I am curious. I am sure you have all heard about the rapture, second coming, the Anti Christ, one world government, one world currency, the mark of the beast and judgement.
I know you do not believe in God or any of these things so we won’t debate that. But what if all that stuff started happening. And the anti christ wanted you to take his mark(probably a chip put under the skin) before you buy or sell anything(if you do not have the mark you would probably starve). Knowing that the Bible says your fate(Hell being your final destination) is sealed if you take that mark. Would you take the mark knowing you would go to Hell or would you come to Christ then knowing the Bible is true and God is real?
And before you answer really think this through if this stuff comes true what would you do? This is your soul we are talking about here.
Oh, well, yeah—if all that stuff actually started HAPPENING, I wouldn’t be an idiot about it. I’ve always admitted that I may be wrong and you may be right (and I even got a Christian to admit he may be wrong here on the Board, too!).
But since all that ain’t gonna happen, it’s sorta academic . . .
You know, that is one thing I don’t get about modern fundamentalist eschatology (or technically, pre-tribulationist, pre-millennialist eschatology). As I understand it, even after the Rapture, it’s not too late to repent. So–once all the Christians suddently vanish into thin air, won’t everyone repent? That’s certainly my plan. Of course, I guess it would be more pleasant to just be whisked away before all the rains of blood and horrible scorpion-like things and evil world dictators and so forth. But, all that’s only supposed to last for seven years or something, and then, if you haven’t been stupid enough to side with Satan, you get to go to heaven. Or else you get to live during the Millennial Kingdom on Earth–and then after a thousand years of peace and Jesus himself running things, there’s another revolt, and that’s the final, Final Battle. (Armaggedon II: The Return of the Beast) At least, I gather that’s the idea–I’ve never really been able to follow the “plot” (to use the term very loosely) of the Book of Revelation.
Somehow this seems kind of like Pascal’s Wager for atheists…
P.S. Damn–I see someone’s already beat me to the punch…I was going to say “I also plan to stand together with the Aesir against the Giants come Ragnarok. I know our side will lose, but sometimes a man’s got to stand for what’s right.”
Seconding Eve, here. But I’m not going to hold my breath waiting for the signs that you posited. And I think that 2nd Law has a good point in wondering what you would do if all hell (heh) broke loose, and led to the inescapable conclusion that Odin is the man.
Well, if the Book of Revelation started happening, it would be rational to repent and join the side of the Lord.
My question to Wildest Bill is, why is eschatology so important to you? After all, Jesus never spent much time talking about the Day of Judgement. He mostly talked about the need to repent, to believe in God, and to make faith visible by doing good works(loving thy enemy and so on.) If you Jeezers would spend more time being the salt of the earth instead of being a pain in the tuchus, you’d probably score a lot more converts.
“And what would you do if Odin asked you to help him battle the frost giants?”
—I’d ask for mittens, of course. Sounds like cold work.
Bill—I come from a Jewish family (I was named after my great-grandmother, Eva). Very non-religious, though, so we just think of ourselves as “culturally Jewish.”
I have a question for you, as I’m not well-versed (literally!) on this. What would happen to me if I DID accept Satan’s “mark?” I take it it would not be pleasant?
Actually, a pretty good case can be made that Jesus was overwhelmingly concerned with eschatology…it’s just that his particular eschatology was that the world was going to end in the 1st Century C.E. (ultra-pre-millennialism, I guess you could call it).
Of course, I should also point out that I’m not exactly massive-thewed Barbarian Warrior material here anyway. I can just see it now: Earth is plunged into the gloomy depths of Fimbulwinter, the Gods and the Giants are preparing for Ragnarok, the Final Conflict which will destroy them all and shake the World-Tree Yggdrasil to its very roots…and I’m the last guy picked. “Uh…you guys can have him.” “No, no, Odin, you get to pick last, you have to take him.” “Well…maybe he could fight for both sides. That would be fair. That way nobody’s stuck with him for the entire battle.”
Wow, guess all that reading of the bible didn’t leave time for classical mythology. Odin is the supreme god in Norse mythology, blah blah, I won’t reiterate what can be easily found on the internet
The frost giants were pretty much the enemy of the Norse gods, excepting a few (Loki, who was allied with them).
Wildest Bill, in Norse mythology, Odin was the king of the gods. Think of a Scandinavian Zeus. Eve, you’d be welcome to my mittens during Ragnarok.
As for your question, which I would phrase “if someone who was obviously the anti-christ asked me to do something that would result in your spending eternity burning in hellfire, would you do it?” I’m pretty sure the answer would be “No”. Being an atheist does not equal being a moron.
However, I do have a social security number, and having it doesn’t make me worry about a one-world order, ZOG, the anti-christ, the UN, the Illuminati, or the Trilateral Commission.
You know that would be the rational thing to do.Thanks for your answer. But do you know alot of people will still take the mark go figure.
I am not sure what that word(eschatology I even looked it up) means but if it means prophesesy it has always facinated me especially with so many Bible prophesies coming true.
[quoteAfter all, Jesus never spent much time talking about the Day of Judgement. He mostly talked about the need to repent, to believe in God, and to make faith visible by doing good works(loving thy enemy and so on[/quote]
Yes I agree but he did talk about the end so is it wrong for me to? I also believe we are getting closer to the end and sometimes so why not discuss it?
I don’t mean to be a pain in the tuchus(even though my wife thinks I am sometime ) and you are right we should spend more time being the salt of the earth. But everybody got different styles and some people want more proof. And if all this does happen and you are still not saved I just wanted think about it a head of time.
The Gospels only devote a few verses to the Last Days. All of Jesus’s parables deal with the here and now, how people should treat one another, and so on. I’d urge to Wildest Bill to re-read Matthew 25 and see what happens to folks who
talk about God but neglect action.
You guys can fight the frost giants, i’ll hang back, play catch with Fenris after he’s finished eating the sun, and see if I can pitch a little woo with some of those hot warriors in Valhalla.
The cool thing about Ragnarok and Fimbulwinter is there’ll be a Wagner soundtrack.
If the reason I come to Christ is because Nicky Carpathia wants to stick a chip in my hand and make me pledge allegiance to Satan, how does that make me any different from a Christian whose rationale for belief is Pascal’s Wager? In both cases, you’re not acting out of faith but self-interest, out of fear of Hell and not love of God.
Frankly, if going to heaven means having to associate with guys I could beat at Scrabble without even using a triple word score, I’ll pass. (You don’t know the meaning of eschatology? You never heard of Odin?)
Look at the people going to heaven: James Dobson, Jerry Falwell, Oral Roberts, Wildest Bill…
Look at the people going to Hell: Jean Genet, Oscar Wilde,
all the pre-Christian philosophers, Dorothy Parker, Marcel Proust… Who would you rather spend eternity with?
You know there’s no library in heaven, no beer, no cable, and no sex, plus it will be chockful of Fundies, unless South Park is right and the correct answer is the Mormons(still pretty grim).
I guess I’m too much of a snob to spend eternity with a bunch of uneducated, psalm-singing, polyester-wearing Jeezers.
Oh, probably.
Hey, I’ve got a Social Security number and everything I buy has UPC codes- both of those were bandied about as “Marks of the Beast”, but I haven’t seen the Rapture come yet. When they start doing implants that allow you to keep all debit card records on a microchip in your palm, I’ll probably agree to get one (assuming the price is cheap enough) if it seems sufficiently cool and useful. And I’ll ignore all of the “Mark of the Best” talk because people have been saying that Armageddon and the Rapture is just around the corner since AD 63, and I don’t see any reason why today they’d be right.
Now, should there come unto us a world leader who performs miracles, unifies all religions into a single entity, and begins forcing all people to wear ID chips embedded in their skulls and hands while systematically destroying all reasons for morality- hey, I’ll go up in the hills and fight with ya. But I doubt that Kofi Annon really has that much power right now, and while the Pope and the Lutherans are starting to get together, there’s a long way to go before Christians and Hindus decide they’re basically the same thing.
) and you are right we should spend more time being the salt of the earth. But everybody got different styles and some people want more proof. And if all this does happen and you are still not saved I just wanted think about it a head of time.