-pedal the violence and annoy your comic fans who have read it, while also boring the new people. Ultimates is supposed to be "new". Give them something fun, like Hulk's repressed libido (read the comic) or Hank's crummy attitude toward Jan (read the comic). If you're gonna go, go big or go home.

I think the Janet Pym stuff didn't come until after the first story arc - not that I'm going to go dig it out my TPB to confirm. I do prefer Ultimate Captain America; in the Ultimate universe, he is a soldier. While he is still a great leader, he is also over-the-top, dangerously gung ho. Tony's portrayal I could do without. Also, I'm pretty sure The Ultimates started with Iron Man's identity known.

[Menocchio]

Originally Posted by Love Rhombus

My feeling was, if you're gonna do the Ultimates, do the bloody d@amn Ultimates all the way. Don't soft-pedal the violence and annoy your comic fans who have read it, while also boring the new people. Ultimates is supposed to be "new". Give them something fun, like Hulk's repressed libido (read the comic) or Hank's crummy attitude toward Jan (read the comic). If you're gonna go, go big or go home.

I have to agree. This version tried to create a middle ground between the Ultimates and classic Avengers. Either one could have worked, but not both. This just pisses off fans of both properties.

Overall, I was underwhelmed. Needed more Thor, less Pym. God, what a jerk. Not a compellingly flawed character, just a jerk!

[D_Odds]

As Pym never headlined on his own, I think having a gen-u-ine jerk around works. Not every genius needs to be flawed. Some can just be egotisical asses with delusions of grandeur (and if they need a template, they can watch me for a week).

[ouryL]

Personally, I liked it. And I haven't read Marvel since the eighties. Banner as a sad sack scientist, Pym as an egotistical jerk, Jan as his masochistic wife, Thor as a surfer dude, I can buy.