Gay actors playing straight parts and vice versa

[Slypork]

I’m not sure if this should stay in Café because it is related to acting or in some other forum but here goes:
How do actors comfortably perform parts that are counter to their sexual orientation? Rock Hudson with Doris Day or Susan St. James (multiple times), Heath Ledger with Jake Gyllenhall in Brokeback Mountain, T. R. Knight with Sara Ramirez in Grey’s Anatomy, etc?

I realize they are acting but isn’t there some level of repulsion to overcome? I’m a heterosexual male and do not find the idea of kissing another man at all appealing. Actually, the thought of actually doing it is a little disgusting to me. Please do not take this to mean I am homophobic. It just means I’m not turned on by guys, just like I’m not turned on by women with whips or doing dress-up fantasy acts with my wife.

So, what do the actors do to overcome the feelings? Do they think, “OK, I’ll just pretend it’s a really hairy girl?” or, “I’ll just close my eyes and think of Fred.” Do actors ever turn down roles because the parts require them to perform homosexual/heterosexual acts? Does this cause them problems?

If the mods think this should be moved, please feel free.

[Skammer]

It's just, as you said, acting. I did a lot of community theater when I was younger and although I never had to kiss another guy, I kissed several women that I was in no way attracted to. And kissed them quite convincingly ;-)

Actors do all kinds of things in a role that they would never do in real life. It becomes kind of dissociative: you become your character, and you can suppress (or forget) that you're "really" heterosexual. Or whatever it is about the character that isn't really you.

[Otto]

I would imagine that many of them think "If I kiss this guy/gal I get paid lots and lots of lovely money."

[Fiver]

Originally Posted by erie774

Actually, the thought of actually doing it is a little disgusting to me. Please do not take this to mean I am homophobic. It just means I’m not turned on by guys, just like I’m not turned on by women with whips or doing dress-up fantasy acts with my wife.

So, to accept the comparison, are we to assume you find the thought of "women with whips or doing dress-up fantasy acts" disgusting as well?

[Fiver]

Originally Posted by Otto

I would imagine that many of them think "If I kiss this guy/gal I get paid lots and lots of lovely money."

And money knows no sexual orientation! $3 bills excepted.

[Slypork]

Originally Posted by Fiver

So, to accept the comparison, are we to assume you find the thought of "women with whips or doing dress-up fantasy acts" disgusting as well?

Yes. I am totally turned off by BDSM (not by SDMB, though). Pain and humiliation are not erotic to me. And the idea of dressing up as the shepherd boy while my wife is the milkmaid seems silly, not sexy. Everyone has their turn-ons and kissing a guy is not one of mine.

I had been in high school and community theater plays and had to kiss a few girls along the way but it was still kissing a girl. The thought of kissing a guy is just gross to me. Again, YMMV. If you are guy who likes kissing guys, more power to you. It’s just not my cup of tea.

[RealityChuck]

IIRC, Peter Finch was asked the question after appearing in Sunday Bloody Sunday in 1971 (when two men kissing was even more shocking than it is today). He said something like, "I closed my eyes and thought of England."

Interestingly, the IMDB says that Ian Bannen was first cast in the role, but was so nervous about the idea that he couldn't concentrate and was fired. That's one reason why you've probably heard of Peter Finch as an actor, and why you probably haven't heard of Ian Bannen.

But it's an actor's job to pretend. And pretending to kiss another man is no different than, say, pretending to be Adolph Hitler in a historical film.

[pizzabrat]

Originally Posted by erie774

Yes. I am totally turned off by BDSM (not by SDMB, though). Pain and humiliation are not erotic to me. And the idea of dressing up as the shepherd boy while my wife is the milkmaid seems silly, not sexy. Everyone has their turn-ons and kissing a guy is not one of mine.

He didn't ask whether or not you were turned on by those things, he asked if you were disgusted - that's what makes it a valid comparison.

And yes of course straight actors turn down roles for that reason.

[MrSquishy]

Originally Posted by Fiver

And money knows no sexual orientation! $3 bills excepted.

Ha! Well done.

[Antinor01]

Almost any actor will tell you that when they are in one of those kissing or sex scenes, it has absolutely nothing to do with being attracted to each other. It's just a job and between all the makeup, the lights, the crew, the director telling you what to do...there is no romantic or sexual componant in virtually every case. Whether it's guy on guy, guy on girl or whatever, it's just a job.

I've heard of actors turning down roles with same sex romantic scenes because they were afraid of the public perception of them or that it could hurt future career opportunities, not because they had some personal revulsion to those scenes.

Originally Posted by erie774

I had been in high school and community theater plays and had to kiss a few girls along the way but it was still kissing a girl. The thought of kissing a guy is just gross to me. Again, YMMV. If you are guy who likes kissing guys, more power to you. It’s just not my cup of tea.

Sounds to me like acting is not really what you're suited for if you are unable to seperate yourself from the character you are portraying. (This is only my opinion based on the above quote)

[Carnick]

Originally Posted by erie774

Do they think, “OK, I’ll just pretend it’s a really hairy girl?”

In essence, yes. One basic acting technique is to associate your actions with something you know. So if your character needs to kiss someone, think of your crush. If your character needs to cry over a death, imagine that your mother just died, etc. Of course this is only a basic technique and wouldn't work with Brokeback Mountain, because the characters would be missing the fear behind their lust. A good amount of disgust was probably healthy for that role.

[WhyNot]

Originally Posted by erie774

I had been in high school and community theater plays and had to kiss a few girls along the way but it was still kissing a girl. The thought of kissing a guy is just gross to me. Again, YMMV. If you are guy who likes kissing guys, more power to you. It’s just not my cup of tea.

And you're probably not alone, statistically speaking. And there are probably a lot of actors who agree with you. And those actors don't take parts that require them to do intimate scenes outside their orientation. The actors you mention are, while straight, obviously not overwhelmingly repulsed at the idea of kissing a man. But the majority of roles don't involve kissing anyone at all, and you can certainly make a career as an actor while staying in your comfort zone.

Why is this hard to understand?

[Swallowed My Cellphone]

Originally Posted by erie774

So, what do the actors do to overcome the feelings? Do they think, “OK, I’ll just pretend it’s a really hairy girl?” or, “I’ll just close my eyes and think of Fred.” Do actors ever turn down roles because the parts require them to perform homosexual/heterosexual acts? Does this cause them problems?

Plenty of actors turn down roles they aren't comfortable doing. And some of those don't get any work anymore because it's always easy to find someone who will do the work.

"Okay, I'll pretend it's a really hairy girl" is ridiculous. Any actor who has been working well with a director has learned how to get into the head of the character they are portraying. It would be counterintuitive to the performance if they "pretended it's somebody else." They are probably too busy trying to realistically be the person who wants to kiss the other character. Days and days, of preperation goes into assuming the role of a character. The actor is probably concentrating so much on the nuances of his/her performance, that "Ew, I utterly despise my co-star" is probably way down on the list of things running through his/her head at the time.

Kissing someone is just a technical part of a performance. If you're headspace is still way back at "Oh, yuck, I'm kissing a dude," then really, your understanding of the role and your level of performance is probably really poor.

My buddy's girlfriend had a love scene in her last indie flick. She said that the job requires you to get used to doing things that you would normally do: physically, emotionally, and intelectually. She you don't really think about it after awhile because you're just to damn busy being someone else.

[Slypork]

Originally Posted by pizzabrat

He didn't ask whether or not you were turned on by those things, he asked if you were disgusted - that's what makes it a valid comparison.

And yes of course straight actors turn down roles for that reason.

To clarify, I am disgusted at the thought of me doing it. If someone else likes it, fine. Not my bag, baby.

I couldn’t eat a live bug although some people do it all the time (I’m not just talking about Fear Factor but certain cultures think nothing of it and consider it a delicacy). I am disgusted by graphic violence in movies but some people love Saw and movies of that sort. Some people find oral sex disgusting because of smell, taste, whatever. Some people love broccoli or liver and the thoughts of those things makes me nauseous. Everyone has their own levels of acceptance. I couldn’t kiss a guy. Does that make me wrong or homophobic? Hell, no! It makes me a human with my own particular likes and dislikes.

Originally Posted by Antinor01

Almost any actor will tell you that when they are in one of those kissing or sex scenes, it has absolutely nothing to do with being attracted to each other. It's just a job and between all the makeup, the lights, the crew, the director telling you what to do...there is no romantic or sexual componant in virtually every case. Whether it's guy on guy, guy on girl or whatever, it's just a job.

I've heard of actors turning down roles with same sex romantic scenes because they were afraid of the public perception of them or that it could hurt future career opportunities, not because they had some personal revulsion to those scenes.



Sounds to me like acting is not really what you're suited for if you are unable to seperate yourself from the character you are portraying. (This is only my opinion based on the above quote)

I enjoyed the plays I was in and had a blast doing them. But if you were told to eat dog shit like they did in Pink Flamingos could you do it because it was a part and you were an actor?

[Swallowed My Cellphone]

Originally Posted by Swallowed My Cellphone

She said that the job requires you to get used to doing things that you would normally do: physically, emotionally, and intelectually. She you don't really think about it after awhile because you're just to damn busy being someone else.

Dammit, that was "You get used to doing things you wouldn't normally do."

Bascially, she said you start thinking of your body as a tool for the art form (acting).

So many of your personal preferences and boundaries take a backseat to the integrity of the artwork in which you're participating. You're too busy getting the job done (of portraying another individual.)

[Swallowed My Cellphone]

Originally Posted by erie774

I enjoyed the plays I was in and had a blast doing them. But if you were told to eat dog shit like they did in Pink Flamingos could you do it because it was a part and you were an actor?

Excuse me, but are you comparing kissing someone of the same gender to eating shit?

[Otto]

You know, I'm getting less and less comfortable with the comparisons of kissing members of the same sex to eating bugs and feces...

[WhyNot]

Originally Posted by erie774

To clarify, I am disgusted at the thought of me doing it. If someone else likes it, fine. Not my bag, baby.

I couldn’t eat a live bug although some people do it all the time (I’m not just talking about Fear Factor but certain cultures think nothing of it and consider it a delicacy). I am disgusted by graphic violence in movies but some people love Saw and movies of that sort. Some people find oral sex disgusting because of smell, taste, whatever. Some people love broccoli or liver and the thoughts of those things makes me nauseous. Everyone has their own levels of acceptance. I couldn’t kiss a guy. Does that make me wrong or homophobic? Hell, no! It makes me a human with my own particular likes and dislikes.

Yeah, I think we got that. No one has suggested you even might be homophobic except for you. A few times. Careful, or we'll slide right into "doth protest too much" territory.

[Swallowed My Cellphone]

Originally Posted by erie774

Hell, no! It makes me a human with my own particular likes and dislikes.

Precisely, but an actor who is very competent as his/her craft has learned how to assume the psyche of someone else and can ignore their own preferences because they are taking on the physical requirements of the role.

Your question has been answered. An actor's body is the tool they use for their artform. They learn how to extend themselves beyond their own personal preferences and boundaries.

[UntouchedTakeaway]

Originally Posted by erie774

I’m not sure if this should stay in Café because it is related to acting or in some other forum but here goes:
How do actors comfortably perform parts that are counter to their sexual orientation? Rock Hudson with Doris Day or Susan St. James (multiple times), Heath Ledger with Jake Gyllenhall in Brokeback Mountain, T. R. Knight with Sara Ramirez in Grey’s Anatomy, etc?

I realize they are acting but isn’t there some level of repulsion to overcome? I’m a heterosexual male and do not find the idea of kissing another man at all appealing. Actually, the thought of actually doing it is a little disgusting to me. Please do not take this to mean I am homophobic. It just means I’m not turned on by guys, just like I’m not turned on by women with whips or doing dress-up fantasy acts with my wife.

So, what do the actors do to overcome the feelings? Do they think, “OK, I’ll just pretend it’s a really hairy girl?” or, “I’ll just close my eyes and think of Fred.” Do actors ever turn down roles because the parts require them to perform homosexual/heterosexual acts? Does this cause them problems?

If the mods think this should be moved, please feel free.

I often wonder what was going through Rock Hudson's mind on the set of "Pillow Talk". I'd go in to detail, but I don't know how to do spoiler tags (I suck). Suffice it to say the scene in the piano bar had to have made him uncomfortable.

VCNJ~

[Jake]

Sorry, but to me it just brings up disgust. I'm a man, was born that way. I just DON'T want to watch two men kissing. But then, I could never be an actor.

[Fiver]

Originally Posted by pizzabrat

He didn't ask whether or not you were turned on by those things, he asked if you were disgusted - that's what makes it a valid comparison.

I asked that, yes, but I am not a "he," thanks.

[Antinor01]

Originally Posted by erie774

I enjoyed the plays I was in and had a blast doing them. But if you were told to eat dog shit like they did in Pink Flamingos could you do it because it was a part and you were an actor?

Ignoring for the moment that the two things are not in the slightest comparable, no I would not do it mainly because there are serious health risks in ingesting feces. Cite from the CDC

[Slypork]

Good god. I asked a question about how an actor could perform a part that would go against what they normally would consider repulsive. I wanted to get an insight into their mindset and what they do to prepare for the role. I wanted to know if some actors turn down certain roles because they just can’t overcome their personal feelings about the act they have to perform. I gave examples about some things that other people are able to do that I think are disgusting and I’m being attacked. The Pink Flamingos comparison is relevant because there is no way in hell that I can imagine eating dog shit just for a movie role. There is no amount of mental exercises, imagery or fantasizing that could make me want to do it. The fact that some actors can do it speaks volumes for their acting ability (or their lack of taste buds). I also said I don’t like liver and broccoli. I must be the most awful person on earth.

To those of you who responded with constructive and informative responses, such as Skammer, RealityChuck and Carnick, thank you. You have given me some interesting insight. I never went beyond the community theater because I just did it for fun, not as a career, and I wanted an idea of how the professionals did it.

To those of you who fixated on my examples…never mind.

I’m going to ask the mods to lock this thread because some people are too easily offended.

[Swallowed My Cellphone]

Originally Posted by Jake

Sorry, but to me it just brings up disgust. I'm a man, was born that way. I just DON'T want to watch two men kissing. But then, I could never be an actor.

Valid point. You also probably couldn't be a dancer if you have very rigid boundaries about personal space because dancers have to touch each other. Fair enough.

The OP asks "Isn't there a level of revulsion they have to overcome?" Answer: "revulsion" is highly subjective, and someone trained to set aside their own preferences and boundaries could get past it.

Some people couldn't get past it, and they probably wouldn't enter into a profession where it would come up.

[WhyNot]

I think the problem is that your title and your posts keep fixating on the gay thing.

Much better had you said, "I'm sure that most actors are, sooner or later, called upon to do things within their roles that they find distasteful or against their character. How do nice people play thugs? How do women who are champions of women's rights play battered prostitutes or abused wives? How do nice men play abusive husbands and pimps? How do people with no children play parents? How to people eat things against their usual diets, like bugs or even dogshit? How do people convincingly kiss or simulate sex with people they're not attracted to? What makes actors able to act not just the stuff that comes easy, but the stuff that's difficult and perhaps even a little repulsive for them?"

No need for your personal disgust with man lips to even enter the thread. You chose to emphasize that over and over, and even to make it your title.

[RealityChuck]

I would assume that in Pink Flamingos, it wasn't actual dog shit. I imagine your special effect people could come up with something with flour, sugar, and chocolate that looked close enough but was actually quite tasty.

[RealityChuck]

OTOH, there was the Herschel Gordon Lewis film where a girl was supposed to have her tongue ripped out (they didn't call him "King of Gore" for nothing). It was supposed to be a raw lamb's tongue (bad enough), but the tongue was purchased several days in advance and was improperly refrigerated and had begun to rot. Legend has it that they dosed it with Lysol, put it into the girl's mouth and shot the scene.

[Slypork]

Originally Posted by WhyNot

I think the problem is that your title and your posts keep fixating on the gay thing.

Much better had you said, "I'm sure that most actors are, sooner or later, called upon to do things within their roles that they find distasteful or against their character. How do nice people play thugs? How do women who are champions of women's rights play battered prostitutes or abused wives? How do nice men play abusive husbands and pimps? How do people with no children play parents? How to people eat things against their usual diets, like bugs or even dogshit? How do people convincingly kiss or simulate sex with people they're not attracted to? What makes actors able to act not just the stuff that comes easy, but the stuff that's difficult and perhaps even a little repulsive for them?"

No need for your personal disgust with man lips to even enter the thread. You chose to emphasize that over and over, and even to make it your title.

Look at the title again. It says

and vice versa (bolding mine)

and my OP gave two, count ‘em two, examples of gay men playing straight roles and one example of straight actors in gay roles. I spoke as a straight man trying to figure out how a straight man could kiss another man for a role or a gay man could kiss a woman for a role. I couldn’t do it and wanted to see how they could.
Acting as a thug or battered person or whatever is pretend because they are not really beating people up or getting abused. Locking lips with another guy is not being done with CGI. That was Heath and Jake doing it. Since I have not seen anything about either one coming out of the closet I wanted to know how they prepared for the role, what motivated them, did they have to do any mental tricks? What did Rock Hudson have to do to get himself into the job when he had to kiss Doris?

[Fiver]

Originally Posted by RealityChuck

I would assume that in Pink Flamingos, it wasn't actual dog shit.

I saw an interview with John Waters wherein he claimed it was actual dog shit. He wasn't saying it transgressively, but with a shrug, as if they were all young and footloose and it was no big deal to any of the cast or crew.

[Slypork]

[quote=RealityChuck]I would assume that in Pink Flamingos, it wasn't actual

Originally Posted by RealityChuck

I would assume that in Pink Flamingos, it wasn't actual dog shit. I imagine your special effect people could come up with something with flour, sugar, and chocolate that looked close enough but was actually quite tasty.

Sorry to disappoint you but it was real.

[Antinor01]

Originally Posted by RealityChuck

I would assume that in Pink Flamingos, it wasn't actual dog shit. I imagine your special effect people could come up with something with flour, sugar, and chocolate that looked close enough but was actually quite tasty.

Yes, it was actual dog feces. Divine was well known for her willingness to do anything.

[pizzabrat]

Originally Posted by RealityChuck

I would assume that in Pink Flamingos, it wasn't actual dog shit. I imagine your special effect people could come up with something with flour, sugar, and chocolate that looked close enough but was actually quite tasty.

Ha - you assume wrong. So very wrong. Pink Flamingos isn't a Hollywood piece filled with "movie magic". It's a feature-length stunt made by a then underground director (John Waters) for only 12,000 70's dollars. The dog feces eating finale was relatively well-publicized, and was filmed, without cutting, starting from before the dog took the crap to when the actor put it in his mouth, swallowed it, and gaped his maw at the audience.

[Poysyn]

When I was acting I had to kiss a guy that I can honestly say crossed the line from being not attractive to me being yucky. he was nice enough, he was just really scarggly, and a little smelly. And it was supposed to be the be all end all for my character.

It was acting.

But I would not eat dog feces or a pig's anus.

It's just kissing for goodness sake, and it's just lips. I am sure most of us have kissed (or done a lot more) with people that were not our cup of tea.

So pucker up!

[levdrakon]

Originally Posted by erie774

How do actors comfortably perform parts that are counter to their sexual orientation?<snip>

I realize they are acting but isn’t there some level of repulsion to overcome?<snip>

So, what do the actors do to overcome the feelings? Do they think, “OK, I’ll just pretend it’s a really hairy girl?”<snip>

To clarify, I am disgusted at the thought of me doing it. If someone else likes it, fine. Not my bag, baby.

I couldn’t eat a live bug although some people do it all the time (I’m not just talking about Fear Factor but certain cultures think nothing of it and consider it a delicacy).

But if you were told to eat dog shit like they did in Pink Flamingos could you do it because it was a part and you were an actor?

Good god. I asked a question about how an actor could perform a part that would go against what they normally would consider repulsive.

I’m going to ask the mods to lock this thread because some people are too easily offended.

You started a thread about how people handle parts counter to their sexual orientation. Then you ask if there's a level of repulsion to overcome. Then you say you're disgusted by it and you wouldn't eat a bug or dog shit either. Then, when you don't get the answers you want, you decide to have the thread closed because people are too easily offended. Riiiight.

You seem to just assume kissing a man is repulsive, disgusting, like eating bugs & dog shit, and wonder how actors deal with this.

Well, maybe they don't think it's repulsive, disgusting, like eating bugs & dog shit, and it's a moot point. Actors don't always feel the same way about it as you.

Originally Posted by Jake

Sorry, but to me it just brings up disgust. I'm a man, was born that way. I just DON'T want to watch two men kissing. But then, I could never be an actor.

I was born a man, and I do like kissing other men. Why are you speaking on behalf of men?

[Liberal]

Frankly, I think people were a bit heavy handed with the OP. It is, in fact, normal for a straight man to experience some level of repulsion at the notion of kissing another man. A straight man can't help that any more than a gay man can help his attraction to other men. He was very careful to disclaim any and all potential offense. I wish people had made this into an interesting discussion about how an actor pulls this off.

[Slypork]

Originally Posted by levdrakon

You started a thread about how people handle parts counter to their sexual orientation. Then you ask if there's a level of repulsion to overcome. Then you say you're disgusted by it and you wouldn't eat a bug or dog shit either. Then, when you don't get the answers you want, you decide to have the thread closed because people are too easily offended. Riiiight.

You seem to just assume kissing a man is repulsive, disgusting, like eating bugs & dog shit, and wonder how actors deal with this.

Well, maybe they don't think it's repulsive, disgusting, like eating bugs & dog shit, and it's a moot point. Actors don't always feel the same way about it as you.

I was born a man, and I do like kissing other men. Why are you speaking on behalf of men?

I never claimed to speak on behalf of all men. I spoke on my own behalf. I am sure that somewhere in this world there are people who could not under any circumstances kiss a member of the same gender (I’m talking passionate kisses here, tonsil hockey, not a little peck). If this is not an issue for actors and actresses, then so be it.
I do not assume that kissing a man is repulsive to other people, only to myself. I have said that repeatedly throughout this thread. If you like kissing other men, have a great time! If you like eating broccoli or liver, have a great time! If you feel like kissing women, have a great time!
I don’t give a rodent’s rectum about people’s personal sex lives. I was asking about how actors are able to portray something that is opposite of their orientation without being bothered by it. You mean to tell me you don’t know any gay men who think that the idea of kissing a woman is gross? My uncle said that he tried it once and felt sick afterwards because it didn’t seem right for him and it was unnatural. Was he wrong for feeling that way? No. It just wasn’t something he could get past. Apparently this is not an issue with actors.

[Slypork]

Originally Posted by Liberal

Frankly, I think people were a bit heavy handed with the OP. It is, in fact, normal for a straight man to experience some level of repulsion at the notion of kissing another man. A straight man can't help that any more than a gay man can help his attraction to other men. He was very careful to disclaim any and all potential offense. I wish people had made this into an interesting discussion about how an actor pulls this off.

OMG Liberal, I could kiss you for saying that (as long as you’re not a guy, of course ).
This was supposed to be a simple question and answer sort of thing about the acting craft and it immediately got turned into, “How dare you be disgusted with that?” Again, to all people who answered my initial question, thank you for answering. Everyone else needs to lighten up.

[Antinor01]

Originally Posted by erie774

I don’t give a rodent’s rectum about people’s personal sex lives. I was asking about how actors are able to portray something that is opposite of their orientation without being bothered by it. You mean to tell me you don’t know any gay men who think that the idea of kissing a woman is gross? My uncle said that he tried it once and felt sick afterwards because it didn’t seem right for him and it was unnatural. Was he wrong for feeling that way? No. It just wasn’t something he could get past. Apparently this is not an issue with actors.

I have kissed females before, usually as part of a game of truth or dare. That is not something I would do under normal circumstances but in that situation I had no problem with it because there was no question of attraction, desire, being turned on or anything else.

One time at a convention I frenched a lesbian friend. Neither of us have any attraction whatsoever to the opposite sex but decided to do it because we both consider ourselves great kissers and thought we should compare. (of course, we weren't completely sober either) She said I kiss too wet, but then what does she know. Like the above, this had nothing to do with desire or attraction. It was more like a competition.

If I was going to be paid to be in a movie with the stipulation that my character was a ladies man getting all kinds of action, I'd do it in a heartbeat.

[Liberal]

I don't know that I would find it repulsive to the extent of nauseating or anything. I'm sure it would be discomforting. But for that kind of money, I'd be willing to whore myself pretty much any way they wanted it. Still, I'm not sure accomplished actors do it for the money since they likely have enough already. Maybe it's for love of the craft. Of course, you never know. They could be broke despite appearances to the contrary.

[picker]

Well I'm a straight man who, once or twice in my life, has kissed another man.

Crap, does this mean I'm an actor?

my mother will be so ashamed

[Slypork]

Anyone remember the movie Deathtrap? When Christopher Reeve and Michael Caine kissed it just totally blew a lot of women’s minds. How could the Man of Steel play a gay man? Nowadays it would be like Brad Pitt and George Clooney kissing.
I remember an interview where Caine said, “I told Chris that we could do the scene but if I felt a tongue I was going to deck him.” Apparently it took a little booze to convince them.

[levdrakon]

Originally Posted by erie774

I never claimed to speak on behalf of all men. I spoke on my own behalf. I am sure that somewhere in this world there are people who could not under any circumstances kiss a member of the same gender (I’m talking passionate kisses here, tonsil hockey, not a little peck). If this is not an issue for actors and actresses, then so be it.
I do not assume that kissing a man is repulsive to other people, only to myself. I have said that repeatedly throughout this thread. If you like kissing other men, have a great time! If you like eating broccoli or liver, have a great time! If you feel like kissing women, have a great time!
I don’t give a rodent’s rectum about people’s personal sex lives. I was asking about how actors are able to portray something that is opposite of their orientation without being bothered by it. You mean to tell me you don’t know any gay men who think that the idea of kissing a woman is gross? My uncle said that he tried it once and felt sick afterwards because it didn’t seem right for him and it was unnatural. Was he wrong for feeling that way? No. It just wasn’t something he could get past. Apparently this is not an issue with actors.

I didn't say you claimed to speak on behalf of men. I was careful to quote the person who did.

As far as your uncle is concerned, why don't you ask him how he dealt with it? I'm gay and kiss women on the lips all the time and doesn't bother me one iota. In fact I like it. It's a nice expression of friendship.

As far as sitting at Lover's Point and making out for awhile, I've done that too. Didn't like it. Didn't throw up either. I just psyched myself into it and acted like I was into it. As others have said, it's just another person with lips. And a tongue. But really if you're going to play the role, then you just play the role. I didn't pretend I was making out with a guy. I psyched myself into pretending I enjoyed making out with a gal.

[OneCentStamp]

Originally Posted by erie774

Anyone remember the movie Deathtrap? When Christopher Reeve and Michael Caine kissed it just totally blew a lot of women’s minds. How could the Man of Steel play a gay man?

I hope those women saw the recent Superman movie.

[Otto]

Originally Posted by Liberal

Frankly, I think people were a bit heavy handed with the OP. It is, in fact, normal for a straight man to experience some level of repulsion at the notion of kissing another man. A straight man can't help that any more than a gay man can help his attraction to other men.

"Attraction to other men" does not equal "repulsed by kissing women." As a man who thoroughly enjoys kissing other men, I have not gone "Kiss a girl? Eeew!" since approximately third grade. I don't excuse people who are "repulsed" at the idea of kissing someone of the same sex nor do I believe that it's "natural" to have a reaction as violent as "repulsion." Antipathy, sure, no problem, but if you have crossed from being uninterested in kissing someone of the same sex to being actively grossed out at the thought of it then you're a little bit messed up.

[Swallowed My Cellphone]

Originally Posted by Liberal

I wish people had made this into an interesting discussion about how an actor pulls this off.

Some of us tried and are still being told to lighten up (presumably that is being directed at me). I questioned only the comparisson of "eating dog shit" to the OP, since it seemed neither relevent or particularly fair.

I have several friends who work professionally as actors in the film and theater industries. As I said above, when asked they all say roughly the same thing: Any dislike they have for their co-star (inlcuding natural sexual preferences/aversions) is far, far down on the list of things that go through their minds, during their performance. They have devoted days or weeks to developing their characters - getting inside their heads as well as the character's physicality. They defer to the character study because it's part of their job.

A role that had elements they really object to is a role they would not take. Example: A friend's agent wanted her to audition for a role that required sexual violence and she didn't feel comfortable with that and declined. Although as an audition piece, sometimes she does a monolog from "White Biting Dog" -- it's about eating vomit.

[Miller]

Originally Posted by erie774

I do not assume that kissing a man is repulsive to other people, only to myself.

You don't? Because this sort of sounds like you do:

Originally Posted by erie774

I realize they are acting but isn’t there some level of repulsion to overcome?

Being straight doesn't automatically mean that you're disgusted at having to kiss another guy. It's entirely possible to be straight and to consider kissing another man to not be a big deal. It's not like you have to either totally lust after someone, or be completly repulsed by them. There is, in fact, quite a bit of middle ground there, and that's without even taking issue with the traditional dualistic approach to sexual identity you've employed in this thread. It is, in fact, possible to be straight and still kind of enjoy kissing another guy.

[pulykamell]

Originally Posted by Otto

Antipathy, sure, no problem, but if you have crossed from being uninterested in kissing someone of the same sex to being actively grossed out at the thought of it then you're a little bit messed up.

I don't know if I agree. I think it's a perfectly natural reaction for many men. I wouldn't necessarily say I'm repulsed by the thought of myself kissing another man, but I would be squeamish about it, yes. I'm also squeamish about the thought of kissing a girl I'm not attracted to. I doubt any person would consider me homophobic on any level.

[DeadlyAccurate]

Originally Posted by erie774

Nowadays it would be like Brad Pitt and George Clooney kissing.

Funny you should mention that, because the first time I saw Ocean's Twelve, there was a scene with those two where my very first thought was, "Man, they really need to make out right about now."

[Otto]

Originally Posted by DeadlyAccurate

Funny you should mention that, because the first time I saw Ocean's Twelve, there was a scene with those two where my very first thought was, "Man, they really need to make out right about now."

Yeah, like, every scene. Hot man-on-man action is the only thing that woulda saved that shitty movie.