Private Wells and Private Sewers

[Elenfair]

We're currently househunting. We came across a listing where the water and the sewer were "private".

I think I understand the basics - it's private, not public, duh, and therefore the responsibility of the owner if something goes awry.

What I want to know is: what does ownership of a well/sewer system entail, for maintenance and such? Help? Anyone? Bueller?

[Shagnasty]

Sure it does. You own it. You fix it, maintain it, and you are responsible for it. The end.

Here are the potential issues:

Wells - You own the well, the pump, and any water treatment equipment that supplies you with water. Most wells will generally be stable for a long time but they can get polluted and there is the possibility that it will run dry during periods of high use and dry conditions. In that case, you may need a backup well dug and that costs thousands of dollars. Your pump could fail at any time too and you would have no water. Those aren't extremely expensive to replace but they cost $$. Some wells produce water that isn't that great and it has to go through treatment equipment like a water softener you have to maintain that yourself at some, generally small cost.

Septic systems - These can be massively expensive to replace under certain conditions. Our neighbors found out their septic system was leaching into groundwater a year ago and had to have their whole system redesigned and a new system installed at a cost of over $40,000. Our system is only a little less vulnerable to the same problem and we view it as a potential financial time bomb.

What all of this means:
1) Wells - people have used wells since time began. The usual experience is to have a stable well that produces some different but fresh tasting water that you may have to treat in some way. A pump may fail and you could be out of water but it isn't all that expensive.

2) Septic systems - those usually just exist and don't cause any problems. They can last for well over 30 years with only minimal problems. It is strongly recommended that you get them pumped by a service every 1 - 2 years to keep the system healthy and prolong life. There are other recommendations like not having a garbage disposal with a septic tank and being very careful what you flush but pumping takes care of a lot of that problem. You are operating a mini sewage station that needs proper bacterial function to stay healthy. A complete system failure that a tank crack can cost a ton although this isn't that likely.

I don't mean to scare you. Millions of rural folks live with these systems without major problems but they do have risks (and some benefits).

[Shagnasty]

I should add the normal cost to owning a septic system.

1) Pumping very 1 - 3 years (once a year recommended). Large specialty trucks suck all the stuff that never decomposed out of your system with a gigantic vacuums. $100

2) Near surface parts repairs and inspections - $25 - $100 year

It isn't really a problem with either of these systems but you do have to be in the homesteader mindset. You could decide to have a backup well drilled if you decided to. Nobody is going to force you to do that. Well water tends to taste pretty good and be unique to the land. You can also decide how you want to treat it so you can have custom water out of all the taps.

[MLS]

My two cents:

The house I'm living in has had a well since the house was built in the 1950s. The water is delicious. Better than water you pay money for. As a result, coffee and especially tea taste better than average, too. We've had to have the well pump replaced twice. The first time, it burned out because of -- believe it or not -- a lightening strike. The replacement was covered under our homeowners' insurance. The second time, the pump just wore out. I don't recall the cost, but it was not prohibitive. We've had the well tested, and it has always come out just fine. It's a relatively deep well, and apparently taps into a great aquifer. Also, the soil around these parts is a heavy clay that resists saturation by contaminants. The only other problem is that the water is quite hard, lots of calcium deposits on stuff.

For several decades after the house was built there was a septic system. We had to have service on it one time, when a tree root or some such thing created a blockage. It was never pumped or seviced in any way other than that. There was an area in the back yard where the grass came in extra lush and green. I put a very small garden in there, about 10 feet square, and the first year it produced more tomatoes and other vegetables than we could possibly use. Then when city sewers were put in, we had to have the system pumped out and filled in.

It's great IMHO to have such great-tasting water for free (or for just the cost of the electricity to pump it). I think the amounts spent on the small amount of maintenance over the 50+ years has been far less than would have been spent on water and sewer services. Our current city sewerage costs about $200/year.

Obviously YMMV.

[Elenfair]

Thanks to you both - that answers a LOT of questions I had.

Thank you!

E.

[Polycarp]

Let me just add that private water systems can also mean privately owned systems supplying water to a group of neighbors, a subdivision, or whatever. Our water comes from a well which supplies about nine houses and two businesses in a quarter-mile radius. Our septic system is a large field shared with our landlady and another rental. Both are owned and maintained by the landlady; we bear no costs except indirectly in the level of rent we pay.

I have, however, seen people who have wellfields with which they supply 20-50 customers and bill them for usage or pro rata shares, as a for-profit utility.

[ftg]

Originally Posted by Shagnasty

It is strongly recommended that you get them pumped by a service every 1 - 2 years to keep the system healthy and prolong life.

Ummm, the frequency of service of a system varies a lot. Of the 3 houses I have lived in with septic systems: 1 required cleaning out every other year and the other 2 would go 10-20 years without needing cleanouts. The latter 2 were both very different designs. (One didn't even have a leach field, just a tall stack of large perforated concrete cylinders. Cleaned out twice in 40+ years before the county forced a sewer hookup.)

It is a really good idea to find out the suitable schedule for your geography, system type, etc. Ask neighbors who clearly take care of their property what their systems needs are.

[A.R. Cane]

If you have a septic system that needs pumping every year there is something
seriously wrong w/ it. three to five years would be near normal, but I've had septic
systems that went much longer.
Many jurisdictions are requiring periodic inspections, usually around every five years,
and some require pumping at inspection time, this typically costs around 3 to 5 hundred dollars if pumping is
required.
If your considering buying a house that has a septic system, and/or private well, you
should investigate the entire situation thoroughly beforehand. Some questions might
be: Are inspections/testing required? How reliable are the systems? Are there plans
to install community sewer and/or water systems and will you be required to hook up
to them? (this can be costly)
There are tests that can be done, on both wells and septic systems, that will give you
some assurance of reliability.
If community systems are available some lenders won't loan on a property until it's
hooked up, even though the property may have it's own septic/water systems. You
should visit the county building code enforcement office and learn everything you
can.
A property w/ good systems can be a good thing, but if there are problems it can be
very inconvenient and costly.
One thing to think about is that a power outage means you have no water. A backup
generator, or a large elevated storage tank can limit this, but both are expensive.

[Shagnasty]

Originally Posted by A.R. Cane

If you have a septic system that needs pumping every year there is something
seriously wrong w/ it. three to five years would be near normal, but I've had septic
systems that went much longer.

My town has some hard-core regulations (called Massachusetts Title 5) that govern spetic systems. If you have it pumped every year, you can avoid some of their even more Draconian compliance procedures.

The pumping costs about $100 and we do have a garbage disposal and everything else that people with normal sewer service would use. I know that most people don't get their tank pumped once a year but it certainly doesn't hurt and I don't want the town inspectors deciding that we have to do an emergency rebuild that costs tens of thousands of dollars.

This is the People's Republic of Massachusetts. Septic system owns you. The OP would almost certianly have less to deal with but I don't know anything about the OP's locality. Consider mine a worst-case scenario and it isn't all that bad.

I have read that people usually don't get their systems pumped enough however and that it is cost-effective in the long-run.

[Qadgop the Mercotan]

My septic system certainly owns me. Last January we sank a few $K into it because it kept backing up into the basement. And now Mrs. Mercotan called me this AM and told me it's doing it again!

I'll be meeting with the pumping and rooting and pipe scoping guys later today.

<<sigh>>

[Zsofia]

Something you may never in your life have considered - when I was a kid, we lived in the country and had a septic tank and a well. The pump got struck by lightning four times in the eight years we lived there. Had to be replaced each time. Crazy, yet true.

[Kalhoun]

We have our own well and septic. I've been here 18 years. We've NEVER pumped out the septic and have had zero problems. We replaced the pump this past winter. That's the second time it was replaced in 25 years.

Our water tastes like shit, but the only thing we don't do is drink it straight from the tap. We make coffee with it, cook with it, bathe in it. And we haven't woke up dead yet. In fact, neither of us has been sick in well over a decade. And all our neighbors (who presumably are tapped into the same water table we are) are about 300 years old. I'm cool with the whole system.

[A.R. Cane]

Originally Posted by Shagnasty

My town has some hard-core regulations (called Massachusetts Title 5) that govern spetic systems. If you have it pumped every year, you can avoid some of their even more Draconian compliance procedures.

The pumping costs about $100 and we do have a garbage disposal and everything else that people with normal sewer service would use. I know that most people don't get their tank pumped once a year but it certainly doesn't hurt and I don't want the town inspectors deciding that we have to do an emergency rebuild that costs tens of thousands of dollars.

This is the People's Republic of Massachusetts. Septic system owns you. The OP would almost certianly have less to deal with but I don't know anything about the OP's locality. Consider mine a worst-case scenario and it isn't all that bad.

I have read that people usually don't get their systems pumped enough however and that it is cost-effective in the long-run.

Some areas get overpopulated, w/ too many septic systems in a small area and a
relatively shallow aquifer, it can cause contamination of the water supply. This may be
a reason for requiring frequent pumping.

[Rhythmdvl]

Originally Posted by ftg

Ummm, the frequency of service of a system varies a lot. Of the 3 houses I have lived in with septic systems: 1 required cleaning out every other year and the other 2 would go 10-20 years without needing cleanouts.

...snip

It is a really good idea to find out the suitable schedule for your geography, system type, etc. Ask neighbors who clearly take care of their property what their systems needs are.

• How do you figure out the frequency of service? Wait until it backs up, then subtract a year from the last time you had it pumped?
• What does ‘suitable schedule for your geography/system type’ mean?
• Does adding enzymes from a box (i.e. Rid X) help? Should it be done as a matter of course? Could adding too much hurt the system?
• And perhaps most importantly...For those of you on two, three, whatever year schedules for pumping, how the heck do you remember? Are you organizational geniuses who wake up on Jan 2^nd 2009 and say, “oh, it’s septic pumping year!” WWMSD? (What would Martha Stewart Do?)

Thanks

Rhythm

[redtail23]

We lived for several years in a house with septic and well, and my mom still runs it as rental property.

The water was TERRIFIC for drinking, although the mineral content caused lots of staining on fixtures. (It was the only time I drank water for the first 30-odd years of my life, until I discovered bottled spring water.) We never had any problem with the septic until a moron dumped a bunch of concrete chunks on the top of the leach pipes. Over a period of several years, the weight crushed the pipes and that all had to be replaced. Amazingly it wasn't outrageously expensive (several hundred dollars, IIRC, not the several thousand I was expecting).

Definitely get lots and lots of info on the specifics when you're looking at a particular house. I'd advise getting an expert out to look the system over. There are things that can cause well pumps to burn out often (e.g., anything that causes too much cycling - a small leak in the pipes or dripping faucet, a too-small holding tank, etc.). Many older houses were built with well and septic systems too small for current needs (showers, automatic washers, dishwashers, lawn systems, etc., can overload older systems).

Also check for industry in the region - there are a number of areas here where oil-well drilling caused pollution of the water table. Hundreds of (rural) homes have had to go to bottled water because their wells suddenly were filled with nasty, smelly filth. (Of course, there's no way to prove that the nearby drilling caused the problem, so the oil companies get off scott-free. )

Zsofia - didn't y'all ever consider getting a lightning rod? They're pretty cheap, ya know.

[AskNott]

Elenfair, is the wellhead above ground? If not, find out exactly where the well is. If it's above ground, pump repairs will be a whole lot cheaper. You can even do it yourself. See below.

At my previous house, we were in the city, and all but one had hooked up to city sewers, but everyone had wells. A petition went around for city water, but the water line wasn't planted until a couple months after my pump ate itself. I hooked up to city water, but I kept the well hooked up, separately. I could water my lawn and garden without having my sewer charge calculated according to my lawn water.

The pump blew out in the dead of a -15 degree winter, and nobody knew exactly where the well was. I was out there with a mattock and a shovel, digging a trench in the frozen ground until the change of the earth color showed me where it had once been dug up. When I called in the well guys, they changed to an above ground well head, or pitless adapter. When I changed over to city water and a separate well, I put in a frostproof hydrant so I could shut down the system for the winter without bursting pipes.

[VernWinterbottom]

Originally Posted by A.R. Cane

Some areas get overpopulated, w/ too many septic systems in a small area and a
relatively shallow aquifer, it can cause contamination of the water supply. This may be
a reason for requiring frequent pumping.

In Massachusetts, it has a lot to do with miles of shoreline, too. My little town has about 29 miles of shoreline, both river and bay. There have been lots of problems with old, failing systems contributing to water polution. The Title 5 regulations are meant to help control that and improve our environment.

[Qadgop the Mercotan]

Originally Posted by Qadgop the Mercotan

My septic system certainly owns me. Last January we sank a few $K into it because it kept backing up into the basement. And now Mrs. Mercotan called me this AM and told me it's doing it again!

I'll be meeting with the pumping and rooting and pipe scoping guys later today.

<<sigh>>

Happy news! It was just a pump failure. A little replacement of connections, and voila, it works! No need to dig up the driveway again. Howie the septic guy had the tanks pumped, went down into the pump pit, pulled it, and is fixing it. Howie's a great guy, and no matter what he charges us, I never think he gets paid enough for what he does.

I am sorry we got rid of the old outhouse in the back lot all those 35 years ago. There are times when it would have been useful.

Oh, and our current well is 20 years old. It was drilled about 60 feet from the one the family used from the 1930's to 1985, when the new house was put in. Great tasting water!

[rbroome]

Originally Posted by Rhythmdvl

• How do you figure out the frequency of service? Wait until it backs up, then subtract a year from the last time you had it pumped?
• What does ‘suitable schedule for your geography/system type’ mean?
• Does adding enzymes from a box (i.e. Rid X) help? Should it be done as a matter of course? Could adding too much hurt the system?
• And perhaps most importantly...For those of you on two, three, whatever year schedules for pumping, how the heck do you remember? Are you organizational geniuses who wake up on Jan 2^nd 2009 and say, “oh, it’s septic pumping year!” WWMSD? (What would Martha Stewart Do?)

Thanks

Rhythm

Septic systems are actually fairly complicated-it is just that with luck the homeowner doesn't have to worry about all that biology/hydrology.

The various state agencies put out information you can use to judge how often you should pump out your system. But those are only general estimates. I have never (I am certainly not an expert, but have read up on the subject) heard of a recommendation for an interval greater than 7 years. Could be but I doubt it. Those folks who haven't pumped out their system in 30 years simply don't have a septic system and are cool with that. I can't imagine any system really holding it's sediment for that long.

A septic system is conceptually simple: big tank that receives all the waste from the house. Solids settle to the bottom and decay, helped by anaerobic bacteria. Eventually most of the solid material breaks down to bits that disolve back into the water. Water flow out of the tank into a series of drain lines which have lots of little holes. Water leaks out into the ground slowly enough to avoid soggy spots and seeps down into the ground. Homeowner isn't aware of any of this and is happy. But you can see a whole series of weak spots in the system. Problems range from chemicals (bluewater toilet bowl cleaners are famous for this) that kill all the bacteria and nothing breaks down to tree roots invading some part of the system. There are more serious problems such as too many house guests to soil that doesn't perk well enough to drain off the water. All in all, paying for central sewer doesn't seem like a bad thing-but that is just me. There are LOTS of variables. Want to cause some consternation to the real estate agent? Ask him/her how big the septic tank is. Not only will that determine the residence time of the water, it determines how frequently you have to have the system pumped out since bigger tanks hold more indigestable sediment. But no one will know the answer, causing all sorts of embarrassed comments such as "oh, I didn't know this house had a septic system!".

[Elenfair]

Thanks to EVERYONE for their input! I feel less stupid now!

E.

[Metacom]

One thing I'd add that no one seems to have mentioned yet: Not all private sewers are septic systems. There's another type called an aerobic plant that basically functions as a mini sewage treatment plant: instead of a tank and a leach field, you have a series of tanks, an agitator pump, a chlorinator, and a pump that moves the grey water from the final tank to somewhere else (like a set of sprinklers).

The county where I live requires that kind because the clay soil we have drains so poorly.

They cost more to maintain and run, so be sure and ask the owner of the place you're buying what kind of system they have and how much (and who) they pay to maintain it.

[Shagnasty]

Originally Posted by Kalhoun

I've been here 18 years. We've NEVER pumped out the septic and have had zero problems...............Our water tastes like shit, but the only thing we don't do is drink it straight from the tap.

Like I said, you may get away without pumping for a long time and not causing complete system failure but there are benefits to doing so and it is actually cheap insurance.

[Kalhoun]

Originally Posted by Shagnasty

Like I said, you may get away without pumping for a long time and not causing complete system failure but there are benefits to doing so and it is actually cheap insurance.

That's probably true. I've mentioned it to Mr. K on a number of occasions, but he's unconcerned with it.

Our situation is a little different, and I'm not real clear on how it all works. Our lot was a 7 acre farm at one time. It was divided about 20 years ago. I'm not sure, but I believe our septic field is on the other guy's property. We have tons of mature trees on our lot, but his lot has wide open spaces. I assume if there was a problem, it would show up on his property. We do have an access point to pump the tank, but the field itself is quite a distance from us. But we've never smelled any back-up.

[Lemur866]

Originally Posted by Kalhoun

We've NEVER pumped out the septic...Our water tastes like shit...

Well, at least you know now why you never have to pump your septic...

[Tastes of Chocolate]

You don't mention what kind of area this house is in.

We briefly owned a house smack dab in the middle of the Chicago suburbs, that was still on it's own well and septic system. We didn't have any problems with either, but just as we were getting ready to sell the house (job relocation) the village decided to extend city water and sewers to our neighborhood. Owners were going to be required to hook up to them, at the cost of several thousand dollars, just for the hookup rights. The city was ging to offer 10year loans to help people pay for it. Actually work would be extra.

Short answer? If this house is in an urban area, talk to the potential neighbors, or to the city, and find out if there are any plans, or rumors, to require city water/sewer hook up.