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  #1  
Old 09-08-2006, 08:49 AM
Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor is offline
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"When in danger, when in doubt, run in circles, scream and shout." Origin? Source?

Quote:
"When in danger, when in doubt, run in circles, scream and shout."
What is the source for this?
When did it appear?
Is it part of a longer essay or poem?
What did it refer to when it first appeared?
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  #2  
Old 09-08-2006, 09:10 AM
astro astro is offline
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www.commentarymagazine.com/Summaries/V25I4P80-1.htm+%22When+in+danger,+when+in+doubt%22+phrase+origin&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=10]Only reference I could find[/URL]

Quote:
Osgood's books, credits "When in danger/When in doubt,/Run in circles,/Scream and shout," to an unsung genius in the Pacific theater during World War II...
No idea who "Osgood" is.
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  #3  
Old 09-08-2006, 09:10 AM
Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by astro
Link does not work.
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Old 09-08-2006, 09:12 AM
Ethilrist Ethilrist is offline
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I saw it in Time Enough for Love (Dora says it, I believe).
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Old 09-08-2006, 09:14 AM
astro astro is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor
Link does not work.
google > "When in danger, when in doubt" phrase origin

click on the Commentary Magazine link
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  #6  
Old 09-08-2006, 09:30 AM
Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by astro
google > "When in danger, when in doubt" phrase origin

click on the Commentary Magazine link
Well, yeah, ok.

But that just raises more questions than it answers.

Any other leads?

Should I submit this one to Cecil?
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  #7  
Old 09-08-2006, 09:48 AM
AncientHumanoid AncientHumanoid is offline
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Crow T Robot says it a lot. MST3K. Definitely not the origin, but I'll bet it's where you heard it.
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  #8  
Old 09-08-2006, 11:38 AM
Rocketeer Rocketeer is offline
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I first saw it in a Mad magazine Star Trek parody; don't remember what year, but probably between 1965-1970.
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  #9  
Old 09-08-2006, 02:56 PM
Chronos Chronos is offline
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Obviously not the source, but the first I encountered it was on the cartoon Duck Tales. At one point, that's the advice the Junior Woodchuck Guidebook has for the triplets.
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Old 09-08-2006, 04:10 PM
samclem samclem is offline
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Two early newspaper print sitings.

1955 article suggesting it was the "cry of the football team of the Old War College." Can't say which war college the writer was talking about or the time frame.

1957 article, written by a WWII naval officer, about the crash of the Andrea Doria in 1957. He uses that jingle and says it's an old Navy saying. He added the lines, "Stop the engines. Come About. Wake the Captain--roll him out!"
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  #11  
Old 09-08-2006, 05:08 PM
Rick Rick is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by astro
I suspect he means Charles Osgood
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Old 09-08-2006, 05:48 PM
samclem samclem is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick
I suspect he means Charles Osgood
NOpe. Robert Endicott Osgood.

And a telling statement from A short biography
Quote:
Osgood also taught at the Naval War College....
I think it's safe to say that it IS probably a Naval related saying from about the WWII period or perhaps before. Just WHO invented it we'll probably never know.
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Old 09-08-2006, 07:36 PM
Satyagrahi Satyagrahi is offline
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It's also quoted in The Caine Mutiny by Herman Wouk, copyright 1951.
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Old 09-08-2006, 07:50 PM
Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor is offline
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So, generally, it might be Naval.

Any Naval Officers on the Board?
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Old 09-08-2006, 08:16 PM
Moirai Moirai is offline
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We always said "When in panic, fear or doubt, scream and shout and run about!"

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Old 09-08-2006, 08:26 PM
samclem samclem is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor
So, generally, it might be Naval.

Any Naval Officers on the Board?
You're gonna need one who was in the Navy before 1951.
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  #17  
Old 09-08-2006, 09:26 PM
Nightsong Nightsong is offline
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As an added data point, I've always heard it as:

"When in trouble or in doubt,
run in circles, scream and shout."

Never heard the 'when in danger' version before: wonder which is the most common?

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<< It's always darkest before dawn. So if you're going to steal your neighbor's newspaper, that's the time to do it. >>
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  #18  
Old 09-08-2006, 10:26 PM
samclem samclem is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightsong
As an added data point, I've always heard it as:

"When in trouble or in doubt,
run in circles, scream and shout."

Never heard the 'when in danger' version before: wonder which is the most common?
Good catch! I can find this cited in a 1954 newspaper article, but there were NO OTHER hits for that phrase. Interesting. Just someone who heard it, and morphed it in another way. This was upstate NY, FWIW.
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Old 09-09-2006, 03:12 AM
NinetyWt NinetyWt is offline
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FWIW,, Bosda, my Daddy said this was a common expression in the Navy when he ws on active duty. He served between WWII and the Korean War. My sis was born in '56, as he was leaving the Navy, so this would put the phrase as being in use from about '52 to '56.
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  #20  
Old 09-09-2006, 07:34 AM
Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor is offline
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We seem to be getting a better fix on this.

Anybody else?
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  #21  
Old 09-09-2006, 05:49 PM
samclem samclem is offline
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A 1948 newspaper citing from the same writer as in the 1955 one about the (Naval) War College football team cry. He told the same story in a 1948 column.
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  #22  
Old 09-09-2006, 07:03 PM
Punoqllads Punoqllads is offline
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My Google-fu found http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/mt/...?entry_id=8475
Quote:
"When in danger or in doubt, run in circles, scream and shout" actually comes from Reefs and Shoals, the rulebook for cadets at the Naval Academy in Annapolis. This dates back to at least the late 20s.
I have found no corroborating evidence, however.
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  #23  
Old 09-09-2006, 09:24 PM
Nightsong Nightsong is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samclem
Good catch! I can find this cited in a 1954 newspaper article, but there were NO OTHER hits for that phrase. Interesting. Just someone who heard it, and morphed it in another way. This was upstate NY, FWIW.
How odd that this version of the phrase had a hit in NY, considering that I'm from (mainly) the midwest. *scratches head* I doubt that I would have heard it from my grandpa (who was in the Navy circa... er... Korean War era if I remember correctly), but I would have heard it either being said or in a book.
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  #24  
Old 09-09-2006, 11:01 PM
DrDeth DrDeth is offline
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The phrase is a parody of another phrase, something telling you not to panic. I think it was in an old BSA handbook.
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  #25  
Old 09-10-2006, 09:48 AM
elucidator elucidator is offline
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"Spider" John Koerner. Stuff yer cites. "Spider" John Koerner. Send him some money.
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  #26  
Old 09-10-2006, 11:03 AM
NoCoolUserName NoCoolUserName is offline
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"Spider" John Koerner for easy reference. Info also available on allmusic.
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  #27  
Old 09-10-2006, 01:37 PM
Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elucidator
"Spider" John Koerner. Stuff yer cites. "Spider" John Koerner. Send him some money.
No, no he didn't.
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  #28  
Old 09-10-2006, 04:25 PM
dangermom dangermom is offline
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You can find it, along with other amusing bits of rhyme, in one of the two collections illustrated by Wallace Tripp: Marguerite, go wash your feet or A great big ugly man came up and tied his horse to me. IIRC, there was no attribution. I'm pretty sure it's in Marguerite, and will check it if I go to my mom's place for dinner. Meanwhile, every Doper would enjoy both books, so go check them out of your friendly neighborhood public library...
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  #29  
Old 09-10-2006, 05:19 PM
Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dangermom
You can find it, along with other amusing bits of rhyme, in one of the two collections illustrated by Wallace Tripp: Marguerite, go wash your feet or A great big ugly man came up and tied his horse to me. IIRC, there was no attribution. I'm pretty sure it's in Marguerite, and will check it if I go to my mom's place for dinner. Meanwhile, every Doper would enjoy both books, so go check them out of your friendly neighborhood public library...
Do these volumes predate the 1920's?
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