343 Tons of $100 Bills

[shelbo]

Paul Bremer and friends brought $20 Billion dollars into Iraq (343 Tons of C-Notes!), and basically let it be looted. Kind of like the arms depots that the US cracked open and left to the mobs.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,,2008189,00.html
But, it wasn't our money, so, really "what difference does it make?"

It is really hard to fathom these people. What difference does it make that $20 billion dollars disappeared into the quagmire? To be picked up by insurgents and warlords, to finance the killing of civilians and American troops? That the money didn't help rebuild the infrastructure of the country? About the same difference that tons and tons of explosives and weaponry was left out for grabs, and ended up in the same place. Geezus, you just want to slap someone. Someone needs to go to jail.

[silenus]

Jail isn't good enough. Send them swordless to Palestine (metaphorically). 5 years in Iraq seems about right. In Tikrit.

[El_Kabong]

Originally Posted by shelbo

Someone needs to go to jail.

Well, it's just a start, but someone may be.

[Oakminster]

OK, then. Guess we know what needs to be added to the definition of "Mongolian Cluster Fuck".

[mhendo]

From the article:

However, evidence before the committee suggests that senior American officials were unconcerned about the situation because the billions were not US taxpayers' money. Paul Bremer, the head of the CPA, reminded the committee that "the subject of today's hearing is the CPA's use and accounting for funds belonging to the Iraqi people held in the so-called Development Fund for Iraq. These are not appropriated American funds. They are Iraqi funds. I believe the CPA discharged its responsibilities to manage these Iraqi funds on behalf of the Iraqi people."

Bremer's financial adviser, retired Admiral David Oliver, is even more direct. The memorandum quotes an interview with the BBC World Service. Asked what had happened to the $8.8bn he replied: "I have no idea. I can't tell you whether or not the money went to the right things or didn't - nor do I actually think it's important."

Q: "But the fact is billions of dollars have disappeared without trace."

Oliver: "Of their money. Billions of dollars of their money, yeah I understand. I'm saying what difference does it make?"

Bolding mine.

So, America showed about as much concern for Iraqi money as it has for Iraqi lives in this whole mess. Nothing too surprising there, i guess.

[Squink]

Originally Posted by shelbo

(343 Tons of C-Notes!)

Boeing Cargo planes

The 777F will have a payload of 103 tons. This is very close to the capacity of the 747-400F, which has a payload of 112 tons.

So 343 tons is about three and a half Boeing 777's stuffed to the gills with green.

[Frostillicus]

I think I am going to puke. Really.

[Caridwen]

I'm sure dozens of investigative reporters will be all over this story. That's right, there are no investgative reporters anymore. Just a bunch of bloated talking heads and preening poodles paid to read the news and kiss ass questions.

I couldn't even find anything about this in the NYT. Just this article about contractors.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/04/wa...=1&oref=slogin

[miss elizabeth]

Here's my question:

Just what, exactly, has to happen before people get seriously pissed? I see this, and my head is about to explode; I'm so angry and freaked out... I had to pace around the room for awhile this morning. But I feel like most people, they see this, and it doesn't even register. What is going to have to happen before the American people, and Congress, reach the point of no return, and throw these assholes to the curb?

I just ask, because it probably already happened, and maybe we should start talking about it, to speed the process along.

[elucidator]

Hell, why didn't we just buy the fuckin' place, we wanted it so bad.

[matt_mcl]

Lea DeLaria tried out that idea in an earlier conflict:

"I don't think there should be gays in the military, I don't think there should be straights in the military, I DON'T THINK THERE SHOULD BE A MILITARY! I think we should take all the money we spend on defence and just buy Bosnia! Just buy it! Send three queens in to gentrify! 'Let's do Bosnia in a desert motif! Lawrence of Olivier - it'll be fabulous.'"

[Caridwen]

Originally Posted by miss elizabeth

Here's my question:

Just what, exactly, has to happen before people get seriously pissed? I see this, and my head is about to explode; I'm so angry and freaked out... I had to pace around the room for awhile this morning. But I feel like most people, they see this, and it doesn't even register. What is going to have to happen before the American people, and Congress, reach the point of no return, and throw these assholes to the curb?

I just ask, because it probably already happened, and maybe we should start talking about it, to speed the process along.

I feel the exactly the same way. What's it going to take for people to get so fed up that they throw all of these amoral assholes to the curb? Lying about a war didn't do it. Dead bodies of young American soldiers didn't do it. The fact that Bush's cronies are profiting from the war didn't do it.

Then you read about the homeless vets

"– Veterans of the Iraq and Afghanistan conflicts are now showing up in the nation's homeless shelters...While the numbers are still small, they're steadily rising, and raising alarms in both the homeless and veterans' communities. The concern is that these returning veterans - some of whom can't find jobs after leaving the military, others of whom are still struggling psychologically with the war - may be just the beginning of an influx of new veterans in need...

"It's horrible to put your life on the line and then come back home to nothing, that's what I came home to: nothing. I didn't know where to go or where to turn," says Mr. Noel. "I thought I was alone, but I found out there are a whole lot of other soldiers in the same situation. Now I want people to know what's really going on."

http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/0208/p02s01-ussc.html

Injured vets come home to poverty
http://abcnews.go.com/Primetime/Iraq...=163109&page=1

It makes me sick to my stomach.

[Polycarp]

Originally Posted by silenus

Jail isn't good enough. Send them swordless to Palestine (metaphorically). 5 years in Iraq seems about right. In Tikrit.

I disagree. These gentlemen have added a new dimension to our understanding of criminal negligence, malfeasance in fiduciary duty, and other "white collar" crimes.

They deserve to be sentenced in accord with the prevailing standard for people who have lost the money of others through lack of diligence:

Lock them up. In an Iraqi jail -- Al Ghraib might be appropriate. On a civil charge: to remain incarcerated until they make restitution.

[Merijeek]

Originally Posted by Caridwen

I feel the exactly the same way. What's it going to take for people to get so fed up that they throw all of these amoral assholes to the curb? Lying about a war didn't do it. Dead bodies of young American soldiers didn't do it. The fact that Bush's cronies are profiting from the war didn't do it.

Non-sarcastic answer? A Democrat to do it. Seriously. Why do I say this?

The Republicans spent 25 years investing in and building a noise machine that does nothing but blare how Anything Bad Comes From Liberals Who Want To Take Your Money and Anything Bad That Comes From Republicans Is Actually Caused By Liberals Making Us Do It.

Remember Rush Limbaugh's Speech Of Contrition after the 2006 Elections? It wasn't, "Oh, we fucked up one too many times and got pasted for it", no, it was "I have been carrying water for far too many of these guys for too long when they didn't deserve it. They weren't Right-Wing enough for this country so they got voted out."

Take a poll. Ask people how many Billions of money would have to disappear (not be wasted, not sunk into pork, but DISAPPEAR) from government coffers before they get outraged. I'll bet the number will be far below $20B.

But, if nobody (compared to the whole population) knows about it? If enough noise is broadcast to drown out the facts? Then facts don't matter.

-Joe

[Caridwen]

Take a poll. Ask people how many Billions of money would have to disappear (not be wasted, not sunk into pork, but DISAPPEAR) from government coffers before they get outraged. I'll bet the number will be far below $20B.

It's one thing not to know about it, but another to give it a pass. And the people that are the first to scream about an increase in minimum wage or another social program seem perfectly fine with the idea that we're paying for the billions and billions of dollars that are being thrown away or fed into this war.

[gonzomax]

The second shipment was 2.4 billion. They just opened our treasury and did no accounting.

[Gangster Octopus]

To oversee the expenditure the CPA was supposed to appoint an independent certified public accounting firm. "Instead the CPA hired an obscure consulting firm called North Star Consultants Inc. The firm was so small that it reportedly operates out of a private home in San Diego."

So who's cousin do you think runs this consulting firm?

[Waverly]

Originally Posted by Squink

Boeing Cargo planes So 343 tons is about three and a half Boeing 777's stuffed to the gills with green.

Not exactly. In this case the planes will reach their weight capacity before their volume capacity, making them unstuffed, but fully loaded by weight.

[jjimm]

Christ almighty. Even in my most rabidly anti-US government Euro-weenie wet dreams, I couldn't come up with shit like this.

The circumstances almost sound like petulance. "Not MY money. I don't care."

George Marshall must be spinning in his grave.

[5 time champ]

and the silence from Republicans, conservatives & right-wingers both on and off this Board is deafening, but typical. Why do they hate America and our troops?

[Alessan]

343 tons, what do you get
Another day older and a hunderd more dead
Saint Peter don't you call me 'cause I can't go
I owe my soul to the Iraqi war.



Bum bum bum bum bum-pe-bum-bum

[elucidator]

And you know whats coming next, you just know it!

"Well, gee, sure we'd all love to fund health care and educations, but, gosh, we spent all our money on the War on Terr!...."

[Gangster Octopus]

I am not defending this amazing lack of accountability, it is just pathetic. But let's not confuse the issue, this was not US taxpayer moeny, this was Iraqi money that was being given out without any accountability. So it isn't the case where the money could have been better spent on US VA hospitals and US health care, etc. That of course would be the other billions of dollars from US taxpayers we have wasted on this idiotic war.

[Squink]

Originally Posted by Gangster Octopus

this was not US taxpayer moeny, this was Iraqi money that was being given out without any accountability....

Yes, and it was also about $5.5 billion, rather than the $20 billion stated in the OP. At a gram a bill, that still comes out to 300 and some tons, depending on denomination; more than enough to circle the world at the equator.

[mhendo]

Originally Posted by Gangster Octopus

I am not defending this amazing lack of accountability, it is just pathetic. But let's not confuse the issue, this was not US taxpayer moeny, this was Iraqi money that was being given out without any accountability. So it isn't the case where the money could have been better spent on US VA hospitals and US health care, etc. That of course would be the other billions of dollars from US taxpayers we have wasted on this idiotic war.

But one of the (alleged) premises behind America's presence in Iraq is that we are there to bring some accountability and integrity to the place. The notion that it's not our money so it doesn't matter what we do with it is just a cop-out. Having placed ourselves in control of their country, we have a responsibility to be as careful with their money as we would be with our own.

[Squink]

So why'd they do it?

"Who in their right mind would send 363 tons of cash into a war zone? But that's exactly what our government did," Waxman said. Because of the way the CPA kept track of the payments, Waxman said, "we have no way of knowing whether the cash shipped into the Green Zone ended up in enemy hands."

Bremer responded that he was trying to make the best of a bad situation. Iraqi ministries, he said, lacked modern financial management systems, and the country's banks could not handle electronic fund transfers. Waiting to implement new accounting and banking practices, he insisted, would have resulted in lengthy delays in paying salaries and pensions.

"Delay would have been demoralizing and unfair to the citizens of Iraq," Bremer said. "Delay might well have exacerbated the nascent insurgency and thereby increased the danger to Americans on the ground."

$5 billion to avoid an insurgency would have been money well spent.
Question is, how'd that work out for us?

[shelbo]

Originally Posted by Squink

Yes, and it was also about $5.5 billion, rather than the $20 billion stated in the OP. At a gram a bill, that still comes out to 300 and some tons, depending on denomination; more than enough to circle the world at the equator.

Originally Posted by Squink

$5 billion to avoid an insurgency would have been money well spent.
Question is, how'd that work out for us?

$5 Billion is too small a number.

From the linked article in the OP:

"The US flew nearly $12bn in shrink-wrapped $100 bills into Iraq, then distributed the cash with no proper control over who was receiving it and how it was being spent."

"In the year after the invasion of Iraq in 2003 nearly 281 million notes, weighing 363 tonnes, were sent from New York to Baghdad for disbursement to Iraqi ministries and US contractors. Using C-130 planes, the deliveries took place once or twice a month with the biggest of $2,401,600,000 on June 22 2004, six days before the handover."

According to Stuart Bowen, the special inspector general for Iraq reconstruction, the $8.8bn funds to Iraqi ministries were disbursed "without assurance the monies were properly used or accounted for". But, according to the memorandum, "he now believes that the lack of accountability and transparency extended to the entire $20bn expended by the CPA".

So, the cash portion was "nearly $12 Billion" (more than $5.5 Billion and less than $20 Billion). But the amount that just disappeared "extended to the entire $20 billion".

That said, even $100 Billion to avoid the insurgency would have been a bargain. Giving $20 Billion to the wrong people probably did a lot to make it worse.

[Squink]

Originally Posted by shelbo

So, the cash portion was "nearly $12 Billion" (more than $5.5 Billion and less than $20 Billion). But the amount that just disappeared "extended to the entire $20 billion".

Fucking number keeps changing! Waxmann asked about 4 billion or so in cash at Bremer's inquisition. Then the news stories broke that down into shipments that added up to 5.5 billion. I see the WaPo article mentions 12 billion, $9 billion in cash. Whatever the amount actually is, it's a heck of a lot of money to lose track of.

[RTFirefly]

Originally Posted by mhendo

But one of the (alleged) premises behind America's presence in Iraq is that we are there to bring some accountability and integrity to the place. The notion that it's not our money so it doesn't matter what we do with it is just a cop-out. Having placed ourselves in control of their country, we have a responsibility to be as careful with their money as we would be with our own.

Damned straight. When we were running their country (which we were, lock, stock, and barrel, during the CPA period), we had a fiduciary responsibility to handle that money in a prudent manner.

Anyone has the right to blow their own money if they so choose. But if someone (us) accepts the legal responsibility for someone else (Iraq), which we did under UN Resolution 1483, they don't have the right to blow their money.

[Tapioca Dextrin]

Originally Posted by Squink

"Delay would have been demoralizing and unfair to the citizens of Iraq," Bremer said.

It would have been very unfair indeed to foist ol' Tom on the folks of Iraq

[Fish]

Gee, you'd almost think the Bush administration wants to fund the insurgency to prolong the war. If this ain't "aid and comfort to the enemy," what is?

[buttonjockey308]

Broken down over the entire population, (which as of 2006 was 26,783,383) and arbitrarily using the $9B figure, that's $337 dollars for every man, woman and child in Iraq. $337 dollars US goes a damn site farther there than here, but it's still not a whole lot.

All that said, how can anyone expect that Republicans, or anyone right of center for that matter could or would make an apology for this? It's seriously, insanely criminal.

Sure, someone's head will roll, but the milk is spilled. Time's now to throw open the doors and let the sunlight in.

The dems don't have the stones and all Pelosi can worry about is that her plane ain't big enough.

That's why people can't get outraged. Life's too short to outrage over something you have no power to actually change.

Fact is, neither party is any better than the other, just a different kind of corruption for a different reason.

No matter what either one does, soldiers die, our pockets get emptied, our morality and reason sink further into oblivion and our rights evaporate. Whether it's freedom to speak, or freedom to make and keep our own money.

That whole bogus thing about the Athenian Democracy that's been circulating, you know...

"The average age of the worlds greatest civilizations from the beginning of history, has been about 200 years. During those 200 years, these nations always progressed through the following sequence:

1. From Bondage to spiritual faith;
2. From spiritual faith to great courage;
3. From courage to liberty;
4. From liberty to abundance;
5. From abundance to complacency;
6. From complacency to apathy;
7. From apathy to dependence;
8. From dependence back into bondage.

Although no one's sure of the author, it makes a bit of sense to me, and it's also clear...

We're at step 7.

[Spezza]

Should this not be enough to ensure the man in charge is fired?

In any other company/organization/government the person in charge would be summarily fired. Why isn't Bush just tossed out? Why? Or was this whole thing Bush's idea. Wait! I can see it, there he was sitting in the Oval thinking with his advisors, "hmmm, what is a good way of pumping up the Iraqi economy? hmmm. Hey!, don't we have a bunch of Iraqi money? yeah? .... Jebus!, that much, eh? well, lets just give it back. That'll make their economy grow, it'll grow so good. oh yeah, this is going to be great. How are we going to give them their money back? hmmm, good question. What would be the easiest way? ... no, that'd take too long. .... no, that'd take way to much organizing. This needs to be fast. Lets do it like this...."

[buttonjockey308]

It's called plausable deniability Spezza. I'm not being a smart ass, but it's the same reason Bush is still walking around after Katrina. That's something that really mattered. This $20 Billion (or whatever) is a meaningless stack of paper, and franky, if New Orleans wasn't enough to motivate people to action over the ACTUAL horrible tragedy that took place there, what makes any thinking person believe that we're even going to remember this in six months?


Fact is, the unemployment rate is at 1.9 percent, almost negligable. Pretty much anyone who wants a job has one. We're all neck deep in debt that we'll never get out of, we're all dying of some type of heart disease, diabetes, hypertension, or food related obesity.
We're obsessing over iPods, the newest video game system, and most recently, the death of this poor young woman who's only talent in the world was looking pretty in front of the camera (God rest her soul ). So is it any wonder at all that we can't raise anymore than our own fuss about this?

[don't ask]

This documentary was shown on SBS TV in Australia a while ago. It pretty clearly explains where the money went and the process involved. There is a complete transcript of the show at the link.

[MelCthefirst]

As a non-American from a developed nation, I saw this on the news and was totally gob smacked. It was if it was a practical joke and yet not for one moment did I doubt it had happened. The things that have been going on during the Bush administration make the US a distructive joke to the rest of us in the free world and probably beyond.
When someone in another thread on the power of the religious right suggested a analogy between present day US and Roman dominated Europe being plunged into the dark ages due to the religious right - I couldn't help but think he may have had a point.

[Caridwen]

I wonder where this money came from-

"Three U.S. Army Reserve officers were indicted Wednesday, accused of taking part in a bid-rigging scam that steered millions of dollars for Iraq reconstruction projects to a contractor in exchange for cash, luxury cars and jewelry.

An American businessman in Romania was charged as the go-between for the military officers and the contractor. The husband of one of the reservists was accused of helping smuggle tens of thousands of dollars into the United States that the couple used to pay for a deck and a hot tub at their New Jersey house.

Together, the five used the $26 billion Iraqi rebuilding fund "as their own personal ATM machines," Deputy Attorney General Paul McNulty said in announcing the charges.

"These defendants actually took bricks of stolen cash ... and smuggled them out of Iraq and back to the United States for their own personal use," McNulty said."

http://www.businessweek.com/ap/finan.../D8N55APO1.htm

[Merijeek]

Originally Posted by shelbo

That said, even $100 Billion to avoid the insurgency would have been a bargain. Giving $20 Billion to the wrong people probably did a lot to make it worse.

So, since it's a safe assumption that the Dubya Admin managed to fund the insurgency through negligence...can we call them "traitors" yet?

-Joe

[EddyTeddyFreddy]

Originally Posted by MelCthefirst

When someone in another thread on the power of the religious right suggested a analogy between present day US and Roman dominated Europe being plunged into the dark ages due to the religious right - I couldn't help but think he may have had a point.

That was me, she said. Yup, we gots our bread and circuses, we do, and who but a tiny cadre of whiners gives a damn what the emperor and his court are really up to?

When I heard on the radio that Anna Nichol Smith (shit, I didn't need to look it up) had died, I knew it would lead all the evening news shows. Complete with lots of cleavage shots.

[elucidator]

Oh, c'mon, who hasn't lost a few billion in the sofa cushions from time to time....

[Stranger On A Train]

Joseph Heller was an optimist.

Stranger

[Leviosaurus]

Originally Posted by Squink

Fucking number keeps changing! Waxmann asked about 4 billion or so in cash at Bremer's inquisition. Then the news stories broke that down into shipments that added up to 5.5 billion. I see the WaPo article mentions 12 billion, $9 billion in cash. Whatever the amount actually is, it's a heck of a lot of money to lose track of.

Reuters has the straight dope on this. The breakdown is as follows:

- 4 Billion: the amount sent in cash to Iraq, in three payments
- 12 Billion: The total amount Bremer & co. dispursed to the Iraqis during Bremer's administration (including the above 4 billion)
- 8.8 Billion: The current amount unaccounted for from the original 12b.
- 2777 miles: The driving distance from New York to Los Angeles (according to google maps)
- 4 times: The number of times you could lay a trail of $100 bills end to end from New York to Los Angeles (and still have enough left over for a stop in Vegas,) if you had 12 billion dollars to do it with.

[Leviosaurus]

Oh yeah, and it's 363 tons, not 343. You misplaced 20 tons. (Ever thought of being an accountant for the Bush administration?)

[Squink]

Originally Posted by Leviosaurus

Oh yeah, and it's 363 tons, not 343. You misplaced 20 tons. (Ever thought of being an accountant for the Bush administration?)

Ever thought of reading the thread title before getting all prissy? The story's come out in multiple forms with multiple versions of dollar amounts which implies multiple possible weights.
BTW, that Reuters story with your 'straight dope':

The U.S. Federal Reserve sent record payouts of more than $4 billion in cash to Baghdad on giant pallets
...
On December 12, 2003, $1.5 billion was shipped to Iraq, initially "the largest pay out of U.S. currency in Fed history," according to an e-mail cited by committee members.

It was followed by more than $2.4 billion on June 22, 2004, and $1.6 billion three days later. The CPA turned over sovereignty on June 28.

1.5 + 2.4 + 1.6 = 5.5, not the 4 billion they lead the story with. How much does Reuters $1.5 billion 'rounding error' weigh?

[Uzi]

Putting on my Amazing Karnak hat, I predict there will be an action movie that involves the hijacking of a plane carrying billions of dollars worth of $100 bills in a very short period of time. It will probably be called 'Under Siege 3: Iraqi clusterfuck', or some such.

[elucidator]

So if the airplane were losing altitude over Baghdad, and had to lose some weight, and they pushed a pallet out of the plane at 1,025 feet, and it accelerates at thirtytwo feet per second squared on top of Achmed Sixpack, he would be one of the worlds ten richest men for .0275 seconds, and then about a hundred fifty pounds of hamburger jello spread out over a radius 157.65 meters. Approximately.

[Uzi]

Originally Posted by elucidator

So if the airplane were losing altitude over Baghdad, and had to lose some weight, and they pushed a pallet out of the plane at 1,025 feet, and it accelerates at thirtytwo feet per second squared on top of Achmed Sixpack, he would be one of the worlds ten richest men for .0275 seconds, and then about a hundred fifty pounds of hamburger jello spread out over a radius 157.65 meters. Approximately.

See? The movie writes itself!

[Little Plastic Ninja]

I swear I feel like crying.

Billions of dollars. Billions. Billions of dollars that could have gone to making Iraq a liveable place for its people.

You know, I don't think TPTB ever had the inclination to do anything other than utterly destroy that country -- for that matter, to destroy every country in the Middle East. A kindergartener could run this shit better.

[silenus]

Ah, but kindergarteners have something the Bush Administration doesn't have.



Adult Supervision.

[shelbo]

Originally Posted by Leviosaurus

Oh yeah, and it's 363 tons, not 343. You misplaced 20 tons. (Ever thought of being an accountant for the Bush administration?)

Shhh. . . It's in my garage. That's why my cars are out on the street.