Might Dr. Javier Solana be THE anti-Christ?

[GuyNblueJeans]

A little while ago I was listening to the radio program Coast to Coast (which I recorded Friday night), and some fellow from Washington State called in ("John") during the open-phone segment of the show and gave some reasons why he and many other "End Time" followers believe that Javier Solana might be the dreaded anti-Christ that's mentioned in the Bible's Book of Revelation.

Not knowing anything about the man, I Googled and YouTubed him and was struck by the fact that there indeed are some curious things about him. One of the things I find most troubling is the fact that as Secretary General of the WEU, Assembly of Recommendation #666 -- granted to himself ("with the blessings of those around him," according to the caller) gives him "emergency power" of the 10 nations he controls. (I seem to recall that Hitler did something like that ... .)

The caller stated that the 666 name of the recommendation was his own choice. And it seems -- as the Bible predicted -- he's been very involved (since '95, I think) in going around brokering peace in the Middle East, as well as other places.

Like I said, I know pretty much nothing about the man but was wondering if any of you have heard similar rumors? (Looking at vids and pics, he seems like a harmless enough fellow to me.)

All in all, it seems fair to say that we live in truly frightening times, as we see all around us signs that these indeed are the "End Times" as foretold in the Bible. (The monitoring cameras and satellites and chip implants, etc., should work well as technological teeth to make it all nicely work ... acting as steel jaws clamping down to seperate the goats from the sheep.)

P.S. Sorry if this question might have been posted before.

[Guinastasia]

I thought Thomas Kinkade was the anti-Christ?

[Duck Duck Goose]

Originally Posted by GuyNblueJeans

gave some reasons why he and many other "End Time" followers believe that Javier Solana might be the dreaded anti-Christ that's mentioned in the Bible's Book of Revelation

Actually, there's one humongous reason why this guy isn't the Anti-christ that's mentioned in the Book of Revelation: there is no Anti-Christ mentioned in the book of Revelation.

There's a Beast, and a Great Whore, but no Anti-Christ. See for yourself. The only time an "Antichrist" is mentioned is in 1 and 2 John, and is a generic warning for the believers, not a specific prediction about the End Times.

[Q.E.D.]

There's another reason, too. There's no god, no Christ, no Satan and the Bible is a book chock full of bullshit and made-up stories.

[GuyNblueJeans]

Originally Posted by Duck Duck Goose

Actually, there's one humongous reason why this guy isn't the Anti-christ that's mentioned in the Book of Revelation: there is no Anti-Christ mentioned in the book of Revelation.

There's a Beast, and a Great Whore, but no Anti-Christ. See for yourself. The only time an "Antichrist" is mentioned is in 1 and 2 John, and is a generic warning for the believers, not a specific prediction about the End Times.

Ouch! I gotta be more wary of technicalities!

Thanks.

[GuyNblueJeans]

Originally Posted by Q.E.D.

There's another reason, too. There's no god, no Christ, no Satan and the Bible is a book chock full of bullshit and made-up stories.

May I quote you on that when you and your loved ones are marched into a processing center and asked to make a choice?

[Q.E.D.]

Originally Posted by GuyNblueJeans

May I quote you on that when you and your loved ones are marched into a processing center and asked to make a choice?

Yes. We won't be there and neither will you.

[rowrrbazzle]

Javier - 6 letters.
Solana - 6 letters.
Madariaga - 9 letters.

Nope.

[GuyNblueJeans]

Originally Posted by rowrrbazzle

Javier - 6 letters.
Solana - 6 letters.
Madariaga - 9 letters.

Nope.

Actually -- and (hopefully) I may well be wrong on this -- I think he tends to go by D-O-C-T-O-R Javier Solana.

[Little Nemo]

Fortunately, the Anti-Christ's powers are declining. Back in the nineties, Solana was Secretary General of NATO so he controlled eighteen countries including the United States. Now, as Secretary General of the Western European Union, he's down to only the ten nations and America is free of the Dark One's grip.

[GuyNblueJeans]

Originally Posted by Q.E.D.

Yes. We won't be there and neither will you.

I sincerely hope you're right.

I'd feel better if you used your fine mind and explain away for me how there's nothing to be concerned about in view of what the Bible says and some of the things I've brought up here regarding the person in question. Can you please try (so I can share in your confident certainty)?

[GuyNblueJeans]

Originally Posted by Little Nemo

Fortunately, the Anti-Christ's powers are declining. Back in the nineties, Solana was Secretary General of NATO so he controlled eighteen countries including the United States. Now, as Secretary General of the Western European Union, he's down to only the ten nations and America is free of the Dark One's grip.

Actually, if I'm not mistaken, 10 nations fit much better than 19 with respect to Biblical prophecies.

I truly find it strange that so many folks scoff at this sort of thing; especially since we live in the world that we live in, where utterly horrible things happen all the time and that 6-billion of us are all locked up in this place and have really little knowledge of why we're all going through this thing called life. It seems so strange to not even care.

[Ferret Herder]

For starters, the story of the Beast and 666 seems to be an allegory for Nero and Rome.

[Boyo Jim]

First, he did not choose the number 666, there were a set of security recommendations in sequence, note Replies of the Council to Recommendations 665-673 and Resolution 103.

Second, he controls no countries at all. He is theSecretary General of the WEU, and claiming he controls its members is akin to claiming Kofi Annan controlled the world from his post at the UN.

3rd, Recommendation 666 gave no one any power at all -- please note the word "recommendation". If you don't know what the means, go look it up, but is a far cry from a grant of any power to any person or organization.

4th, here, in total (less some preliminary text about why these recommendations are being made) is Recommendation 666:

on the consequences of including certain functions of WEU
in the European Union - reply to the annual report of the Council...

RECOMMENDS THAT THE COUNCIL


Take the measures necessary for WEU to ensure that the collective defence commitment provided for in Article V of the modified Brussels Treaty is effectively maintained, taking account of the recent decisions concerning the European Security and Defence Policy;

Pursue its process of informal reflection on Security and Defence Europe and include the parliamentary dimension within it on the basis of the proposals contained in Assembly Recommendation 664;

Propose to the European Union that, on the basis of the work undertaken by the Portuguese presidency and joint proposals put forward by Britain and France, it establish a Consultative Council for the CESDP bringing together European Union member states, EU applicant countries and non-EU European members of NATO, which would meet at least twice a year at ministerial level;

Ensure, while respecting the European Union's decision-making autonomy, that the delegations of the non-EU European members of NATO and of the EU applicant countries have participation rights in the Consultative Council for the CESDP at least equivalent to those they have acquired in the WEU Council as associate members and associate partners;

Propose to the European Council that the European Union sign a protocol to be appended to the Treaty on European Union, stipulating that the Consultative Council for the CESDP - without prejudice to the provisions of Articles 4 and 21 - shall make an annual report on those of its activities under the CFSP which have defence implications, to the European Security and Defence Assembly (ESDA) composed of representatives of the fifteen parliaments of the signatory states of the Treaty on European Union, representatives of the fifteen parliaments of the EU applicant countries and the non-EU European members of NATO, and representatives of the European Parliament;

Ensure that the delegations of the non-EU European members of NATO and of the EU applicant countries have participation rights in the European Security and Defence Assembly that are at least equivalent to those they have acquired in the WEU Assembly as associate members and associate partners;

Do what is necessary to ensure that during the transitional period WEU is in a position to respond more effectively to any requests from the European Union to develop and implement actions of the Union, anticipating them in so far as is possible;

Assist the European Union in framing its "headline goal" of deploying and sustaining a European force capable of carrying out the full range of Petersberg missions, on the basis of the work done by WEU, in relation especially to the illustrative Petersberg mission profiles;

Make public opinion and the political authorities in the member states aware of the need for additional funding to achieve the "headline goal", in particular to guarantee that the said European force is militarily self-sufficient and has the necessary capability to carry out the proposed missions;

Ensure that the function WEU currently fulfils as an essential element of the European Security and Defence Identity (ESDI) within the Atlantic Alliance is in future fulfilled by the European Union's CESDP;

Support efforts to set up flexible forms of closer cooperation in the framework of the CFSP and CESDP that are not strictly limited to European Union member states;

Support proposals for the WEU Secretary-General and CFSP High Representative to preside over the PSC and civilian crisis-management machinery and give him powers to convene the Council of the European Union in the event of an emergency;

Propose to the European Union that it base its relationship with NATO on a provision of the Treaty on European Union comparable with that of Article IV of the modified Brussels Treaty;

Prepare and transmit to the European Union an in-depth assessment of its experience in the field of crisis management and propose to the Union that it base its new responsibilities in this area on a new provision of the Treaty on European Union drawing on Article VIII.3 of the modified Brussels Treaty;

Assist the European Union in coordinating civilian and military crisis management using the CIMIC concept as a basis and inform the Assembly about this concept;

Carry out an audit of those areas of the modified Brussels Treaty not transferred to the European Union and a study of the resultant consequences for WEU as an Organisation;

Give the Assembly an indication of the repercussions the transfer of certain WEU functions to the EU will have for the annual report the Council has to make to the Assembly, pursuant to Article IX of the modified Brussels Treaty;

Strengthen and extend the activities of the Torrejón Satellite Centre, taking into account all the implications of its transfer to the European Union, including the fact that it works in a configuration of 16 countries, and inform the Assembly of its findings before taking any decision on such a transfer;

Ensure that the WEU Institute for Security Studies can continue its activities in the service of WEU and the European Union;

From now on, give the National Armaments Directors, and WEAG and WEAO which the Council has decided should for the time being remain WEU's responsibility, more specific guidance and a more positive political impetus, so as to strengthen European cooperation in this connection, and consult the Assembly before taking any decision on the future tasks and institutional position of such organisations;

Take a decision on the future of the Transatlantic Forum, ensuring that the European Union is able to take advantage of the Forum's acquis to help it organise security cooperation with the transatlantic allies:

Ensure that all WEU bodies for a time continue their dialogue with Russia and Ukraine and consider how the acquis represented by that dialogue can be preserved if transferred to the European Union, taking account in particular of the need for continuity of the formal relations the WEU Assembly has established with both chambers of the Russian Parliament;

Continue its dialogue with the southern Mediterranean countries and consult the Assembly before taking any decision as to the future of that dialogue;

Oppose any solution worked out within the European Union framework that seeks to reduce associate member and associate partner participation rights in missions whose implementation is to be transferred to the European Union;

Encourage the observer countries to commit themselves fully and without reservation to all aspects of the European Security and Defence Policy and invite their parliaments to send full delegations to the Assembly's meetings and sessions as the Assembly invites them so to do in Order 112;

Propose to the European Union General Affairs Council that it hold a meeting with the Assembly's Presidential Committee as soon as possible.

Relative to Solana's position, the recommendation is to

Support proposals for the WEU Secretary-General and CFSP High Representative to preside over the PSC and civilian crisis-management machinery and give him powers to convene the Council of the European Union in the event of an emergency;

That is all.

[GuyNblueJeans]

Originally Posted by Ferret Herder

For starters, the story of the Beast and 666 seems to be an allegory for Nero and Rome.

I'm aware of this and how it appears to disprove the concerns that I bring up. Nevertheless, it still could be that that was wrong and these other things are right, no?

[GuyNblueJeans]

Boyo -- Thanks for the info and link.

I'm a janitor by trade, not an international lawyer; and yet something smells funny.

If you type in the YouTube seach box "sorry you missed the rapture", you'll see some stuff there that claims a lot of things that say we should all keep our eyes on this guy Solana. I can only hope that you're right and that those other folks are a bunch of nutjobs. I guess time and events will tell.

Again, Thanks Much for taking the time to go through so much trouble. I'll look at it again (until my brain starts cramping up).

[Malodorous]

Hmm...I can kinda see the EU becoming the new UN in Christian Apocalyptic End Time fantasies. It's growing, secular, foreign, related to Globalization, and if they let Turkey in, will contain a bunch of Muslims.

I predict more theories like this in the years to come.

[jayjay]

Originally Posted by GuyNblueJeans

I truly find it strange that so many folks scoff at this sort of thing; especially since we live in the world that we live in, where utterly horrible things happen all the time and that 6-billion of us are all locked up in this place and have really little knowledge of why we're all going through this thing called life. It seems so strange to not even care.

Humanity has "lived in the world that we live in" for eons. Today's global situation is no more dire than the global situation of 200 years ago, or 1000 years ago, or 10,000 years ago. It only seems that way to us because we're actually HERE. In actuality, people in first- and second-world nations today are generally living the good life compared to their counterparts of 500 years ago. To somehow believe that the world is going to hell in a handbasket today is to ignore the lessons of history.

[GuyNblueJeans]

Originally Posted by Malodorous

Hmm...I can kinda see the EU becoming the new UN in Christian Apocalyptic End Time fantasies. It's growing, secular, foreign, related to Globalization, and if they let Turkey in, will contain a bunch of Muslims.

I predict more theories like this in the years to come.

When I was around 4 I saw Jesus in the sky. You can mock and laugh, but it remains a fact.

[jayjay]

Originally Posted by GuyNblueJeans

When I was around 4 I saw Jesus in the sky. You can mock and laugh, but it remains a fact.

When I was 3 I saw the Virgin Mary standing over my bed. Of course, I was drugged up in preparation for a tonsillectomy and the Blessed Mother was actually a nurse-nun at the Catholic hospital I was at, but that's beside the point.

[GuyNblueJeans]

Originally Posted by jayjay

Humanity has "lived in the world that we live in" for eons. Today's global situation is no more dire than the global situation of 200 years ago, or 1000 years ago, or 10,000 years ago. It only seems that way to us because we're actually HERE. In actuality, people in first- and second-world nations today are generally living the good life compared to their counterparts of 500 years ago. To somehow believe that the world is going to hell in a handbasket today is to ignore the lessons of history.

I beg to differ. On every level things are different and more sinister than they've ever been. And just because the things discussed in this thread haven't occured yet doesn't mean that they won't.

Only a blind person could look at this world and what's going on ... and say, "Don't worry, everything's fine."

[GuyNblueJeans]

Originally Posted by jayjay

When I was 3 I saw the Virgin Mary standing over my bed. Of course, I was drugged up in preparation for a tonsillectomy and the Blessed Mother was actually a nurse-nun at the Catholic hospital I was at, but that's beside the point.

I wasn't drugged up.

[Nava]

Originally Posted by GuyNblueJeans

Actually -- and (hopefully) I may well be wrong on this -- I think he tends to go by D-O-C-T-O-R Javier Solana.

Not in Spain, where Doctor is reserved for people who usually don't have a doctorate... medics.

[MEBuckner]

Originally Posted by GuyNblueJeans

I truly find it strange that so many folks scoff at this sort of thing; especially since we live in the world that we live in, where utterly horrible things happen all the time and that 6-billion of us are all locked up in this place and have really little knowledge of why we're all going through this thing called life. It seems so strange to not even care.

Well, granted, we're all doomed; still, it seems strange that so many folks don't even wish to die an honorable death on the field of battle so that they can fight side by side with the Gods and heroes at the End of Days.

The reality, though, is that in these decadent times most people you see willl probably end up as Nidhogg-chow and they don't even seem to care.

[Malodorous]

Random nitpick:

Originally Posted by jayjay

Humanity has "lived in the world that we live in" for eons.

Less then one Eon, actually. At least as the word is usually defined.

Originally Posted by OP

You can mock and laugh, but it remains a fact.

Not really mocking, just pointing out that big international organizations seem to be a target for these kind of theories, and that with the growing prominence of the EU, I bet it will surpass the UN as the most common "tool of the anti-christ" in the near future.

[Czarcasm]

Originally Posted by GuyNblueJeans

When I was around 4 I saw Jesus in the sky. You can mock and laugh, but it remains a fact.

I looked up "fact" in the dictionary, and none of the definitions say: "Early childhood memory involving mystical interpretations recalled many years later."
Would you mind describing him to us?

[GuyNblueJeans]

In the world there almost seems to be a conspiracy against sincerity.

[FriarTed]

One thing I will grant the Rapturists- they foretold three things even as early as the 1900's, pre-WWII: the restoration of Israel, the unification of Europe, and
the rise of Russia as an anti-Israel super-power. That was why I was a Rapturist from 1975-1985, then I read various other interpretations that also made sense (such as the preterist one) and also concluded that Christ had a lot more work for His people to do before His return.

It's a serious thing to accuse someone of being an anti-Christ or the Beast (I do think "the Anti-Christ" is a valid title for the Beast even though the Bible doesn't use the word even as I think "the Trinity" is a valid term for the NT concept of God, altho it also is not used in the Bible), however, there have been and will be many Beastly authorities & Harlot religions that try to distort or destroy our Christian faith, and every day that goes by without Christ returning, millions of people die to face Him, so the principles of The Revelation are always relevant.

[Czarcasm]

Originally Posted by GuyNblueJeans

In the world there almost seems to be a conspiracy against sincerity.

Sincerity without evidence is delusion.

[jayjay]

Originally Posted by GuyNblueJeans

In the world there almost seems to be a conspiracy against sincerity.

No. There's no conspiracy here at the SDMB. There's an entirely open bias against religious woowooery, though.

The Rapture/Tribulation is not going to happen. I will gladly bet you any amount of money you wish to that it will not happen. It's an entirely specious extrapolation of various Biblical passages that was fomented in the late 19th Century.

Even if we were to, for the sake of argument, acknowledge the possibility of such a thing happening, the Bible itself argues against anyone being able to "prepare" for it in any way outside of simply becoming a born-again Christian. Won't God come as "a thief in the night?" Won't the bridesmaids be taken by surprise? Isn't it true that no one will know the day or the time except for God? So why does anyone actually put any stock into these "signs", most of which have been present in every decade experienced by humanity since...well, since ever?

The only place where the "sinister" nature of current events exists is in your mind and those of your fellow Rapture-believers. There is nothing different or sinister about events in the world today. We just let our egos believe that today is special because WE'RE in it.

[GuyNblueJeans]

Originally Posted by Czarcasm

I looked up "fact" in the dictionary, and none of the definitions say: "Early childhood memory involving mystical interpretations recalled many years later."
Would you mind describing him to us?

Caught on another technicality, darn!

I was going to parenthetically add "with me," but thought I could escape such scrutiny as I seem to be overdue for a win around here.

One shouldn't dismiss out of hand what comes out of the mouths of little children. They're often more honest than the grownups.

I'd relate my experience but the hardened skeptics are circling like sharks around a bleeding tuna, thus they'd only ridicule me. Maybe some other time I'll tell about that particular event.

[jayjay]

Isn't it your duty as a Christian to provide your testimony regardless of threat of pain or death, let alone threat of ridicule?

[GuyNblueJeans]

Originally Posted by Malodorous

Random nitpick:


Less then one Eon, actually. At least as the word is usually defined.



Not really mocking, just pointing out that big international organizations seem to be a target for these kind of theories, and that with the growing prominence of the EU, I bet it will surpass the UN as the most common "tool of the anti-christ" in the near future.

I was referring to my having seen Jesus in the sky when I was little.

[Boyo Jim]

Originally Posted by Czarcasm

Sincerity without evidence is delusion.

I don't buy this. I do buy that belief without evidence is delusional.

Like, I sincerly want to have a go at this hot chick I met at a wedding reception last night. But believeing I have a real shot at it is pretty surely a delusion -- but a nice one.

[Qadgop the Mercotan]

Originally Posted by GuyNblueJeans

I was referring to my having seen Jesus in the sky when I was little.

How did you know it was Jesus? Did he look just like he does in his paintings?

[GuyNblueJeans]

Originally Posted by Czarcasm

Sincerity without evidence is delusion.

So insincerity with evidence is what, illusion?

[Little Nemo]

GuyNblueJeans, there have always been people who have felt that their era was "the one" - the most significant period in human history. People in the 1930's thought Hitler was the Anti-Christ. In the 1920's, it was the Lenin. In the 1910's, it was Kaiser Wilhelm. Or Napoleon or Robespierre or Mehmed II or Genghis Khan or Attila or any of a hundred other figures. But history has outlasted every one of them and civilization has survived so far. The odds are that in a hundred years, Javier Solana will have been forgotten and some people will have picked some new figure of their era that they will proclaim is the beast. Some people can't seem to grasp the difference in scale between themselves and humanity. Just because something is a major event in their life doesn't make it a major event for humanity.

[Czarcasm]

Originally Posted by GuyNblueJeans

So insincerity with evidence is what, illusion?

Isn't it disappointing when life doesn't work like a Chick Tract?

[GuyNblueJeans]

Originally Posted by jayjay

Isn't it your duty as a Christian to provide your testimony regardless of threat of pain or death, let alone threat of ridicule?

Okay, you win.

It was like this ... I was sleeping in the backseat of the car my father was driving while his lady-friend was in the front with him and my brother was in the back, with me.

I woke up and looked out the window and saw Him in the clouds over a treeline looking at me. I then pointed and said to the others, "There's the man from the river."

The others looked at me and at each other; and I then looked back out and saw Jesus disappear into thin air.

Yes; I do vaguely seem to recall that He looked very much the way one sees Him in the pictures -- with a beard and robe.

[Boyo Jim]

Originally Posted by jayjay

Isn't it your duty as a Christian to provide your testimony regardless of threat of pain or death, let alone threat of ridicule?

Oh, Jeez, reminding people of their christian duty causes pretty much nothing but trouble.

[Czarcasm]

Originally Posted by GuyNblueJeans

Okay, you win.

It was like this ... I was sleeping in the backseat of the car my father was driving while his lady-friend was in the front with him and my brother was in the back, with me.

I woke up and looked out the window and saw Him in the clouds over a treeline looking at me. I then pointed and said to the others, "There's the man from the river."

The others looked at me and at each other; and I then looked back out and saw Jesus disappear into thin air.

Yes; I do vaguely seem to recall that He looked very much the way one sees Him in the pictures -- with a beard and robe.

An early memory recalled many years later of a half-awake child who says things that even Reader's Digest wouldn't quote with a straight face is something you define as fact?

[Qadgop the Mercotan]

Originally Posted by GuyNblueJeans

Yes; I do vaguely seem to recall that He looked very much the way one sees Him in the pictures -- with a beard and robe.

You do realize that noone who ever looked on Jesus during his lifetime left a description or a drawing regarding what he looked like?

[GuyNblueJeans]

Originally Posted by Little Nemo

GuyNblueJeans, there have always been people who have felt that their era was "the one" - the most significant period in human history. People in the 1930's thought Hitler was the Anti-Christ. In the 1920's, it was the Lenin. In the 1910's, it was Kaiser Wilhelm. Or Napoleon or Robespierre or Mehmed II or Genghis Khan or Attila or any of a hundred other figures. But history has outlasted every one of them and civilization has survived so far. The odds are that in a hundred years, Javier Solana will have been forgotten and some people will have picked some new figure of their era that they will proclaim is the beast. Some people can't seem to grasp the difference in scale between themselves and humanity. Just because something is a major event in their life doesn't make it a major event for humanity.

With all due respect, please site for me when there was a time when there were so many atomic bombs floating around ... and when there was the type of high-tech tracking and monitoring devices along with eyes in the sky ... and video cameras popping up like mushrooms ... and people having access to hardcore porn via computers in their livingrooms?

I submit to you that these times are unlike any other times in human history.

[Czarcasm]

Originally Posted by GuyNblueJeans

With all due respect, please site for me when there was a time when there were so many atomic bombs floating around ... and when there was the type of high-tech tracking and monitoring devices along with eyes in the sky ... and video cameras popping up like mushrooms ... and people having access to hardcore porn via computers in their livingrooms?

I submit to you that these times are unlike any other times in human history.

Show me where any of these items are mentioned in the Bible.

[zelie zelerton]

Aww c'mon guys. Give him a break. I used to be able to fly when I was a kid - not inconceivable that he could see faces in clouds.

[GuyNblueJeans]

Originally Posted by Czarcasm

An early memory recalled many years later of a half-awake child who says things that even Reader's Digest wouldn't quote with a straight face is something you define as fact?

There are objective facts and subjective facts. Please see my comment about my saying that I should have parenthetically added "to me."

I never said that I could transport anyone back in time and seat themselves in my head to experience the event for themselves. I only said what happened, and how far back in time it was is neither here nor there as far as I'm concerned; same for what the people at Reader's Digest may think, it doesn't matter to me. (But if they should ask, I'll certainly be honest with them as I've been with you.)

Why are you trying so hard to nit-pick at everything I say? Wouldn't you have been smarter to have asked something like, "Why would Jesus appear like that to you?" Or, "Have you had any other encounters with Jesus since then?" Or, "Why did you call Him the man from the river?" Or... well, you get the point.

[Ferret Herder]

What I don't get is why you seem troubled by this. If it's true, shouldn't it be a good sign? Impending Judgement Day and all of that?

[untimelysmile]

Originally Posted by Little Nemo

GuyNblueJeans, there have always been people who have felt that their era was "the one" - the most significant period in human history. People in the 1930's thought Hitler was the Anti-Christ. In the 1920's, it was the Lenin. In the 1910's, it was Kaiser Wilhelm. Or Napoleon or Robespierre or Mehmed II or Genghis Khan or Attila or any of a hundred other figures. But history has outlasted every one of them and civilization has survived so far. The odds are that in a hundred years, Javier Solana will have been forgotten and some people will have picked some new figure of their era that they will proclaim is the beast. Some people can't seem to grasp the difference in scale between themselves and humanity. Just because something is a major event in their life doesn't make it a major event for humanity.

I'll second this, and I'll add= what does your seeing Jesus have to do with Solana being the anti-christ, anyway? This thread has been derailed, yes?

I always get a thrill out of discussing stuff like the end of times and the new antichrist and so on with my friends, because urban legends are exciting.

Not real, but entertaining.

[Revenant Threshold]

Originally Posted by GuyNblueJeans

Why are you trying so hard to nit-pick at everything I say? Wouldn't you have been smarter to have asked something like, "Why would Jesus appear like that to you?" Or, "Have you had any other encounters with Jesus since then?" Or, "Why did you call Him the man from the river?" Or... well, you get the point.

Those are also nitpicks, at least to the extent that "How do you know you weren't asleep?" is a nitpick. Really it seems your objection is "Stop asking questions that might make me wrong, but ask questions assuming I am perfectly correct". It seems a bit dishonest to frame the matter as one of nitpicking vs. reasonable questions when it's just one of you not wanting questions you dislike.

Out of interest, though, ok. Why would Jesus appear like that to you, Have you had any other encounters with Jesus since then, Why did you call him the man from the river?

[GuyNblueJeans]

Originally Posted by Czarcasm

Show me where any of these items are mentioned in the Bible.

Somewhere in Revelation, and I think other places in the Bible, too, it says something about people not being able to buy or sell unless they have the number of the Beast. The tech things I mentioned are up and running, including the scanners in the grocery stores.

It just seems (to me) like these things are just the sort of tools that would be needed to take control of the world as noted in the Bible. And for myself personally, I am mindful of what I was told during my UFO encounter (which I wrote about in this place some months back) in which I was told, "the entire North American continent is becoming mechanized."