The Straight Dope

Go Back   Straight Dope Message Board > Main > The BBQ Pit

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 04-04-2006, 10:54 PM
suezeekay suezeekay is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Who do so many men want to have sex with young boys?

This story is of course shocking, mostly because of the risks that this guy took actually giving out his office phone number to a child. http://www.theledger.com/apps/pbcs.d...AKING/60404013

The sex part isn't as shocking anymore because of the Dateline (I think is was Dateline) stories where they lured predators over the internet posing as young children to a house and then arrested them. What was shocking was the endless stream of men that took the bait. If there were that many responding to these fake postings how many more are out there?

In a book I was reading about women in the middle east, one of them said when she went running in the park (completely covered of course) she would have her bodyguard run ahead of her for protection. But, she finally had to make him wait in the car because he was approached several times each day during her run by men wanting sex.

And of course we all know about priests and probably believe that not all of the pedophiles were uncovered and there are probably many more who were never caught.

And we all know about men in prison.

In my mind, I can explain the last three because those man are deprived of any opportunities for sex or women are just unavailable. But so many of the men CBS caught on camera were just normal-appearing men who led ordinary lives by all accounts. I can understand a few deviants, but these large numbers were frankly shocking.

I do know that with men, they act out in sexual ways if they are put in very stressful situations where they can't cope. When I worked in San Francisco, one day on the way to the office I came upon what appeared to be a young Vietnamese man running around in a parking area and tying his penis to car bumpers; then he would untie it and go on to the next. He appeared delusional.
These people, dumped into an alien culture, had a hard time adjusting. I guess this was one result.

I know in Rome, again not an expert, but I understand that it was acceptable for men to be with young boys. So does this mean that it's natural and if there are not laws, or cultural barriers that this behavior will come to the fore?
Reply With Quote
Advertisements  
  #2  
Old 04-04-2006, 10:59 PM
Least Original User Name Ever Least Original User Name Ever is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Another thing that has to be entered into the forumla in some fashion is just the amount of desperation. I'll bet a guy in this situation doesn't want to do what he's doing, but it's a lot of hormones surging that make the idea attractive at the moment. Of course, it's also some complete sick fucks that like children. As you pointed out, it's existed in cultures all throughout time. Notice how Greek statues don't have much body hair. The mark (or lack thereof) of sexual maturity.
As for prison, I've heard a theory on that. For the most part, guys in jail aren't homosexuals, they're just doing whatever they can sexually at the moment. Crazy lives go on behind those walls. I'm sure there are some rather sordid tales on the internets.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 04-04-2006, 11:06 PM
Contrapuntal Contrapuntal is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
From your story, bolding mine--
Quote:
A deputy press secretary with the U.S. Department of Homeland Security was arrested Tuesday night and charged with trying to ``seduce'' a 14-year-old Polk County girl over the Internet, sheriff's officials said.
Why are you asking questions about sex with boys?
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 04-04-2006, 11:19 PM
suezeekay suezeekay is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by Contrapuntal
From your story, bolding mine--Why are you asking questions about sex with boys?
It made me think about the issue of perversion and how hard it is for me to understand the attraction to young boys especially. Other than just calling them a sick pervert, which is really no reason, I guess I was hoping someone could shed some light on it.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 04-04-2006, 11:21 PM
Frank Frank is offline
Charter Member
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Kettering, Ohio
Posts: 17,749
Moderator Notes:

I've given some thought to moving this thread to GD. However, given the subject and the phrasing of the OP, that's probably a bad idea.

Moved from IMHO to the Pit.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 04-04-2006, 11:24 PM
Contrapuntal Contrapuntal is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by suezeekay
It made me think about the issue of perversion and how hard it is for me to understand the attraction to young boys especially. Other than just calling them a sick pervert, which is really no reason, I guess I was hoping someone could shed some light on it.
Yeah, but the guy was trying to have sex with a Girl. What do boys have to do with it?
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 04-04-2006, 11:40 PM
Amaranta Amaranta is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by suezeekay
<snip>
In a book I was reading about women in the middle east, one of them said when she went running in the park (completely covered of course) she would have her bodyguard run ahead of her for protection. But, she finally had to make him wait in the car because he was approached several times each day during her run by men wanting sex.

<snip>
And we all know about men in prison.
Wait, so this women had a body guard who was a young boy?

And what do "we all know" about men in prison?

Are you actually talking about men who want to have sex with young boys, or just men who want to have sex with other men?
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 04-04-2006, 11:45 PM
Frank Frank is offline
Charter Member
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Kettering, Ohio
Posts: 17,749
Quote:
Originally Posted by suezeekay
When I worked in San Francisco, one day on the way to the office I came upon what appeared to be a young Vietnamese man running around in a parking area and tying his penis to car bumpers; then he would untie it and go on to the next.
I can't resist any longer: he was tying his penis in a knot around a car bumper?
Quote:
He appeared delusional.
No shit, Sherlock.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 04-04-2006, 11:49 PM
Contrapuntal Contrapuntal is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank
I can't resist any longer: he was tying his penis in a knot around a car bumper?
Maybe he was one of these guys.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 04-04-2006, 11:50 PM
suezeekay suezeekay is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank
I can't resist any longer: he was tying his penis in a knot around a car bumper?

No shit, Sherlock.
You made me really laugh, Frank. No, he had a rope tied to his penis and he was tying and untying the other end to the car bumpers. He would tie it and then dance around before untying it.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 04-04-2006, 11:52 PM
suezeekay suezeekay is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
I think I'm going to bow out of this question now. No one seems to be really interested in the subject.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 04-05-2006, 12:03 AM
askeptic askeptic is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Suez, you did not choose to put this in the pit so I won't give you a pit type answer. First of all, I don't know what you mean by "so many men". Are you sure a lot of men like to have sex with young boys or could it be that it is considered such a heinous act that every instance of it is reported ad nausium?

Second, I doubt you have spent much time in a mens correctional facility, so you have no first hand knowledge of the amount of sexual activity that actually occurs. I would be willing to bet that it is less than you think. To put it bluntly we all certainly do not know about men in prison, and we should not base our beliefs on what we see on tv.

Maybe you should consider whether this is such a problem or whether you have just gotten cought up in the evilness of our time as hyped by the media.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 04-05-2006, 12:13 AM
Scissorjack Scissorjack is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Auckland
Posts: 6,670
Quote:
Originally Posted by suezeekay
What was shocking was the endless stream of men that took the bait. If there were that many responding to these fake postings how many more are out there?
Sample bias: if you set a trap for sexual predators, you're going to catch sexual predators. Doesn't say anything about the number {or percentage} of non-sexual predators out there. And quantify "endless": 10? 100? 1000? Out of a potential respondent size of how many?

Quote:
In a book I was reading about women in the middle east, one of them said when she went running in the park (completely covered of course) she would have her bodyguard run ahead of her for protection. But, she finally had to make him wait in the car because he was approached several times each day during her run by men wanting sex.
Was her bodyguard a young boy? If not, how does the fact that some Middle Eastern Men are apparently homosexual and cruise the parks relate to your OP? {And, because I can't resist, quis custodiet ipsos custodes?}


Quote:
And of course we all know about priests
Back up the truck, there: what do "we" all know about priests? That some of them are sexual predators? Granted, sure, but some accountants are probably sexual predators too: just less likely to receive publicity as a profession.

Quote:
And we all know about men in prison.
Sorry, but these sweeping "we all know" statements just aren't cutting it: a weak and confused OP, which can be summarised as "Some men are homosexual predatory child abusers. This is a bad thing."and I'm giving it a 4 on the "I hope they all get prison raped by 300 pound Samoan transvestites"* scale of outrage.

*No offence to Samoans, transvestites, or those who weigh 300 pounds is intended or should be inferred. E&OE
__________________
Detrimento malignitas; victoria ultio
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 04-05-2006, 12:19 AM
Scissorjack Scissorjack is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Auckland
Posts: 6,670
Quote:
Originally Posted by suezeekay
No, he had a rope tied to his penis and he was tying and untying the other end to the car bumpers. He would tie it and then dance around before untying it.
Performance art?
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 04-05-2006, 12:33 AM
Arnold Winkelried Arnold Winkelried is offline
Charter Member
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Irvine, California, USA
Posts: 14,822
Quote:
Originally Posted by Contrapuntal
Maybe he was one of these guys.
Now that the OP has abandoned the subject, we can move on to something much more interesting: Why do so many men want an Iron Penis? Though maybe the training is more fun than it appears at first glance.
Quote:
Penis qigong uses a variety of special exercises, including massage, slapping, pulling and hitting it with a tool.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 04-05-2006, 01:15 AM
suezeekay suezeekay is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by askeptic
Suez, you did not choose to put this in the pit so I won't give you a pit type answer. First of all, I don't know what you mean by "so many men". Are you sure a lot of men like to have sex with young boys or could it be that it is considered such a heinous act that every instance of it is reported ad nausium?

Second, I doubt you have spent much time in a mens correctional facility, so you have no first hand knowledge of the amount of sexual activity that actually occurs. I would be willing to bet that it is less than you think. To put it bluntly we all certainly do not know about men in prison, and we should not base our beliefs on what we see on tv.

Maybe you should consider whether this is such a problem or whether you have just gotten cought up in the evilness of our time as hyped by the media.
I hope that's the case.

I did unfortunately have the experience of knowing two men sentenced to state prison who told me their experiences and what they observed as far as sexual relations between inmates. The young and weak were preyed upon. It happened as often as they could get away with it; and apparently the guards didn't intervene, at least where they were. I was young and thought a lot of stupid things about how people can change (they usually can't) and listened to their stories as if I was unbiased and objective, when I was really revolted. I stepped into this situation unwittingly and don't even like to remember the experience; however, that was where my view of what goes on in prison came from.

I know I strayed off the topic of young boys, so that was confusing. I think that this is really not the place for this question because it can't be a matter of opinion; but, a matter of numbers and if there really has been an increase in this behavior or desire for this behavior or not.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 04-05-2006, 04:26 AM
kambuckta kambuckta is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 7,662
suezeekay, you have been around these boards for a few years now, and I'm sure in that time you have read plenty of threads that have addressed the problem of paedophelia. I'm also certain that you have picked up on the protocols of the board to the extent that making sweeping generalisations is mostly frowned upon unless backed up with verifiable cites.

In your OP today you seem to have been swept up into some sort of emotional whirlwind and have not given any thought whatsoever to the credibility (or lack thereof) of your information sources.

I would suggest you sit down, think about the questions you have asked here, think about 'most men' that you know, and then ask YOURSELF whether you really think that 'so many men' are deserving of the scorn you are heaping upon them.

Except the guy who ties his willy to the bumper bar of course. That's just sick.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 04-05-2006, 04:36 AM
Princhester Princhester is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 11,521
Quote:
Penis qigong uses a variety of special exercises, including massage, slapping, pulling and hitting it with a tool.
Y'know that time I said "I'll try anything once"? I'd just like to qualify that statement a little, if I may...
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 04-05-2006, 04:45 AM
Sevastopol Sevastopol is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 3,438
To the OP, it's a tricky question, not because it is difficult to answer but because the answer is difficult to deal with.

The answer: Because they do.

In other words we make a distinction between sexuality that is aberrant and that which is acceptable. In the cold light of day the distinction is arbitrary, once you move past the idea that sexuality is primarily about reproduction.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 04-05-2006, 05:00 AM
Siege Siege is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Quote:
Originally Posted by suezeekay
And of course we all know about priests and probably believe that not all of the pedophiles were uncovered and there are probably many more who were never caught.
Yes, I do know about priests, although I admit I know more about the Episcopal variety than the Catholic. The ones I've known have been upright, holy men who were trying to serve God as best they can. They've made some real differences to people's lives. Yes, I think the Catholic Church completely mishandled things. On the other hand, the only priest I know personally who tried something which was sexually immoral was a Fundamentalist priest who was kicked out of the Baptist Church for having sex with grown women who weren't his wife.

You want to put down the broad brush, lady?
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 04-05-2006, 05:23 AM
kambuckta kambuckta is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 7,662
Quote:
And of course we all know about priests and probably believe that not all of the pedophiles were uncovered and there are probably many more who were never caught.
Further to this statement, and to clear up your confusion, a person who engages in sexual relations with a minor is not necessarily a paedophile. A paedophile, by definition, is somebody whose focus of sexual attraction is towards pre-pubescent children. I would imagine that, for members of the clergy especially, they were able to act out their need for sexual contact primarily with children because children were available especially in Catholic boarding communities. Whilst I am sure that some offenders fitted the paedophile 'diagnosis', I'm equally sure that many if not most of the perpetrators were opportunistic offenders who saw any physical contact with any human being (regardless of their age) as an outlet for their sensory and sexual deprivation.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 04-05-2006, 05:24 AM
clairobscur clairobscur is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Paris
Posts: 14,325
Quote:
Originally Posted by suezeekay
You made me really laugh, Frank. No, he had a rope tied to his penis and he was tying and untying the other end to the car bumpers. He would tie it and then dance around before untying it.


And after reading that, you find it's *weird* to be attracted by young boys???






Serioulsy, I too don't get why you're asking this question specifically about young boys. Is it more mysterious than young girls?
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 04-05-2006, 05:28 AM
kambuckta kambuckta is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 7,662
Ah, fuck......I missed and screwed up some bits!!


See this?
Quote:
....if not most of the perpetrators were opportunistic offenders who saw any physical contact with any human being (regardless of their age) as an outlet for their sensory and sexual deprivation.
Can we change that to: ....if not most of the perpetrators were opportunistic offenders who saw any physical contact with any human being (regardless of their age AND GENDER) as an outlet for their TACTILE and sexual deprivation?

Geez, I wish we could edit posts here sometimes.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 04-05-2006, 05:29 AM
clairobscur clairobscur is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Paris
Posts: 14,325
Quote:
Originally Posted by suezeekay
So does this mean that it's natural and if there are not laws, or cultural barriers that this behavior will come to the fore?

Maybe, but it doesn't necessarily mean that there's currently the same proportion of men being attracted to young boys. Culture plays an important part, IMO. The proportion of men openly attracted to ephebes in ancient greece where such relationships were expected was probably much higher than the proportion of american men secretely attracted to young teens.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 04-05-2006, 05:37 AM
Scissorjack Scissorjack is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Auckland
Posts: 6,670
Quote:
Originally Posted by suezeekay
...if there really has been an increase in this behavior or desire for this behavior or not.
That's a false dichotomy, though: that either more men are preying on young boys, if that's what you mean by "this behaviour", and/or that more men want to. Consider a third option: that such sexual predation - and let's assume that the figures are historically constant for a moment - is less likely now to be condoned or ignored than in the past, and that recent highly publicised prosecutions have increased awareness of such crimes. You raised the spectre of priests preying on young boys earlier, but you must be aware that many legal actions which have resulted are historical ones, for offences often dating back decades, which would suggest that it's not solely a recent phenomenon.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 04-05-2006, 05:41 AM
clairobscur clairobscur is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Paris
Posts: 14,325
Quote:
Originally Posted by suezeekay
If there were that many responding to these fake postings how many more are out there?

Someone once gave a link to a study (basically, they hooked men's penis to some apparatus to mesure arousal, showed them pictures and read them erotica) that seemed to show that a very high percentage of men (high as in say, 15%, not high as, say 90% though I don't remember at all the figures) were aroused by female teens, female children and even non-consensual sex with children.

Unfortunately, I can't find a link.


In any case, I wouldn't at all be surprised to learn that non acted-upon and/or non-exclusive pedophilia is way more widespread than it appears to be. As you mention, for x men caught there must y times x men not stupid enough to be caught, z times x times y men who won't act at all upon their paraphilia and w times z times x times y men who have some form of limited sexual interest in children.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 04-05-2006, 05:59 AM
Siege Siege is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Also, statistically, more girls are molested by men than boys. Still it seems there's a greater uproar about boys being molested. Perhaps (and this is only speculation) it has something to do with people's distaste for homosexuality?

By the way, one of the priests who was accused of sexual misconduct in Boston was accused not of having sex with young boys, but with a married woman. Girls were also molested by priests, but that appears to be something the OP overlooked.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 04-05-2006, 06:03 AM
Dunderman Dunderman is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Quote:
Originally Posted by clairobscur
Someone once gave a link to a study (basically, they hooked men's penis to some apparatus to mesure arousal, showed them pictures and read them erotica) that seemed to show that a very high percentage of men (high as in say, 15%, not high as, say 90% though I don't remember at all the figures) were aroused by female teens, female children and even non-consensual sex with children.
The penile plethysmograph is unreliable. Every man knows that you can get (full or partial) erections from nervousness, anxiety, and plenty of other factors. If they hooked my penis to a plethysmograph and showed me pictures of children being raped, I'd be nervous and anxious as hell. I can pretty much guarantee that I would test positive in that situation, especially since all I'd be thinking would be "Don't get an erection, don't get an erection". The only safe way to get one.

Finally, being aroused by female teens is hardly deviant.
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 04-05-2006, 06:06 AM
kambuckta kambuckta is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 7,662
Quote:
Originally Posted by clairobscur
Someone once gave a link to a study (basically, they hooked men's penis to some apparatus to mesure arousal, showed them pictures and read them erotica) that seemed to show that a very high percentage of men (high as in say, 15%, not high as, say 90% though I don't remember at all the figures) were aroused by female teens, female children and even non-consensual sex with children.
So, a high percentage of men are aroused by erotica, in that their penis gets bigger.....regardless of the nature of that erotica. Wow. That is breaking news!! Did they do a comparable study with women? Did they consider the notion that exhibitions of sexuality (regardless of age and/or gender) were inherently arousing to observers because they were sexual acts?


Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 04-05-2006, 06:12 AM
DianaG DianaG is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
I'm fairly certain that if you hook a man's penis up to a machine and tell him that you're going to measure his reactions, what you've got is a "Whatever you do, don't think of pink elephants" situation.
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 04-05-2006, 07:04 AM
Slithy Tove Slithy Tove is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arnold Winkelried
Why do so many men want an Iron Penis?
When your only tool is a penis, everything looks like a vagina?
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 04-05-2006, 07:22 AM
gum gum is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Could we please stop talking about hooking penises to bumpers, machines or other apparatuses?
I'm not a man, but this gives me the ummm willies.
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 04-05-2006, 07:25 AM
Beware of Doug Beware of Doug is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by crowmanyclouds
{DarkRed}=CMC
I am soo underusing my penis.
When I read that this method "reduces cholesterol and diabetes", I was ->| |<- this close to buying a Utilikilt and a ticket to Vancouver, where I would study ceaselessly to become a master of Qi Dong.
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 04-05-2006, 07:45 AM
clairobscur clairobscur is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Paris
Posts: 14,325
Quote:
Originally Posted by kambuckta
So, a high percentage of men are aroused by erotica, in that their penis gets bigger.....regardless of the nature of that erotica. Wow. That is breaking news!!

Huh???? Yes, I think thet idea men would be aroused by any kind of erotica regardless of the content would be quite a breaking new.

I don't know you, but I can tell you that there's a lot of erotica out there that's not going to arouse me.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 04-05-2006, 08:26 AM
Kalhoun Kalhoun is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
I dunno...after reading the article on CNN's site, I've come to the conclusion that this guy is so tortured and sick that he just wanted it to end. He did everything but hold a press conference regarding his attraction to young girls. There was nothing in the story to indicate he wanted to keep his obsession a secret. I think he just wants to get into treatment and end the charade.
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 04-05-2006, 09:01 AM
Guinastasia Guinastasia is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Quote:
Originally Posted by suezeekay
I hope that's the case.

I did unfortunately have the experience of knowing two men sentenced to state prison who told me their experiences and what they observed as far as sexual relations between inmates. The young and weak were preyed upon. It happened as often as they could get away with it; and apparently the guards didn't intervene, at least where they were. I was young and thought a lot of stupid things about how people can change (they usually can't) and listened to their stories as if I was unbiased and objective, when I was really revolted. I stepped into this situation unwittingly and don't even like to remember the experience; however, that was where my view of what goes on in prison came from.

Well, that's a very tiny sample you have there-far too insignificant to judge the entire situation from.

And even there, that would be intimidation. These men were raped because they were small and weak. Prison rape is often about dominance and control.
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 04-05-2006, 09:46 AM
Excalibre Excalibre is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Michigan
Posts: 7,585
Quote:
Penis qigong uses a variety of special exercises, including massage, slapping, pulling and hitting it with a tool.
I'm quite fond of the first three, but I'm not sure I'd like to try the fourth.


Quote:
Originally Posted by suezeekay
I know I strayed off the topic of young boys, so that was confusing. I think that this is really not the place for this question because it can't be a matter of opinion; but, a matter of numbers and if there really has been an increase in this behavior or desire for this behavior or not.
Well, we can have a discussion of the issue - it's an important matter - but the question you posed was just sort of disjointed. You asked about sex with young boys, referencing a case involving a man hitting on a girl, and in discussing it brought up adult homosexuality (in varying degrees of consentuality.) I'm sure you didn't mean to equate pedophilia with homosexuality, and so I won't go into how grossly offensive your statements inadvertently were, but you don't seem to have posed a question that makes any sense (to me, at least.)

I think this is an important issue in society right now, partially because we need to examine our society's sudden obsession with it - but if you have a specific question, it needs to be framed in a way that we can understand it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Sevastopol
In other words we make a distinction between sexuality that is aberrant and that which is acceptable. In the cold light of day the distinction is arbitrary, once you move past the idea that sexuality is primarily about reproduction.
Arbitrary? I would say that the psychological damage inflicted on children by child molesters is a good enough reason to outlaw it - that doesn't seem arbitrary at all to me. Granted, what is culturally defined as "aberrant" sexuality varies - but I'm not much of a cultural relativist, and I think that, in outlawing child-molestation, we've done the right thing as a society.

Of course, I do think the issue is considerably more complicated than most people seem to think.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Siege
Yes, I do know about priests, although I admit I know more about the Episcopal variety than the Catholic. The ones I've known have been upright, holy men who were trying to serve God as best they can. They've made some real differences to people's lives. Yes, I think the Catholic Church completely mishandled things. On the other hand, the only priest I know personally who tried something which was sexually immoral was a Fundamentalist priest who was kicked out of the Baptist Church for having sex with grown women who weren't his wife.

You want to put down the broad brush, lady?
The really sad part of this whole Catholic priest scandal is how the church handled it. Inevitably in any group there will be some screwups or even predators, but I hate to see the way the Catholic priesthood has been tainted in the public eye by this, when ultimately it was a matter of a few bad apples and a very bad system for dealing with them.


Quote:
Originally Posted by clairobscur
Someone once gave a link to a study (basically, they hooked men's penis to some apparatus to mesure arousal, showed them pictures and read them erotica) that seemed to show that a very high percentage of men (high as in say, 15%, not high as, say 90% though I don't remember at all the figures) were aroused by female teens, female children and even non-consensual sex with children.

Unfortunately, I can't find a link.
The trouble is that penile plethysmography is not exactly an uncontroversial technique to find out what men are secretly into. You're a dude, if I recall correctly, so I'm sure you've experienced situations in which little clairobscur got all excited in inappropriate circumstances. I find (TMI WARNING) that I get erections when I'm nervous or stressed out about a deadline - does that mean I have some weird deadlineophilia? It seems far more likely to imagine that many men are aroused emotionally - angered or upset - than sexually when they see such pictures.

I guess I'm judging partially by my own reactions - I simply can't wrap my head around the desire for sex with children at all. The thought of having sex with someone missing secondary sexual characteristics is absolutely repulsive to me, and I sort of imagine that that's kind of how it's supposed to be. Isn't that what the outward manifestations of puberty are for? So to my mind, it seems absolutely bizarre to imagine someone being interested in children - which means I can't imagine that any large portion of the population is.

On the other hand, I can more understand to the desire to have sex with teenagers, as they do have their secondary sexual characteristics in place and I don't find the same sort of immediate visceral revulsion at the thought of it. It seems a lot more common for cultures to regularly condone sex with, say, thirteen or fourteen year olds than with prepubescent children. The thought still doesn't appeal to me, but I could believe that that's largely cultural programming and my own morals, rather than any inherent wiring.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Siege
Also, statistically, more girls are molested by men than boys. Still it seems there's a greater uproar about boys being molested. Perhaps (and this is only speculation) it has something to do with people's distaste for homosexuality?
Cite? I'm actually quite interested in what the figures are. I've never run into what appear to be accurate accountings for the gender predilections of child-molesters; I'd be curious to see if more complex patters can be drawn from them.
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 04-05-2006, 10:17 AM
Maastricht Maastricht is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Dutch in the Netherlands
Posts: 8,063
Quote:
Originally Posted by suezeekay
And now for something completely different: what the HECK is a full name and a full-color recognizable picture of this arrested man's face doing in the local newspaper?
Don't the media even await a decent trial anymore before they subject to public outrage both this man's family and every elderly guy who slightly resembles him?
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 04-05-2006, 10:24 AM
wring wring is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
some data:

RE: we all know about men in prison

gender of victims:
Quote:
Gender of sexual assault victims

Females were more than six times as likely as males to be the
victims of sexual assaults known to law enforcement agencies.
More specifically, 86% of all victims of sexual assault were
female. The relative proportion of female victims generally
increased with age. Sixty-nine percent of victims under age 6
were female, compared with 73% of victims under age 12, and 82%
of all juvenile (under age 18) victims. The female proportion
of sexual assault victims reached 90% at age 13 and 95% at age
19.
from US Department of Justice
Reply With Quote
  #41  
Old 04-05-2006, 10:24 AM
Kalhoun Kalhoun is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maastricht
And now for something completely different: what the HECK is a full name and a full-color recognizable picture of this arrested man's face doing in the local newspaper?
Don't the media even await a decent trial anymore before they subject to public outrage both this man's family and every elderly guy who slightly resembles him?
I agree with your point wholeheartedly. However, seeing as he's a public figure, it would be fairly easy to figure out who he is. I think this is one of the most unfair habits the press has. They do it to the regular Joes all the time. I'm sure countless lives have been ruined for this and other types of "heinous" crimes where they pointed the finger at the wrong guy.
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 04-05-2006, 10:27 AM
Kalhoun Kalhoun is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalhoun
I agree with your point wholeheartedly. However, seeing as he's a public figure, it would be fairly easy to figure out who he is. I think this is one of the most unfair habits the press has. They do it to the regular Joes all the time. I'm sure countless lives have been ruined for this and other types of "heinous" crimes where they pointed the finger at the wrong guy.
Also, he admitted his guilt.
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 04-05-2006, 10:52 AM
Maastricht Maastricht is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Dutch in the Netherlands
Posts: 8,063
Kalhoun, thanks for the info. Maybe this guy hired a spindoctor who advised him to "come clean".

I'm curious though; what would be the chances of an American childmolestor in similar circumstances, winning a lawsuit against the press? Suppose the childmolestor sued the paper for the suffering of his family, caused by a paper printing names, adresses, pictures, etc?

Or is the general feeling that a childmolestor deserves everything he and his family get?
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 04-05-2006, 11:02 AM
Kalhoun Kalhoun is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maastricht
Kalhoun, thanks for the info. Maybe this guy hired a spindoctor who advised him to "come clean".

I'm curious though; what would be the chances of an American childmolestor in similar circumstances, winning a lawsuit against the press? Suppose the childmolestor sued the paper for the suffering of his family, caused by a paper printing names, adresses, pictures, etc?

Or is the general feeling that a childmolestor deserves everything he and his family get?
Good question. Maybe one of the lawyers around here could find a precedent on that. Regardless of whether or not you're found guilty, the damage must be irreparable.
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 04-05-2006, 11:42 AM
YaWanna YaWanna is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
I really expected this thread to be about NAMBLA, for some reason.


OH, and
Quote:
Originally Posted by case sensitive
*No offence to Samoans, transvestites, or those who weigh 300 pounds is intended or should be inferred. E&OE
- as an accountant, I took offence at your post. Not really, but there was a glaring omission in your disclaimer, wasn't there?

Finally, I feel compelled to point out to suezeekay that you wrongly ascribed the Dateline program to CBS, when it's an NBC program. I know, that was petty & pedantic. I said it was a compulsion, didn't I?
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 04-05-2006, 11:52 AM
askeptic askeptic is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalhoun
Good question. Maybe one of the lawyers around here could find a precedent on that. Regardless of whether or not you're found guilty, the damage must be irreparable.
Charge and arrest is public information, the press is free to publish it. Address maybe not. Pictures are OK if taken in a public place. Family information is questionable.
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 04-06-2006, 01:19 AM
Incubus Incubus is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
I don't think this has been adressed yet (apolgies if it has) but one aspect of this dynamic to consider is that it isn't so much a sexual thing but a power thing. Some of these men may not so much be attracted by having sex with young boys, but rather having some kind of power over them. Sexuality has traditionally been regarded as something emotionally powerful, what with so many taboos about it. I think that at least some men feel satisfaction in having to make someone else submit to them sexually.

I know that some people get aroused by humiliating others. In this way, it can be a sexual attraction to the humilation, not the actual sex. I may be going in circles here, though. The point is, I don't think all of them (pedophiles) are doing it for purely sexual reasons.
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 04-06-2006, 03:58 AM
clairobscur clairobscur is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Paris
Posts: 14,325
Quote:
Originally Posted by Incubus
I don't think this has been adressed yet (apolgies if it has) but one aspect of this dynamic to consider is that it isn't so much a sexual thing but a power thing. .

We're told so about any kind of sexual assault (involving children or not) but I fail to be convinced, and I'm still no sure on what this statement is based.

I've read some time ago an article in which some specialist or another of child molestation divided child molesters in several categories. I don't remember which exactly (it included things like the true pedophile who has a sexual attraction only for children, the opportunist, generally a father or close relative, etc...) but there was no "power-tripper" category. So, I assume that, at least, not everybody involved in the issue agree with this statement.
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 04-06-2006, 04:13 AM
clairobscur clairobscur is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Paris
Posts: 14,325
Quote:
Originally Posted by Excalibre
I guess I'm judging partially by my own reactions - I simply can't wrap my head around the desire for sex with children at all. The thought of having sex with someone missing secondary sexual characteristics is absolutely repulsive to me, and I sort of imagine that that's kind of how it's supposed to be. Isn't that what the outward manifestations of puberty are for? .

I'm not sure secondary sexual characteristics are that relevant. For instance, a man doesn't display at all the secondary sexual characteristics an heterosexual man expects to find in a partner. Nevertheless, a sizeable proportion of men are homosexuals. So, I'm not sure why it would be more extraordinary for a man to be attracted to female children than to be attracted to adult males, solely based on secondary sexual characteristics.
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 04-06-2006, 04:35 AM
Excalibre Excalibre is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Michigan
Posts: 7,585
Quote:
Originally Posted by clairobscur
I'm not sure secondary sexual characteristics are that relevant. For instance, a man doesn't display at all the secondary sexual characteristics an heterosexual man expects to find in a partner. Nevertheless, a sizeable proportion of men are homosexuals. So, I'm not sure why it would be more extraordinary for a man to be attracted to female children than to be attracted to adult males, solely based on secondary sexual characteristics.
My only point is that I doubt pedophilia is all that common; I think people are naturally set up to look for sexually mature partners in most cases. Besides, being attracted to a sexually mature man is perfectly ordinary; it's only out of the ordinary in the case of a man who is attracted to other men. Being attracted to women or men are both relatively ordinary characteristics; having a sexual attraction to children is not normal for any segment of the population.
Reply With Quote
Reply



Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:03 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

Send questions for Cecil Adams to: cecil@chicagoreader.com

Send comments about this website to: webmaster@straightdope.com

Terms of Use / Privacy Policy

Advertise on the Straight Dope!
(Your direct line to thousands of the smartest, hippest people on the planet, plus a few total dipsticks.)

Publishers - interested in subscribing to the Straight Dope?
Write to: sdsubscriptions@chicagoreader.com.

Copyright 2013 Sun-Times Media, LLC.